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This story shows why we need to expand death penalty

Datamonkee

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I'm not really sure we should be listening to the British about how to run a country. They can barely take care of the small island they are on, much less a population that is almost 5 times larger living on a land mass that is almost 100 times the size. It's like asking the local PTA to run the state for awhile. It is easy to be all high and mighty about having no death penalty with so few citizens and land mass. Especially with a people that have been bred for centuries thinking that bloodlines make them better than someone else. If your police cannot catch a criminal, they are completely incompetent. Where would they go? If they leave the island (which they do), good riddance, and it's no longer your problem.

http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/statistics35.htm

I wouldn't call the death penalty a deterrence.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=168

I would call it justice. I would call it protective. By removing that element of society that flagrantly violates human rights, you no longer risk that cancer spreading. I completely agree about rapist being added to the death penalty. I also would push for narcotics dealers. Locking them away only limits their victims to other criminals.
 

Willoughby

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IIt is easy to be all high and mighty about having no death penalty with so few citizens and land mass.

i see so big countries need the death penalty and small countries don't. oh i see thats a coherent arguement

Especially with a people that have been bred for centuries thinking that bloodlines make them better than someone else.

see we have got rid of that now...but it the US it seems to have stuck around. Interesting how a dad and son can both be presidents with the other brother a governer of a large state. no bloodlines don't matter at all in the US
 

Datamonkee

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Willoughby said:
i see so big countries need the death penalty and small countries don't. oh i see thats a coherent arguement



see we have got rid of that now...but it the US it seems to have stuck around. Interesting how a dad and son can both be presidents with the other brother a governer of a large state. no bloodlines don't matter at all in the US

When you have a country that has a large number of people, there is no feeling of community. Therefore strangers have less value than they do in smaller countries. When you have an "excess" of people, human life means less. So yes, you need a different structure of laws. A different means of punishment to keep people in line.

Well, considering they (Bush) were voted into office. Bloodlines don't mean squat. Bush, Sr. was voted in first, on the coattails of Reagan. He was from Texas. Jeb is in office in Florida. Different people, little influence here. They were elected by the people on the publicity of their campaigns and platforms. We haven't had a bloodline dynasty since the Kennedy's. They could be the only family in the US that could be considered "royalty". MAYBE the Rockefellars, maybe.
 

Willoughby

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Well, considering they (Bush) were voted into office. Bloodlines don't mean squat. Bush, Sr. was voted in first, on the coattails of Reagan. He was from Texas. Jeb is in office in Florida. Different people, little influence here. They were elected by the people on the publicity of their campaigns and platforms. We haven't had a bloodline dynasty since the Kennedy's. They could be the only family in the US that could be considered "royalty". MAYBE the Rockefellars, maybe.

so the fact that george was a bush no way influenced him winning the parties candidature?
 

cherokee

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craigfarmer said:
quote:

1st degree murder is all you need here...
A jury decides if they are guilty or not and a jury can recommend the DP.

In fact according to

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=10&did=144



you are right that 1st degree murder is a "death eligible crime' in some states technically, but the facts show otherwise:


Between 1979 and 2005 only 60 people have been executed in florida.
As of 3/6/2006 only 366 are on death row in florida .

This is in a state where the avg. numbers of murders EACH YEAR during this period has been over 1,000 per year. That would be over 26,000 murders( not all 1st degree).


People who say the DP doesn't deter are right, but it hasn't been given a chance.

How can you draw your conclusion from the data at www.deathpenaltyinfo.org
All it shows is the murder rate vs. the DP numbers
It gives you no other factors such as how many cases are still in the courts nor does it give you how many pled to a lesser charge.
While the DP might not serve as the all in one deterrent it does serve a purpose.
Case in point you will never lose anyone you know to Ted Bundy.

Over 1000? Where did you see this? I found at the FBI’s site the total murders have not been that high (over 1k) since 1997.

One last note. It cost about $26,000 dollars per year, per person in max confinement. I personal can think of better uses for that money.
 

cherokee

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Come on guys tone it down.. We are having a civil debate..
 

