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Three Holy Kings banned from nativity scene in church

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Rumpel

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Three Holy Kings banned from nativity scene in church


That is the news:

German church wants black image of three kings banned for ‘racist caricature’

In Germany, a fuss arose after it became known that the Ulm cathedral wants to ban an artwork of the three kings. According to a spokesman for the church, the caricatural image with large lips and large gold rings no longer fits the contemporary spirit of the times.


The Ulm cathedral, the largest Protestant church in Germany, wants to keep up with the times, the board says. In the context of the current debates around Black Lives Matter, the church therefore wants to remove the black image of one of the three wise men from the nativity scene. Provost Ernst-Wilhelm Gohl announced this this week. According to the spokesman for the church, this is “as a precaution” in order not to receive accusations of racism.
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www.news1.news

German church wants black image of three kings banned for ‘racist caricature’ | Inland | News1 English

www.news1.news www.news1.news

What do you think of it?
 
Rumpel said:
What do you think of it?
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Well it's being misrepresented as a "ban" to spin up the story since it just seems to be the people running the cathedral deciding whether they use their figure in their nativity scene. They're obviously perfectly entitled to make that decision and based on the description, it is based on perfectly reasonable concerns about the outdated caricature nature of the figure and the negative responses it could receive.
 
HonestJoe said:
They're obviously perfectly entitled to make that decision
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I do not doubt that they are "entitled" to make that decision.
But that does not make it a good decision, automatically.
 
Rumpel said:
I do not doubt that they are "entitled" to make that decision.
But that does not make it a good decision, automatically.
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I never said it was, my main point was that calling it a "ban" is fraudulent tabloid spin. If there is going to be any rational discussion about the rights and wrongs of what is actually happening, that kind of distraction needs cutting away first.
 
PoS said:
It's Germany, where National Socialism was invented, so what else is new?
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Why must you insult a country like that?
What you say here could in fact be called racism.

IGNO
 
Rumpel said:
Why must you insult a country like that?
What you say here could in fact be called racism.

IGNO
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Don't worry about PoS, he's got one speed and one speed only these days... ;) He's only here to be edgy.

As to the imagery...I'd have to get a better close up on the statue's face. If it's features are exaggerated to fit racist stereotypes, a replacement is probably appropriate. If it's just a black guy, well, that's kind of the story, so this would be a strange one. Not sure how the rings play in one way or another - they were kings, they're gonna have rings...hehe
 
OlNate said:
If it's features are exaggerated to fit racist stereotypes, a replacement is probably appropriate.
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That would be completely OK with me!
Replace one figure with another.

But to chase all the three Holy Kings out of the church - that is too much!
 
Rumpel said:
That would be completely OK with me!
Replace one figure with another.

But to chase all the three Holy Kings out of the church - that is too much!
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Yeah...I'm not sure that's what's happening... But if it were, well, that would be unfortunate. Luckily, either way, the statue is not required for the observation of faith. :)
 
Of course to the current corporate-fascist dogma - and certainly in Nazi Germany - black people can't be Kings. Rather, black people are ignorant, inferior, angry desperate people totally dependent upon white people taking care of them like a herd of black cattle.

So accordingly a Nativity scene portraying black people as kings is entirely unacceptable when only white people are suitable to be kings. No one should be surprised that black people as kings and nobility is totally unacceptable in white Nazi Germany - then or now.
 
Meh....I dont know if its even a matter of right or wrong; seems to be its more a matter of perception to those running the Church.....That being said, I am not one for religious dogma, and am no more offended by the notion of a different representation of the three wise men than I am by a black Santa or Jesus.
I suppose each religious faction will have their own ideas of what is "correct".
 
joko104 said:
Of course to the current corporate-fascist dogma - and certainly in Nazi Germany - black people can't be Kings. Rather, black people are ignorant, inferior, angry desperate people totally dependent upon white people taking care of them like a herd of black cattle.

So accordingly a Nativity scene portraying black people as kings is entirely unacceptable when only white people are suitable to be kings. No one should be surprised that black people as kings and nobility is totally unacceptable in white Nazi Germany - then or now.
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Uh, no, as usual you're in full tilt mode over something rather mundane. You should really try to calm down, this chicken little routine is going to kill you one day, bud...
 
joko104 said:
Of course to the current corporate-fascist dogma - and certainly in Nazi Germany - black people can't be Kings. Rather, black people are ignorant, inferior, angry desperate people totally dependent upon white people taking care of them like a herd of black cattle.

