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Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord....

UtahBill said:
Sorry, we make decisions with our brains. The heart has nothing to do with it. Back in the old days it might have been believed that the heart has power to influence, but the heart is connected to the brain. Attempts by modern religious leaders to distort the true message of Christ by rewriting the scriptures again and again are only leading to more confusion. People of even less than average intellect will eventually reject that. It happened in England and it can happen here.
Most protestant churches use the words of Paul far more than the actual teachings of Christ. His teachings are the foundation of Christianity, not Pauls.
And again, it is being done for vain reasons. The depths of hell will be littered with wannabe preachers and pastors who knowingly led their flocks in the path of destruction.
Here are just a few scriptures that attest to you erroneous assertions. Paul's writings are as much TRUTH as all of the bible. You Sir are in left field.

Romans 10: 9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
2 Corinthians 7:10
For the sorrow which God gives is the cause of salvation through a change of heart, in which there is no reason for grief: but the sorrow of the world is a cause of death. (BBE)
Ephesians 4:21-24
Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
 
Apostle13 said:
Here are just a few scriptures that attest to you erroneous assertions. Paul's writings are as much TRUTH as all of the bible. You Sir are in left field.

Romans 10: 9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
2 Corinthians 7:10
For the sorrow which God gives is the cause of salvation through a change of heart, in which there is no reason for grief: but the sorrow of the world is a cause of death. (BBE)
Ephesians 4:21-24
Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Well, at least I am in the ball park. Paul's writings are mostly letters to the churches he founded in the name of Christ. They are consistently taken out of context and used as though they have the same importance as the teachings of Jesus himself. That is not so and any preacher saying so has to accept that every word in the Bible is as important and relevant to us today as are the words of Christ. You don't by any chance live according to the Old Testament teachings, do you?
The teachings of Christ, followed by the teachings of the original apostles should carry more weight, not the teachings of some latecomer who was a great missionary, but misguided in many ways. He is terribly inconsistent and almost universally at odds with the teachings of Christ on the faith vs. works issue. Even later Catholics like Martin Luther tried to delete entire books, like James, because it didn't agree with Paul's teachings.
There are many charlatans and false teachers involved here. You may even be one of them. How big is the flock you are fleecing? And why are you not in church on a Sunday morning?
BTW, I am not there because I have some nasty virus that I choose to not share with my friends...
 
Apostle13 said:
It doesn't.

By what authority/right have you that you could even begin to judge me?
If I say I am a preacher then I make myself out to be nothing as I am considered among the least in the Kingdom of Heaven... As an apostle, lesser still. The Kingdom of God is within me. The blinders are upon you my friend as mine have long been removed.


Actually...mine was sarcasm...though you seem to have missed it. Guess you were too busy Judging me to notice. My intent was to get the very reaction you replyed with.....as it is somewhat typical.

PS. I was a christian for over 20 yrs.....still have those blinders somewhere....junk drawer I think.
 
Apostle13 said:
Fair enough.

We are all different. I am most certainly no exception. Your soul is your own responsibility, as is mine, my own. As a child I knew the truth and even still, I strayed far from it as a young adult. In all my years astray I never denied God nor His Son (The Truth). Neither did I return to Him of my own free will... Instead, I just went my own way, in my own strength. When suddenly my strength was gone and death was knocking down my door. Then once again The Truth came to Life within me.

Because He Lives! I Live also!

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you were an addict of some sort. Either through AA or some sort of intervention, you 'found' Jesus. So you haven't erased any addiction-you just exchanged one for another, which is typical of those who have a dependency, especially to a chemical such as alcohol or narcotics. In the spirit of the thread's point, you use Jesus and God as your crutch to keep you 'saved' from the ravages of whatever was killing you.(Your blinders will, of course, deny this).
This 'truth' is merely your own belief-trying to tell others it's THE only truth is pompous, arrogant and quite erroneous.
Apostle13 said:
Jesus is alive.
Mohamed is dead.
Generalized religion is not a premise for debate.
Neither am I religious.
Jesus lived and DIED over 2000 years ago. He is dead, same as Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard and quite a few other 'truth-seers'.
If you're not 'religious', I don't know who is-
re·li·gious (rĭ-lĭj'əs)
adj.
Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.