Willoughby

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Case in point you will never lose anyone you know to Ted Bundy.

but you would never if they were but in jail for life
 

cherokee

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Willoughby said:
but you would never if they were but in jail for life

yes but look at how many times he escaped...and kill again
 

Willoughby

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yes but look at how many times he escaped
well stick him in a better jail..its quite simple
 

XShipRider

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craigfarmer said:
The politicians should stop supporting the current system as a defensive measure, and do what's right:

The death penalty should be made fair and effective. Part of this includes applying Capital Punisment to ALL 1st degree murders, RAPES, and other heinous crimes. We need to drastically expand the use of executions to state what we value, and to reduce crime.

Most people are rational and can be deterred from criminal behavior. If the punishment is severe, swift, and consistent, we can change future behavior.

I guess this explains why they hung horse thieves in the old days. Yet
horses still got stolen, cattle got rustled and banks still got robbed.

I am firmly in the anti-death penalty camp. I used to be all for it thinking,
as you, this would help clear out the prisons. No more. There have
been too many death-row inmates proven innocent of their "beyond a
shadow of a doubt" convictions through DNA testing. Even if it was only
one it proves a flaw in our death penalty system.

Can you imagine being wrongly convicted of a crime, sitting on death-row
for 5-10 years, then your 11th hour exoneration comes through because
the DNA test proves "beyond a shadow of a doubt" you DIDN'T do it?!
Apparently all those eye witnesses need glasses. And that wonderful
jury of your peers sends their apologies.

Dear #34981275,
So sorry for the mix up. No hard feelings.
Sincerely,
Juror #4
P.S. If it's any consolation, the other jurors had to convince me you were
the one.

It is so easy for all of us to just sit back and laud the death penalty as the
"fixer upper" of all things criminal.

Before anyone asks, I do not have a ready made fix for the crime problems
of today. I just know the death penalty isn't it.

Can you believe this is coming from a right wing nutjob? It is.
 
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Naughty Nurse

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Korimyr the Rat said:
an armed citizenry is our only protection from overzealous government.

So, let's see if I'm understanding this:

Some people within the USA believe that the USA is the very epitome of democracy, and are willing to invade other countries in order to spread a little of that lovely democracy around.

And yet you need to be armed in order to protect yourselves against the very government that you have so joyously elected. Is it just me who's confused? :confused:
 

Real Korimyr #9

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Naughty Nurse said:
Some people within the USA believe that the USA is the very epitome of democracy, and are willing to invade other countries in order to spread a little of that lovely democracy around.

Yes. As a matter of fact, those are some of the very people I think that I need to be armed to protect myself from.

Look at what they think democracy means-- based on how they've implemented it-- and tell me I'm wrong.

I'd also like to remind you that your government, which you have allowed to disarm you, has been nothing but helpful and supportive in our drive to forcefully impose "democracy" on others. They've also spoken out in defense of our detainment of "illegal combatants" and our use of foreign countries to evade domestic laws concerning human rights.

Tell me... does that make you feel safe?
 

Datamonkee

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Korimyr the Rat said:
Yes. As a matter of fact, those are some of the very people I think that I need to be armed to protect myself from.

Look at what they think democracy means-- based on how they've implemented it-- and tell me I'm wrong.

I'd also like to remind you that your government, which you have allowed to disarm you, has been nothing but helpful and supportive in our drive to forcefully impose "democracy" on others. They've also spoken out in defense of our detainment of "illegal combatants" and our use of foreign countries to evade domestic laws concerning human rights.

Tell me... does that make you feel safe?


Nice! Couldn't have said it better myself! :2wave:
 

Naughty Nurse

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Datamonkee said:
Nice! Couldn't have said it better myself! :2wave:

But hasn't actually enlightened anybody. His original post seemed to suggest that he wishes to protect himself from his OWN government.
 

Datamonkee

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Willoughby said:
so the fact that george was a bush no way influenced him winning the parties candidature?

Oh, I'm sure there were some people that were influenced because of it. The "ol' boy network" always works. It isn't a just a matter of bloodlines though. It was his platform, his own allies, and the fact that his outlook on foreign policy was very much like his father's and the President before him (Ronny Raygun!). Even after the debacle that was Clinton, he barely won the election in the first place. Just listen to the whining of all the Democrats out there. They've even made their very own APPA approved disorder. Post-election Stress Disorder. Believe it or not.
 
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