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Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord....

UtahBill

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IN VAIN.....
I believe that nearly everyone has misunderstood that commandment. Most take it as not using God's name for cursing. I take it as taking the name of God upon you for vain reasons. That would be the televangelists who are always asking for money, the ones who try to use undue influence on the political system to take away our freedom to choose what we believe, and the ones who enrich themselves instead of following the commandments that were given by Jesus himself in the 4 gospels. They let the poor and hungry continue in their misery while they spend their time and money attacking and judging others who believe even only slightly differently than them.

A lot of Christians have distorted the beliefs so badly that the label "hypocrites" just don't do them justice. I think many of them are so selfish that they are close to being evil.....

Anyone want to defend them?
 

LeftyHenry

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People don't even think about it when they do it. Christians aren't the only ones who say it. I'm an atheist, and I say it many times.
 

shuamort

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Not to hijack this thread..but....

Should this ten commandment hold the same weight as the other? Should taking "the Lord's name in vain" be as equal an offense as murder in the eyes of a Jew or a Christian?
 

Apostle13

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shuamort said:
Not to hijack this thread..but....

Should this ten commandment hold the same weight as the other? Should taking "the Lord's name in vain" be as equal an offense as murder in the eyes of a Jew or a Christian?
Yes! Absolutely!!
Bible said:
A man who has kept the Law as a whole, but has failed to keep some one command, has become guilty of violating all.
 

UtahBill

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shuamort said:
Not to hijack this thread..but....

Should this ten commandment hold the same weight as the other? Should taking "the Lord's name in vain" be as equal an offense as murder in the eyes of a Jew or a Christian?
You are not hi-jacking, you are helping me make my point. Surely swearing is a trivial offense compared to pretending to represent the interests of God for personal or political gain.I seldom swear, but when I do, it usually includes God's name. Most of my swearing is in response to hurting myself, and as clumsy as I can be, that is often enough.

I actually heard this concept on a TV special, and it was a Jewish scholar proposing it.

Jimmy Carter might be the only politician that I know of who actually comes close to representing Christian ideals, and I suppose there are some famous preachers out there who are not in it for the money....
But, for the most part, preachers and politics are a bad combination.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Apostle13 said:
Yes! Absolutely!!

Bible said:
A man who has kept the Law as a whole, but has failed to keep some one command, has become guilty of violating all.
Well, I'm screwed then. Since I'm already guilty of murder, I think I'll just go grab a gun and kill as many people as I can and then ask for forgivness. Hey, while I'm at it, maybe I'll rape a few little girls too.
 

Apostle13

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The Real McCoy said:
Well, I'm screwed then. Since I'm already guilty of murder, I think I'll just go grab a gun and kill as many people as I can and then ask for forgivness. Hey, while I'm at it, maybe I'll rape a few little girls too.
In accordance to The Law(biblical), even to hate is to murder, to lust is to commit adultery, and to offend a child's innocence is a more harsh and reserved judgment, so I wouldn't be quick to go there in thought/jest. Besides, you are not being funny I dare say to most here.
The Good News is Jesus died so that we can be free of the law.
...But you know it is your prerogative as whether to accept that or not and just go on with your bad self... It's called Free will.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Apostle13 said:
In accordance to The Law(biblical), even to hate is to murder, to lust is to commit adultery, and to offend a child's innocence is a more harsh and reserved judgment, so I wouldn't be quick to go there in thought/jest. Besides, you are not being funny I dare say to most here.
Wasn't trying to be funny, just trying to illustrate a point.


Apostle13 said:
The Good News is Jesus died so that we can be free of the law.
...But you know it is your prerogative as whether to accept that or not and just go on with your bad self... It's called Free will.
No, I don't "know" that. What makes you any different than the billion+ Muslims who "know" Mohammed was God's ultimate prophet and spoke His word? You say you "know" the truth, they also say they "know the truth. I see no difference.
 

UtahBill

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The Real McCoy said:
Wasn't trying to be funny, just trying to illustrate a point.
No, I don't "know" that. What makes you any different than the billion+ Muslims who "know" Mohammed was God's ultimate prophet and spoke His word? You say you "know" the truth, they also say they "know the truth. I see no difference.
I have a lot of doubt about those who claim to KNOW. A lot of religious teachings are worth believing, but that is as far as it goes.
Of course, many have a more lenient definition of the word "know".
 