I suppose being devoutly religious is better than being dependent on a killing vice, but when you start hammering others with your own 'truth', you do two things: 1) you only get those weak enough and dull enough to follow anything to heed you, while those that do not wish to be hammered will just walk away and 2) you close yourself off to the diversities and knowledge one can acquire. In other words, you're wearing blinders.
 
tecoyah said:
Actually...mine was sarcasm...though you seem to have missed it.
I can't see it even after three re-reads. Since we are not debating in person maybe you could throw in some sorta indicator..?
Guess you were too busy Judging me to notice.
Hardly...Rather defending your own judgment of me...In as follows;
tecoyah said:
You may be a preacher....but you are far from God.
My intent was to get the very reaction you replyed with.....as it is somewhat typical.
:confused: Now you are contradicting your own sarcasm defence..? Which is it sarcasm or willful intent for to provoke..? Had I recognized sarcasm I would have likely flipped it back at ya, as that is my style.
Will you then otherwise be hypercritical as to the response you instead received..?
Are you sure you are not trying to back-peddle your initial response..?
Nevertheless, I take you at your word.

PS. I was a christian for over 20 yrs.....still have those blinders somewhere....junk drawer I think.
Filthy apostate...(sarcasm)
 
ngdawg said:
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you were an addict of some sort. Either through AA or some sort of intervention, you 'found' Jesus. So you haven't erased any addiction-you just exchanged one for another, which is typical of those who have a dependency, especially to a chemical such as alcohol or narcotics. In the spirit of the thread's point, you use Jesus and God as your crutch to keep you 'saved' from the ravages of whatever was killing you.(Your blinders will, of course, deny this).
This 'truth' is merely your own belief-trying to tell others it's THE only truth is pompous, arrogant and quite erroneous.

Jesus lived and DIED over 2000 years ago. He is dead, same as Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard and quite a few other 'truth-seers'.
If you're not 'religious', I don't know who is-
re·li·gious (rĭ-lĭj'əs)
adj.
Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.

I suppose being devoutly religious is better than being dependent on a killing vice, but when you start hammering others with your own 'truth', you do two things: 1) you only get those weak enough and dull enough to follow anything to heed you, while those that do not wish to be hammered will just walk away and 2) you close yourself off to the diversities and knowledge one can acquire. In other words, you're wearing blinders.

Well aren't you the amateur psycho-analyst. Wow you got all that just reading a few of my posts.
Keep your day job!
 
Apostle13 said:
Well aren't you the amateur psycho-analyst. Wow you got all that just reading a few of my posts.
Keep your day job!
Don't have one, Preacher.(and I did say I was guessing) Having associated with enough alkies and the like, you fit the profile. Unless of course, your car was going over a cliff and you prayed it wouldn't explode into flames.....:mrgreen:
Point is, you are addicted to your belief and try to force it on others. Even never being in those situations, you may as well have been. And if whatever 'almost killed' you was a medical condition, "God" had nothing to do with your 'healing'. Yet you persist in insisting to others which comes back to the core point-using God's name for personal reasons and excuses.
I take note of the fact that you can not dispute the other opinions.
 
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Apostle13 said:
I can't see it even after three re-reads. Since we are not debating in person maybe you could throw in some sorta indicator..?

If needed....so be it.(note sarcasm)

Hardly...Rather defending your own judgment of me...In as follows;

So...did I mean you are Far away from God...or
That you are Not God? you tell me



:confused: Now you are contradicting your own sarcasm defence..? Which is it sarcasm or willful intent for to provoke..?

Surely....you are joking, in that you do not see the use of sarcasm as a means to provoke a response. One would think as a preacher....you would have a somewhat more capable grasp of human psychology.(note sarcasm)

Had I recognized sarcasm I would have likely flipped it back at ya, as that is my style.

it would be a welcome respite from that which you have put forward thus far

Will you then otherwise be hypercritical as to the response you instead received..?

