Thou shall not lie

[WCH]

Basically none of this is actually in Exodus. There are no categories. Judaism does not go in for wide nets in its rules. Judaism likes its rules extremely literal. It especially does not include the modern spin put on the taking god's name in vain.

Not that these modern readings are bad rules, just that they have absolutely no basis in the original intent of the scripture you're referring to.

The page states as much but, if you're Jewish, I'll take your word for it.

 

[cpwill]

Hi, people

I was wondering, why isn't there a commandment "Thou shall no lie" in the Decalogue?
The closest to that is "Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" but that is different from "don't lie", imho.
Why do you think there is no such commandment? What was the intent of that?

:shrug:

Romans 3 pretty much pointed out that even if used to further the kingdom of God, lying was still condemned.

 

[Canell]

Romans 3 pretty much pointed out that even if used to further the kingdom of God, lying was still condemned.

I know there are many 'auxiliary' teachings in the Bible but I thought such and important thing like lying (the condemnation of it that is) would be in the Decalogue. :roll:

 

[Logicman]

Oh, there's stoning all right.

Numbers 15:32-36 32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34 and they put him in [a]custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him [c]to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses

.

There's no stoning commanded for Christians in the New Testament. Just the opposite. Jesus said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Since it's axiomatic that all Christians understand they have sinned (which is why they embrace Christ as their Savior for the remission of their sins), then it's understood there will be no stoning in Christianity.

In addition, the only ones who are authorized to engage in capital punishment in the New Testament are God and the government.

Morality hasn't changed, but how punishment is meted out has.

 

[AdamZ]

Thou shall in no wise maketh or loveth a lie

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:13-15

Anyone care to share the 10 Commandments they believe in?

0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

 

[Logicman]

Thou shall in no wise maketh or loveth a lie

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:13-15

Anyone care to share the 10 Commandments they believe in?

0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

Like it is written:

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[OscarB63]

Hi, people

I was wondering, why isn't there a commandment "Thou shall no lie" in the Decalogue?
The closest to that is "Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" but that is different from "don't lie", imho.
Why do you think there is no such commandment? What was the intent of that?

:shrug:

I'm guessing it is implied. much like, if you read Leviticus and all the restrictions on who you may or may not shag. It never specifically states that a man shall not pork his daughter. It says a man shall not lie with his wife's daughter. I have always wondered why it was worded that way. was it to be more inclusive so that you are forbidden from screwing your step-daughter? or was it to allow you to screw your own daughter as long as her mother is not your wife?

 

[Paschendale]

Thou shall in no wise maketh or loveth a lie

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:13-15

Anyone care to share the 10 Commandments they believe in?

0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

I'm a fan of some of the new sets of humanist commandments that are drifting across the internet. Try these on for size.

1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.
2. In all things, strive to cause no harm.
3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.
4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.
5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
6. Always seek to be learning something new.
7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.
8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.
9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.
10. Question everything.

That list was expanded to 14 sometimes with thsese:

11. Enjoy your own sex life (so long as it damages nobody else) and leave others to enjoy theirs in private whatever their inclinations, which are none of your business.
12. Do not discriminate or oppress on the basis of sex, race or (as far as possible) species.
13. Do not indoctrinate your children. Teach them how to think for themselves, how to evaluate evidence, and how to disagree with you.
14. Value the future on a timescale longer than your own.

And then another pretty good list.

1. Love well
2. Seek the good in all things
3. Harm no others
4. Think for yourself
5 Take responsibility
6. Respect nature
7. Do your utmost
8. Be informed
9. Be kind
10. Be courageous

A really good set of moral rules can't just be about deference to authority and a few specific prohibitions. They must be active directives to be fair, kind, and honest. It really isn't enough to say not to harm, there must be a call to help. And intellectual liberty and an urging to think for oneself is necessary as well.

 

[avery45]

Not telling a woman she's fat or that her ass looks big is not lying. It's catering to womens' emotions... aaaand making sure you'll have someone to propagate the genetic line with. You know, for the good of the species of course.

Is it lying just to keep quiet? Married over 10 years. Never answered that question. lol

 

[Surtr]

I know there are many 'auxiliary' teachings in the Bible but I thought such and important thing like lying (the condemnation of it that is) would be in the Decalogue. :roll:

There are a lot of important things that aren't included in the Commandments.

 

[Canell]

There are a lot of important things that aren't included in the Commandments.

Like what, banning bacon?
I guess all Christians-porkeaters are going to burn in hell. :lol:

 

[head of joaquin]

Like it is written:

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And of course the admonition to love one's neighbors isn't even in the 10 Commandments.

But of course Jesus goes even beyond this and says we must love our enemies.

What is even more curious is that love is an emotion, not an action. You can't really command it or will it. You either have it or you don't. Which is why the gospel really isn't about commandments at all, but transformation into loving persons.

 

[Logicman]

And of course the admonition to love one's neighbors isn't even in the 10 Commandments.

But of course Jesus goes even beyond this and says we must love our enemies.

What is even more curious is that love is an emotion, not an action. You can't really command it or will it. You either have it or you don't. Which is why the gospel really isn't about commandments at all, but transformation into loving persons.