Apostle13

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UtahBill said:
I have a lot of doubt about those who claim to KNOW. A lot of religious teachings are worth believing, but that is as far as it goes.
Of course, many have a more lenient definition of the word "know".
In which case you should doubt me... As I do know the truth.
The Bible said:
Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Therefore, I am free from the law and yet not above it.
 

Apostle13

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The Real McCoy said:
Wasn't trying to be funny, just trying to illustrate a point.
Fair enough.
No, I don't "know" that. What makes you any different than the billion+ Muslims who "know" Mohammed was God's ultimate prophet and spoke His word? You say you "know" the truth, they also say they "know the truth. I see no difference.
We are all different. I am most certainly no exception. Your soul is your own responsibility, as is mine, my own. As a child I knew the truth and even still, I strayed far from it as a young adult. In all my years astray I never denied God nor His Son (The Truth). Neither did I return to Him of my own free will... Instead, I just went my own way, in my own strength. When suddenly my strength was gone and death was knocking down my door. Then once again The Truth came to Life within me.
The Bible said:
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.
Because He Lives! I Live also!
 
T

The Real McCoy

Apostle13 said:
As a child I knew the truth
And Abu Ali Muhab whatshisname knew the truth.



Apostle13 said:
and even still, I strayed far from it as a young adult. In all my years astray I never denied God nor His Son (The Truth). Neither did I return to Him of my own free will... Instead, I just went my own way, in my own strength. When suddenly my strength was gone and death was knocking down my door. Then once again The Truth came to Life within me.

Because He Lives! I Live also!
Same story except replace you with "Abu Ali Muhab whatshisname" and replace "His Son" (Christ) with "His Prophet" (Mohammed).
 

Apostle13

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The Real McCoy said:
And Abu Ali Muhab whatshisname knew the truth.





Same story except replace you with "Abu Ali Muhab whatshisname" and replace "His Son" (Christ) with "His Prophet" (Mohammed).
It' nobody's story but my own... It is my testimony without detail. I lived it and thru it. You can doubt it, discount it, or flat out call me a liar just for having shared it. Makes no matter to me. If I say I know I say it as an absolute by definition. If someone really knows then no one can take it from them, neither cast doubt within them. No... Not if they know.
Jesus is alive.
Mohamed is dead.
Generalized religion is not a premise for debate.
Neither am I religious.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Apostle13 said:
Jesus is alive.
Mohamed is dead.
Generalized religion is not a premise for debate.
Neither am I religious.
You say Jesus is alive and that He is "the Truth" but you then go on to say you aren't religious... Interesting.
 

Apostle13

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The Real McCoy said:
You say Jesus is alive and that He is "the Truth" but you then go on to say you aren't religious... Interesting.
Isn't it though.
...And yet I am a preacher also.
 

LeftyHenry

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shuamort said:
Not to hijack this thread..but....

Should this ten commandment hold the same weight as the other? Should taking "the Lord's name in vain" be as equal an offense as murder in the eyes of a Jew or a Christian?
The thing that strikes me about Christianity is that those who preach about being good to the lord and following the commandments still break alot of the commandments. Then they go around talking about how they are divine for accepting our savior etc... Just the other day I was with a christian friend and I gave money to a homeless guy on the street. He said aren't you atheist? Why are you giving money? Don't Atheists not have morals? (Not exactly tthat but meaning the same thing.)
 
T

The Real McCoy

Che said:
Just the other day I was with a christian friend and I gave money to a homeless guy on the street. He said aren't you atheist? Why are you giving money? Don't Atheists not have morals? (Not exactly tthat but meaning the same thing.)
Yea, seems like a lot of Christians cling to the notion that they have an exclusive patent on morality.

Although this is probably true of most any religion.
 
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Apostle13

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The Real McCoy said:
Yea, seems like a lot of Christians cling to the notion that they have an exclusive patent on morality.

Although this is probably true of most any religion.
Christians define morality by biblical accordance. Compassion is not a sole Christian attribute... But without it you are not a True Christian no matter how you slice it.
 