Hardly....if anything I would allow for a bit more respect...which you could sorely use about now(no sarcasm intended)

Are you sure you are not trying to back-peddle your initial response..?
Nevertheless, I take you at your word.

Yes....I am quite sure.



Filthy apostate...(sarcasm)

And by the way....I did not abandon the faith.....I simply outgrew it. Its still there, but it is far less lonely now. Enjoy the solitude, and be careful who you decide to challenge mentally.
 
tecoyah said:
And by the way....I did not abandon the faith.....I simply outgrew it. Its still there, but it is far less lonely now..
Though I'm saddened by your chosen compromise. I'm encouraged that you've not abandoned the faith.

Surely....you are joking, in that you do not see the use of sarcasm as a means to provoke a response. One would think as a preacher....you would have a somewhat more capable grasp of human psychology.(note sarcasm)
No...Really I missed it. My bad. Had I not you would have incurred a more likely different response...Who knows what..?

Enjoy the solitude, and be careful who you decide to challenge mentally.
I am far from lonely, and intellect is overrated. Pride in intellect is a stumbling block.

Hey are you yelling (bold print) at me..?
 
ngdawg said:
Don't have one, Preacher.(and I did say I was guessing) Having associated with enough alkies and the like, you fit the profile. Unless of course, your car was going over a cliff and you prayed it wouldn't explode into flames.....:mrgreen:
Point is, you are addicted to your belief and try to force it on others. Even never being in those situations, you may as well have been. And if whatever 'almost killed' you was a medical condition, "God" had nothing to do with your 'healing'. Yet you persist in insisting to others which comes back to the core point-using God's name for personal reasons and excuses.
I take note of the fact that you can not dispute the other opinions.
Oh well... I guess you told me.
1. Your method of profiling is flawed by generalization and pre-conceived ideals.
2. I force nothing concerning my beliefs on nobody. Simply sharing them, as are they, as are you... Addicted..? What an absurdity.
3. God had everything to do with my healing and in is much as you know he did not, all the more, I know that he did.
Therefore, if I were to persist to insist could it not be that I've all good reason. What gain have I that I should lie concerning this... Or maybe I fit even another profile as well..? What just because I still bear the scars both mental and physical from my latest alien abduction.:roll:
One who is religious, by definition, it is a broad and generalized notion. If you've a belief and or system thereof then you are religious to whatever degree. This is why I say I am not, so as not to be cast in the lot by way of generalization. Guilt by association would likewise then be guilt by generalization. Even the terrorists were called religious.
 
Apostle13 said:
Oh well... I guess you told me.
1. Your method of profiling is flawed by generalization and pre-conceived ideals.
2. I force nothing concerning my beliefs on nobody. Simply sharing them, as are they, as are you... Addicted..? What an absurdity.
3. God had everything to do with my healing and in is much as you know he did not, all the more, I know that he did.
Therefore, if I were to persist to insist could it not be that I've all good reason. What gain have I that I should lie concerning this... Or maybe I fit even another profile as well..? What just because I still bear the scars both mental and physical from my latest alien abduction.:roll:
One who is religious, by definition, it is a broad and generalized notion. If you've a belief and or system thereof then you are religious to whatever degree. This is why I say I am not, so as not to be cast in the lot by way of generalization. Guilt by association would likewise then be guilt by generalization. Even the terrorists were called religious.
With the general understanding of what their religion was. And they too used the name of God for their actions. If you aren't using the term religious because you don't want to be thought of as in the same class as a terrorist, you might find you are offbase there. Only totally close-minded bigots could even try to make that comparison.
Yes, you do use God and Jesus as an addiction as they are your reasons for everything you do, at least as far as you have said here. And when they are not your reasons, you pray to them to change that. You are seemingly dependant on your beliefs to sustain you.
Saying it was God who did the healing negates the efforts of everyone who had a hand it, from doctors to loved ones, certainly more tangilble hands-on than a spirit or belief.
Yea, the profile is 'generally' called 'born again'. Fallen to the depths of despair...thinking you abandoned your faith only to find it again...it's called growing up, taking responsibility, making better choices, etc. Your choice became to preach-good for you, not necessarily for those of us who don't care to be preached to though :roll:
If it works for you, fine. But when you pontificate as you have and declare you are THE one who knows THE truth, as I stated, it becomes arrogance. Some of us have taken our past faith and use some of the better of what we learned to enhance our own lives-doesn't mean we are less knowledgeable of truths or falsehoods. But just as you THINK you have THE answer, so do others and they won't always jibe with yours, yet you insist they must in many cases.(Personally, I don't have a truth and I'm not arrogant enough to say I do) It's not necessary to quote passages to make our points as they are not the end-all to morals, beliefs or spiritualness. We don't need to justify and give credit to God for how our lives go. If that's too pragmatic for you, that's not my issue.
As for pride in intellect, it is no more of a stumbling block than blind faith. It precludes the possibility that there is more than one path. However, just as you can proclaim to have the truth, another can proclaim you don't. Doesn't make you right, doesn't make them wrong.
 