I've always said that love is action, not just an emotion. Love isn't really love until you give it away or make it manifest.

Regarding 'loving one's neighbor' not being in the 10 Commandments, Jesus elevated it and 'love God...' to be the two greatest commandments, so I'll take his word on that.

 

[head of joaquin]

I've always said that love is action, not just an emotion. Love isn't really love until you give it away or make it manifest.

Regarding 'loving one's neighbor' not being in the 10 Commandments, Jesus elevated it and 'love God...' to be the two greatest commandments, so I'll take his word on that.

An action can be ethical, beneficial and wonderful, but loveless. That's Paul's point in 1 Cor 15. If the gospel doesn't make you a new creation (a loving person), it really isn't worth anything. It's the only thing that counts. Good conduct comes out of being transformed into a loving person. The conduct itself does nothing. Indeed, what you think is just as important as what you do according to Jesus:

Matt: 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, "You shall not murder'; and "whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, "You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire. 23

This was the genius of Christianity: it created an internal life and realized intentions are as important as outcomes. A concept unknown in the jurisprudence of antiquity.

 

[Surtr]

Like what, banning bacon?
I guess all Christians-porkeaters are going to burn in hell. :lol:

Everything, really. The Ten Commandments was a covenant between the Israelites and their God. In exchange for being brought out of the Pharaoh's captivity, and being granted life in the paradise that was the holy land, all they had to do was follow the Ten Commandments, as well as some other things. A covenant is basically a very serious quid pro quo. God does something for the Israelites, the Israelites do what their God commands of them. If they fail to make good on their end of the bargain, really bad things will happen to them.

The Ten commandments are law, they are the basis of the Jewish laws, but they are not the whole of the law.

 

[Logicman]

An action can be ethical, beneficial and wonderful, but loveless. That's Paul's point in 1 Cor 15. If the gospel doesn't make you a new creation (a loving person), it really isn't worth anything. It's the only thing that counts. Good conduct comes out of being transformed into a loving person. The conduct itself does nothing. Indeed, what you think is just as important as what you do according to Jesus:

Matt: 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, "You shall not murder'; and "whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, "You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire. 23

This was the genius of Christianity: it created an internal life and realized intentions are as important as outcomes. A concept unknown in the jurisprudence of antiquity.

What most skeptics of Christianity still don't get is that it's not the Christian who changes himself into a loving and caring individual, but the Holy Spirit, who indwells the believer. The Holy Spirit is God, and the process of refinement is called progressive sanctification.

 

[head of joaquin]

What most skeptics of Christianity still don't get is that it's not the Christian who changes himself into a loving and caring individual, but the Holy Spirit, who indwells the believer. The Holy Spirit is God, and the process of refinement is called progressive sanctification.

Such is the gospel message. But it has nothing to do with theological doctrines and commandments.

 

[Logicman]

Such is the gospel message. But it has nothing to do with theological doctrines and commandments.

The Holy Spirit enables the believer to be able to discern spiritual truths that deal with the teachings / commandments of God, vs. the teachings of (non-Christian) men.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[head of joaquin]

The Holy Spirit enables the believer to be able to discern spiritual truths that deal with the teachings / commandments of God, vs. the teachings of (non-Christian) men.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

The doctrines of Nicene are just such nonsense, which Paul warns about:


Colossians 2:

16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.

17These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,

19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations,

21Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch

22(referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines?

23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[RGacky3]

Why should the 10 commandments be anymore important than the rest of the mosaic law to christians?

 

[head of joaquin]

Why should the 10 commandments be anymore important than the rest of the mosaic law to christians?

Exactly. That's the problem with law-fetishists. They want to keep the "good" laws (and impose them on others) and pretend the "bad" laws (don't eat shrimp!, stone Sabbath-breakers to death!) are somehow not part of the law.

The NT never references the 10 commandments. It references the Law. And by that, Jews at the time meant the entire Law, the stuff modern Christians find palatable, and the stuff that makes no sense.

It's quite amazing how fundamentalists have rejected antinomianism and have taken a position that Paul explicitly rejects. It indicates what a sad (heretical) state it's in.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Exactly. That's the problem with law-fetishists. They want to keep the "good" laws (and impose them on others) and pretend the "bad" laws (don't eat shrimp!, stone Sabbath-breakers to death!) are somehow not part of the law.

The NT never references the 10 commandments. It references the Law. And by that, Jews at the time meant the entire Law, the stuff modern Christians find palatable, and the stuff that makes no sense.

It's quite amazing how fundamentalists have rejected antinomianism and have taken a position that Paul explicitly rejects. It indicates what a sad (heretical) state it's in.

You should read the NT again, I believe you have missed some significant portions of it....

 

[head of joaquin]

You should read the NT again, I believe you have missed some significant portions of it....

I didn't miss this:

James 2:10 - For whoever keeps
the whole law but fails in one point
has become guilty of all of it.

Did you?

 

[davidtaylorjr]

I didn't miss this:

James 2:10 - For whoever keeps
the whole law but fails in one point
has become guilty of all of it.

Did you?

Context is everything

 

[head of joaquin]

Context is everything

No, glossing is, for a certain Christian sect.