UtahBill

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Che said:
The thing that strikes me about Christianity is that those who preach about being good to the lord and following the commandments still break alot of the commandments. Then they go around talking about how they are divine for accepting our savior etc... Just the other day I was with a christian friend and I gave money to a homeless guy on the street. He said aren't you atheist? Why are you giving money? Don't Atheists not have morals? (Not exactly tthat but meaning the same thing.)
A lot of Christians have become so narrow minded that they think they are the only good people here, likewise will be the only ones in Heaven. They are probably in for a big surprise. I have a former coworker who votes with his wallet, or whoever saves him the most taxes. His church supports a paid ministry but not an outreach program. Money collected goes to support the pastors and their families, and the infrastructure of course.
A church near where my son lives is building a country club for its members. I guess you could call that an outreach program, for golfers. Maybe they will hire some homeless to help keep the greens in top shape.
Many churches have disconnected from the poor. Some, like the Catholics and Mormons, have welfare organizations that are admirable. Those 2 even work together in some places. Mormons have more food stuffs, and the Catholics already have a distribution program in places like Africa, so they use each other's strengths to benefit the needy. Small country churches are made up of mostly the poor, so they are not disconnected. But a lot of the larger, richer protestant churches in the northeast and midwest have gotten that way on the backs of the poor. During our fairly recent history, especially when the robber barons were in power, the churches sucked up to them, telling them that they were chosen of God to become wealthy. I suppose that was the thing to do, if you want donations to keep the church going. Like when robbing banks, you go where the money is.
But once they collected the funds, not much of it actually went to benefit the poor. After all, they were poor because they were not in favor with God, right?
Back when the Catholic church was the only Christian church, the poor box was used as a way to help the less fortunate. I saw a special on the history of prostitution a while back, and it seems that the money did get to the poor prostitutes, but they had to earn it by attending to the needs of the priests.
A lot of bad things have been done in the "name of God", and their will likely be some justice meted out in the hereafter, if there really is one.
 

tecoyah

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Apostle13 said:
It' nobody's story but my own... It is my testimony without detail. I lived it and thru it. You can doubt it, discount it, or flat out call me a liar just for having shared it. Makes no matter to me. If I say I know I say it as an absolute by definition. If someone really knows then no one can take it from them, neither cast doubt within them. No... Not if they know.
Jesus is alive.
Mohamed is dead.
Generalized religion is not a premise for debate.
Neither am I religious.
Well....I "KNOW" Jesus was just a man, Jehovah, yehovah, Yaweh, JHVH, YHVH, or YHWH...are not God.....and blinders do not allow for a complete view. How does it feel to have someone else claim they "Know" the truth.

You may be a preacher....but you are far from God.
 

Apostle13

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tecoyah said:
Well....I "KNOW" Jesus was just a man, Jehovah, yehovah, Yaweh, JHVH, YHVH, or YHWH...are not God.....and blinders do not allow for a complete view. How does it feel to have someone else claim they "Know" the truth.
It doesn't.
You may be a preacher....but you are far from God.
By what authority/right have you that you could even begin to judge me?
If I say I am a preacher then I make myself out to be nothing as I am considered among the least in the Kingdom of Heaven... As an apostle, lesser still. The Kingdom of God is within me. The blinders are upon you my friend as mine have long been removed.
The Bible said:
Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.
 

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Originally Posted by The Bible
Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

Pray tell, what distorted version of the Bible is that from?
A person with blinders on is usually the last to know that he has blinders on, and often never knows. He glories in his ignorance. It is so much easier than attempting to use the brains that God gave us.
 

Apostle13

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UtahBill said:
Originally Posted by The Bible
Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

Pray tell, what distorted version of the Bible is that from?
NIV 2 Corinthians 4: 1-9


A person with blinders on is usually the last to know that he has blinders on, and often never knows. He glories in his ignorance. It is so much easier than attempting to use the brains that God gave us.
Salvation is of the heart not the mind. We are to renew our minds in accordance to God's Word.
 

UtahBill

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Apostle13 said:
Salvation is of the heart not the mind. We are to renew our minds in accordance to God's Word.
Sorry, we make decisions with our brains. The heart has nothing to do with it. Back in the old days it might have been believed that the heart has power to influence, but the heart is connected to the brain. Attempts by modern religious leaders to distort the true message of Christ by rewriting the scriptures again and again are only leading to more confusion. People of even less than average intellect will eventually reject that. It happened in England and it can happen here.
Most Christian churches use the words of Paul far more than the actual teachings of Christ. His teachings are the foundation of Christianity, not Pauls.
And again, it is being done for vain reasons. The depths of hell will be littered with wannabe preachers and pastors who knowingly led their flocks in the path of destruction.
 
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