I prefer that I not have to continue defending my own personal character by way of you erroneous assumptions and categorical profiling based upon them. I've no history here with you prior, when suddenly you single me out for attack. While I should like first to admit I am not pleased by your vague/veiled attempts to discredit me...
I must secondly ask myself why..?
After a slight of ponderence, I am fully persuaded that the answer lies in the spiritual. Therefore, it is not fitting beyond what I have said already to begin to explain my resolve. Except to say, if one cannot equate spiritually, as part, the sum of all factors... The answer escapes them.

ngdawg said:
But when you pontificate as you have and declare you are THE one who knows THE truth, as I stated, it becomes arrogance.
As I am sure that is your observation and you are likely not alone. I am equally sure I am not arrogant... Neither alone.
What because I choose that I no longer compromise conscience/conviction, but rather adhere myself in accordance to a biblical standard of living..?
(BTW New Testament UBill:2wave:)
However, just as you can proclaim to have the truth, another can proclaim you don't. Doesn't make you right, doesn't make them wrong.
Doesn't make me wrong, doesn't make them right.
 
UtahBill said:
IN VAIN.....
I believe that nearly everyone has misunderstood that commandment. Most take it as not using God's name for cursing. I take it as taking the name of God upon you for vain reasons. That would be the televangelists who are always asking for money, the ones who try to use undue influence on the political system to take away our freedom to choose what we believe, and the ones who enrich themselves instead of following the commandments that were given by Jesus himself in the 4 gospels. They let the poor and hungry continue in their misery while they spend their time and money attacking and judging others who believe even only slightly differently than them.

A lot of Christians have distorted the beliefs so badly that the label "hypocrites" just don't do them justice. I think many of them are so selfish that they are close to being evil.....

Anyone want to defend them?

Exactly, it is only used my vicious Nuns, hell bent on causing you pain, because they chose such a disciplined life!

I know, I went to Catholic school!

Seriously though, I think you are right on with that statement, I and these fake healers are the devil in a blue dress, I believe that without question!
 
Apostle13 said:
I prefer that I not have to continue defending my own personal character by way of you erroneous assumptions and categorical profiling based upon them. I've no history here with you prior, when suddenly you single me out for attack. While I should like first to admit I am not pleased by your vague/veiled attempts to discredit me...
I must secondly ask myself why..?
After a slight of ponderence, I am fully persuaded that the answer lies in the spiritual. Therefore, it is not fitting beyond what I have said already to begin to explain my resolve. Except to say, if one cannot equate spiritually, as part, the sum of all factors... The answer escapes them.


As I am sure that is your observation and you are likely not alone. I am equally sure I am not arrogant... Neither alone.
What because I choose that I no longer compromise conscience/conviction, but rather adhere myself in accordance to a biblical standard of living..?
(BTW New Testament UBill:2wave:)

Doesn't make me wrong, doesn't make them right.