So accordingly a Nativity scene portraying black people as kings is entirely unacceptable when only white people are suitable to be kings. No one should be surprised that black people as kings and nobility is totally unacceptable in white Nazi Germany - then or now.
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Nazi Germany?
That is a thing of the past.
For you it seems to be a thing of the present.
Is Nazi the only thing that you know when Germany is the topic?
Over and out.
 
OlNate said:
Uh, no, as usual you're in full tilt mode over something rather mundane. You should really try to calm down, this chicken little routine is going to kill you one day, bud...
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This Joko seems to have no idea of the Germany of 2020.
He only "knows" the Germany of 1933 - and not even that really.
 
Rumpel said:
This Joko seems to have no idea of the Germany of 2020.
He only "knows" the Germany of 1933 - and not even that really.
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Joko and PoS frequently like each other's posts. That should tell you about all you need to know. Some folks are only here for entertainment purposes, whether they are in on the joke or not. ;)
 
A bit of historical perspective:

By the 15th century CE, within Europe, the three kings were regarded as representative symbols of Africa, Asia, and Europe, and they were frequently depicted within Renaissance and Baroque art with Balthazar as a black king. Depictions of the Adoration with a black magus were particularly popular in Renaissance and Early Modern Belgium. They included a young black king as representing Africa, which was engaging in more frequent contact with Northern Europe. The story behind the rise and decline of the popularity of the black magus during the Renaissance has been largely forgotten, but at one time, the tale was used to explain the perceived need for conversion to Christianity, the three ages of man (childhood, adulthood, and old age), as well as emerging theories of race. https://hyperallergic.com/535881/the-story-of-the-black-king-among-the-magi/
 
Rumpel said:
Nazi Germany?
That is a thing of the past.
For you it seems to be a thing of the present.
Is Nazi the only thing that you know when Germany is the topic?
Over and out.
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There is a German on this forum who will explain to you that the USA is a nation failing because it is an nation of non-white mongrels and inferior non-white races. It was massive number of Jew-hating Muslims that Germany imported as workers - not Jews. A white German church deciding that blacks can't be kings fits Germany's history on racism and eugenics.
Germany increasingly returns to national socialism and this action is consistent with the evolution. I also have been told by service members who have lived in Germany that many - if not most - Germans still believe they are the superior white race.
 
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They should be banned, not because of their skin color, but because they were astrologers...
 
OlNate said:
Joko and PoS frequently like each other's posts. That should tell you about all you need to know. Some folks are only here for entertainment purposes, whether they are in on the joke or not. ;)
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Thank you! Good to know! :)
 
nota bene said:
A bit of historical perspective:

By the 15th century CE, within Europe, the three kings were regarded as representative symbols of Africa, Asia, and Europe, and they were frequently depicted within Renaissance and Baroque art with Balthazar as a black king. Depictions of the Adoration with a black magus were particularly popular in Renaissance and Early Modern Belgium. They included a young black king as representing Africa, which was engaging in more frequent contact with Northern Europe.
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Exactly! And that was not racist and there was no racism in the modern sense.
 
Rumpel said:
Why must you insult a country like that?
What you say here could in fact be called racism.

IGNO
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Stating historical fact isnt racism. How you equate the two could only mean youre defending Nazism.

OlNate said:
Don't worry about PoS, he's got one speed and one speed only these days... ;) He's only here to be edgy.
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Well somebody has to pick up the slack since Ontarian Canucks only care about trapping beavers so they could sew more of those codpieces theyre so fond of wearing in the wintertime.
 
OlNate said:
Joko and PoS frequently like each other's posts. That should tell you about all you need to know. Some folks are only here for entertainment purposes, whether they are in on the joke or not. ;)
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Your's is an interesting message. I don't know jacks**t about what you post. Do you keep careful records on each poster on the forum? If I can't find one of my messages sometime, I guess all I need to do is check with you so you can look it up in the Rolodex you have of my messages. ROLF
 
Why shouldn't a church decide what they want to display in their own church? No one is forcing the church to do anything they made their own decision of what Christmas decorations they would put out.
 
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