Sorry if you take opinions as attacks. If you don't want opinions, don't make such stereotypical remarks like those in that vague bio-you opened yourself up to scrutiny right then and there. Making the assertion that only you know some vague 'truth' and others do not, even twisting my final comment, point to an arrogance you have in believing only yours is a divine way. Many evangelists come across thusly as well.
The difference between your arrogance and mine is, I don't use a deity to justify mine. Even when wrong, I go only by the tangible in front of me. If you feel you are being discredited (wtf does that mean anyway?), again, your issue. Nothing I said 'discredited' anything. If any discrediting was done at all, it was in your denying that any living person had anything to do with your 'healing' and instead giving total credit to a doubtful deity and his 'offspring'. If I were to credit Zeus for everything in my life, you'd surely be 'correcting' me.
Back to the subject at hand. It truly bothers me when statements are made that 'God doesn't want this to happen' or 'God caused this to happen' as if the person was a hired spokesperson. I have seen it quite frequently in these forums and it amazes me how everyone who does so seems to 'know' firsthand and declaring that the rest of us are 'unknowing', then using Bible passages to prove their point, as if that was fact. Using the name of God to make a point is a copout. Saying you were on the brink of whatever and 'Jesus' or 'God' saved you is really a copout as it negates your own strengths, the support of those around you and, quite frankly is an insult to those and yourself. When one has to depend on deities for every thought and opinion, they are crutches, addictions, if you will and truly being used selfishly. It is one thing to say, ie; your children are gifts from God. It is quite another to say God makes you spank them or that he had them get good grades. He is not responsible for your actions. And it's really hypocritical of those who make the claim that they 'lost God' and only in 'finding him again' were they 'saved'. Maybe you didn't lose the guy, maybe he threw you out. Or, here's a thought-maybe just maybe one just makes some bad choices. On their own. And maybe, just maybe, they get smarter and make changes. On their own.
 
ngdawg said:
Sorry if you take opinions as attacks. If you don't want opinions, don't make such stereotypical remarks like those in that vague bio-you opened yourself up to scrutiny right then and there. Making the assertion that only you know some vague 'truth' and others do not, even twisting my final comment, point to an arrogance you have in believing only yours is a divine way. Many evangelists come across thusly as well.
The difference between your arrogance and mine is, I don't use a deity to justify mine. Even when wrong, I go only by the tangible in front of me. If you feel you are being discredited (wtf does that mean anyway?), again, your issue. Nothing I said 'discredited' anything. If any discrediting was done at all, it was in your denying that any living person had anything to do with your 'healing' and instead giving total credit to a doubtful deity and his 'offspring'. If I were to credit Zeus for everything in my life, you'd surely be 'correcting' me.
Back to the subject at hand. It truly bothers me when statements are made that 'God doesn't want this to happen' or 'God caused this to happen' as if the person was a hired spokesperson. I have seen it quite frequently in these forums and it amazes me how everyone who does so seems to 'know' firsthand and declaring that the rest of us are 'unknowing', then using Bible passages to prove their point, as if that was fact. Using the name of God to make a point is a copout. Saying you were on the brink of whatever and 'Jesus' or 'God' saved you is really a copout as it negates your own strengths, the support of those around you and, quite frankly is an insult to those and yourself. When one has to depend on deities for every thought and opinion, they are crutches, addictions, if you will and truly being used selfishly. It is one thing to say, ie; your children are gifts from God. It is quite another to say God makes you spank them or that he had them get good grades. He is not responsible for your actions. And it's really hypocritical of those who make the claim that they 'lost God' and only in 'finding him again' were they 'saved'. Maybe you didn't lose the guy, maybe he threw you out. Or, here's a thought-maybe just maybe one just makes some bad choices. On their own. And maybe, just maybe, they get smarter and make changes. On their own.

You opened me up to scrutiny by way of your own skepticism, and now you seek to justify this action by what..? A purposedly lacked detail account ("vague bio") of me as to why I've become such that I am..? Certainly I am no stranger to scrutiny/character assassination as it does go with the territory, both in clergy and DP postings. In so far as twisting your final comment;
"However, just as you can proclaim to have the truth, another can proclaim you don't. Doesn't make you right, doesn't make them wrong."
verses;
"Doesn't make me wrong, doesn't make them right."
Are these not but only two separate and opposing views..? Equal in arrogance should one choose to define in said manner..? Did I twist it or flip it..? You in your own strength... Whereby you glory in yourself;
The difference between your arrogance and mine is, I don't use a deity to justify mine. Even when wrong, I go only by the tangible in front of me.
I in God's given strength, as I do walk by faith and not by sight.

If you feel you are being discredited (wtf does that mean anyway?), again, your issue.
I did not say this, but rather;
While I should like first to admit I am not pleased by your vague/veiled attempts to discredit me...
A large difference in having been actually discredited, and having only recognized attempts thereby. BTW http://www.answers.com/topic/discredit
...If I were to glory in men/women and a doctor actually saved my life at any one point then I might maybe thank him with some, modest praise, but moreover, praise and glorify God for having sent him...As I give glory to no man. However, was not my scenario.
Yes... We as true believers are inclined and purpose ourselves to make scriptural reverences whether we are witnessing , comforting, edifying, or when defending our faith.
As for the rest of your post... I don't recall saying ever that I lost God, never have I spanked my children or even credited God for the A's on their report cards... Seems you are generalizing and again at my expense as though I have said these.
I know your game... If I let them go unanswered then you can appear some kinda winner.
...And yet I am not competing.
 
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I never said you as in yourself(re:spanking, etc.)-you have some major issues of defense going here...read again.
Anyone here, including myself, who attempts to use their own experiences pertaining to the debate they are in, opens themselves up to scrutiny. Taking analogies and hypotheses as personal attacks speaks of your own lack of thick skin.
Walk in faith but not in sight? I feel kind of sorry for you. You deny your own strengths and abilities by handing over what you yourself have accomplished to the faith of something unproven.
I have no agenda to discredit you, so saying I made attempts to is erroneous at best. I even said whatever works for you, fine. It's the attempts made earlier to discredit others in their disbeliefs or different views by saying only 'you' know some truth that I would even attempt to discredit-I hold to the opinion that that is arrogant and a selfish use of your deity.
 
ngdawg said:
I never said you as in yourself(re:spanking, etc.)-you have some major issues of defense going here...read again.
...And again you are generalizing. Stirring all who profess themselves Christians in the same pot. While at the same time you refuse in realizing/accepting my reason for reasoning as to why I prefer to detach myself from this broad definition that encompasses religion;
Apostle13 said:
One who is religious, by definition, it is a broad and generalized notion. If you've a belief and or system thereof then you are religious to whatever degree. This is why I say I am not, so as not to be cast in the lot by way of generalization. Guilt by association would likewise then be guilt by generalization. Even the terrorists were called religious.
ngdawg said:
With the general understanding of what their religion was. And they too used the name of God for their actions. If you aren't using the term religious because you don't want to be thought of as in the same class as a terrorist, you might find you are offbase there. Only totally close-minded bigots could even try to make that comparison.
In as much as 911 is an extremest example of Islam. Ours as Christians are The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch hunts, Hitler was a Christian. I am sure there are more but surely you get the drift..? All done under the guise of christianity, thus religion.
...So far as close minded biggots... You'd be surprised how they crawl from the cracks if you try to share your faith in truth as a Christian.

ngdawg said:
Anyone here, including myself, who attempts to use their own experiences pertaining to the debate they are in, opens themselves up to scrutiny.
Fair enough... Just not my personal inclination.
ngdawg said:
Taking analogies and hypotheses as personal attacks speaks of your own lack of thick skin.
I should like to admit here that I enjoy somewhat the anonymity here because in real life and real time I am best less to argue/confront my accusers due to my position among the saints. Turning a deaf ear/the other cheek is not a weakness but rather a sign of strength in temperance. Hence, meekness.
ngdawg said:
Walk in faith but not in sight? I feel kind of sorry for you. You deny your own strengths and abilities by handing over what you yourself have accomplished to the faith of something unproven.
Once again I glory not in men... Self included, otherwise known as humility. Which is another fine Christian attribute.
It's the attempts made earlier to discredit others in their disbeliefs or different views by saying only 'you' know some truth that I would even attempt to discredit-I hold to the opinion that that is arrogant and a selfish use of your deity.
I never said only me. Tried to find it... It's just not here... And if it were to be I am certain it is either misconstrued/typo.
 
Apostle13 said:
...And again you are generalizing. Stirring all who profess themselves Christians in the same pot. While at the same time you refuse in realizing/accepting my reason for reasoning as to why I prefer to detach myself from this broad definition that encompasses religion;

In as much as 911 is an extremest example of Islam. Ours as Christians are The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch hunts, Hitler was a Christian. I am sure there are more but surely you get the drift..? All done under the guise of christianity, thus religion.
...So far as close minded biggots... You'd be surprised how they crawl from the cracks if you try to share your faith in truth as a Christian.

Apostle13 said:
Fair enough... Just not my personal inclination.
To generalize or call attention to 'groups'? Or to just not recall doing so:
"That being simply that you reason from the mind and not the heart. Like it or not athiesm is your religion, and your perpetual effort to either villify God or else reduce Him to some mythical logic by way of an internet pulpit, and God knows wherever else, are highly futile and in the least annoying to the True believer." Or this:
"You just have major contempt issues for the things of God.
...And yet you are not without hope lest you stop breathing.
You focus on trivial questions for to deter that which you cannot comprehend other than the void that haunts the darkened depths of your soul.
Free will is a dangerous thing for those who are bent on carnality.
How much more for a mocker of God..?"


Apostle13 said:
...
I should like to admit here that I enjoy somewhat the anonymity here because in real life and real time I am best less to argue/confront my accusers due to my position among the saints. Turning a deaf ear/the other cheek is not a weakness but rather a sign of strength in temperance. Hence, meekness.
Once again I glory not in men... Self included, otherwise known as humility. Which is another fine Christian attribute.
I fail to see any humility in such statements: "Always knowing that we have the TRUTH (as described in John 14:6) on our side...Making them squirm in their convictions." bit of arrogance right there, whether you want to call it something else or not.
Apostle13 said:
I never said only me. Tried to find it... It's just not here... And if it were to be I am certain it is either misconstrued/typo.
"In which case you should doubt me... As I do know the truth."

See, Apostle...as much as you would like to think you walk among the saints, you are, sorry to say......................human. You forget or you deny statements, you deny anything judgemental toward you, yet judge, get thinskinned and turn it back, calling it whatever biblical parable fits the occasion. You can be light too, but for all your preaching and declarations of being a 'true christian', you have as far to go as anyone.
You do not wish to be 'grouped' with others calling themselves christian or religious, yet do the same. You don't want to be judged and, in fact, have a habit of denying any hypothesis directed toward you, yet you judge.
As I see it, the major difference here is you do it all in the name of God, I just do it as I see it.
Also, if you ARE going to deny others' opinions of the whys and hows of your remarks, you would do yourself a service by clarifying why we are wrong, lest you continue to be erroneously judged, continuously shot down and 'grouped', causing you to continue to appear defensive and thinskinned.
But that's YOUR call.....
 
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Originally posted by ngdawg
you deny anything judgemental toward you, yet judge,

O man, you're preaching to the choir here. I thought I was the only one on the forums who thought that Christians were extremely judgemental.
 
ngdawg said:
See, Apostle...as much as you would like to think you walk among the saints, you are, sorry to say......................human. You forget or you deny statements, you deny anything judgemental toward you, yet judge, get thinskinned and turn it back, calling it whatever biblical parable fits the occasion. You can be light too, but for all your preaching and declarations of being a 'true christian', you have as far to go as anyone.
You do not wish to be 'grouped' with others calling themselves christian or religious, yet do the same. You don't want to be judged and, in fact, have a habit of denying any hypothesis directed toward you, yet you judge.
As I see it, the major difference here is you do it all in the name of God, I just do it as I see it.
Also, if you ARE going to deny others' opinions of the whys and hows of your remarks, you would do yourself a service by clarifying why we are wrong, lest you continue to be erroneously judged, continuously shot down and 'grouped', causing you to continue to appear defensive and thinskinned.
But that's YOUR call.....
You prove nothing... Save that being my point... Your insatiable desire to discredit me... Even to such, and by way, of a desperate means, as to funnell and dig thru pasts posts, remove them from their contextual descriptives, for to further imply something altogether seperate from the current subject at hand. Then wrapping it all about in some seemingly closing and final analysis, whereby you contend yourself as being the character cop for DP.
In the least your actions border in the realm of the pathetic.
Neither is:
Apostle13 said:
In which case you should doubt me... As I do know the truth
The same as:
ngdawg said:
by saying only 'you' know some truth that I would even attempt to discredit
Thereby my words and meaning construed as suspected.
Do you never stop..?
You want I should just sign the ticket deputy..?
 
Apostle13 said:
You prove nothing... Save that being my point... Your insatiable desire to discredit me... Even to such, and by way, of a desperate means, as to funnell and dig thru pasts posts, remove them from their contextual descriptives, for to further imply something altogether seperate from the current subject at hand. Then wrapping it all about in some seemingly closing and final analysis, whereby you contend yourself as being the character cop for DP.
In the least your actions border in the realm of the pathetic.
Neither is:
The same as:
Thereby my words and meaning construed as suspected.
Do you never stop..?
You want I should just sign the ticket deputy..?
YOU put up the challenge....don't ask for something if you don't really want it.
I didn't construe, they are direct quotes. Again, denial of what you say and do. I haven't discredited anything but whatever you think to be so in your own head, nor am I attempting to. Sir, you do that on your own.
Now, about that judging thing, deputy? Pot, meet Kettle....
Good Christian indeed:roll:
 
ngdawg said:
YOU put up the challenge....don't ask for something if you don't really want it.
I didn't construe, they are direct quotes. Again, denial of what you say and do.
Spin it how you wish deputy dawg... What I said (ref. post#45) as opposed to what you say I said are two, too different. Whereby you intend to imply pomposity on my part. You could only fool a fool with that'n. Take heart we have all sorts here.
Where did I present this challenge?
Did you not first begin with your analytical carpet bombings..?
I haven't discredited anything but whatever you think to be so in your own head, nor am I attempting to.
Spin again... Stop you are making me nauseous.
Now, about that judging thing, deputy? Pot, meet Kettle....
Good Christian indeed:roll:
...And here we have the classic veiled you're a hypocrite maneuver... Oh man :doh nailed my coffin...;)
 
Now, Pot, here's YOUR challenge....
Where are you being discredited? I will note that I am not the only one to, as you say, 'spin' things you have said or 'misconstrued', or 'misinterpreted', yada yada....I'm just your bouncy ball this week :mrgreen:
Your "I know the truth" statements were certainly directed to put yourself on a higher plane, at least as written.
How often during these interludes are you going to jump to conclusions and judge? I made one initial guess and you've been at it ever since.
Don't call ME 'hypocritical'. You have been calling yourself a preacher, a believer in God and Jesus, claiming they have spoken to you and have been acting like a heretic here....and being quite pompous about it too.
Thank you for solidifying my impression: you're another phony using the mask of christianity to 'legitimize' your existance. Have a good evening...this was fun but you're beginning to bore me.....(God told me to say these things and he also said "tell Apostle13 howdy, but please stop invoking my good name to make a point-I got other and better things to do")
 
The Real McCoy said:
Well, I'm screwed then. Since I'm already guilty of murder, I think I'll just go grab a gun and kill as many people as I can and then ask for forgivness. Hey, while I'm at it, maybe I'll rape a few little girls too.

Rape isn't part of the Ten Commandments, so your in the clear Real McCoy! So taking the Lord's name in vain is worse than rape??
 
Maybe rape is covered under not coveting the neighbor's wife...
Now, if you should happen to covet and you both start yelling, "Oh, God!", are you killing two commandments with one stone? Oh wait, 'thou shalt not kill'...dammit, can't win...
 
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