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This Sounds more like Murder than Capital Punishment

Man, these people are Christian fascists. And they pardoned the Blackwater contractor war criminals. Despicable.
 
Keridan said:
Again, I get your point and appreciate the polite debate. My point is that we could be killing innocents for the sake of a small portion of cases that have true certainty. That's the risk I'm not comfortable with.
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In capital cases the jury should be allowed to come to a finding of guilt or innocence, requiring both Judge and Jury to agree on application of the death penalty, life imprisonment, or the Jury prevailing on anything less.
 
The government executing people is the ultimate authoritarian action. It's cruel and unusual punishment. Totalitarian governments use execution. What are you thinking?

And what is difficult about understanding that it's flat out immoral?
 
Individual said:
In capital cases the jury should be allowed to come to a finding of guilt or innocence, requiring both Judge and Jury to agree on application of the death penalty, life imprisonment, or the Jury prevailing on anything less.
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Again, I appreciate the nice debate, but I have said my piece on this. I wish you the best, but I'm not going to argue the same things I already said. It's definitely a matter of opinion and mine is simple.
 
Keridan said:
Again, I appreciate the nice debate, but I have said my piece on this. I wish you the best, but I'm not going to argue the same things I already said. It's definitely a matter of opinion and mine is simple.
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Mine is quite simple as well, but in the end it is those we elect to govern us who will make such decisions for us, and with so many issues to divide us against one another this issue would have to garner a large enough bloc of voters to actually get politicians to give it much attention after elections, especially at the Federal level of government.
 
Individual said:
Mine is quite simple as well, but in the end it is those we elect to govern us who will make such decisions for us, and with so many issues to divide us against one another this issue would have to garner a large enough bloc of voters to actually get politicians to give it much attention after elections, especially at the Federal level of government.
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That's a pretty good summary of the situation. It also doesn't help that it's a divisive topic, so anyone looking for a re-elect hides from it
 
Antiwar said:
The government executing people is the ultimate authoritarian action. It's cruel and unusual punishment. Totalitarian governments use execution. What are you thinking?

And what is difficult about understanding that it's flat out immoral?
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I don't like the idea of the State murdering people at all. However, I have seen a few positive outcomes from the threat of death resulting in quick guilty pleas by people who obviously did the act. So, it avoids long drawn out trials...but, it's kind of the job of folks in Justice to take cases to trial and not rely on quick guilty pleas to make their lives easier.

Obviously, I am torn on this issue a bit.
 
Luce said:
Wow. lol
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They killed brown people overseas. The Right wants to give people like that a medal, even if the victims were women and children. There's a reason Hillary named them the Deplorables.
 
Grand Mal said:
The topic, and you know this, is the feds contracting out to professional executioners. The Obama administration dragging it's feet about resuming executions of federal prisoners has nothing to do with the topic. And you know this. It's like you think the keyword "execution" triggers an automatic response that brings everything with the word "execution" into play. There's another one like you here who wants to refute me excusing killers because I scorn the practice of hiring contract executioners. Just trying cheap ploys to score imaginary points, that's all it is.
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With respect, the article posted in the link to which I responded said what it said.

If you would like to take issue with that article, that's well and good.

You are free to do so.

All I did was read what it said and post what it said.
 
calamity said:
I don't like the idea of the State murdering people at all. However, I have seen a few positive outcomes from the threat of death resulting in quick guilty pleas by people who obviously did the act. So, it avoids long drawn out trials...but, it's kind of the job of folks in Justice to take cases to trial and not rely on quick guilty pleas to make their lives easier.

Obviously, I am torn on this issue a bit.
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I get conflicted sometimes on individual cases but for me it always comes back to my instinctive mistrust of government. I absolutely hate the idea of the state having the power to execute citizens. When I say my liberalism makes me oppose capital punishment it's not because of tender feelings about the sanctity of life, it's because I don't trust government. At all, not even a little bit. Given the right to execute people the first place the State will use the right is crimes against itself- treason, espionage, sedition, etc. It's the ultimate expression of government authority, the power of life and death.
It's amusing how people who favour giving the State the most power call those who resist government authority "statists".
 
Grand Mal said:
I get conflicted sometimes on individual cases but for me it always comes back to my instinctive mistrust of government. I absolutely hate the idea of the state having the power to execute citizens. When I say my liberalism makes me oppose capital punishment it's not because of tender feelings about the sanctity of life, it's because I don't trust government. At all, not even a little bit. Given the right to execute people the first place the State will use the right is crimes against itself- treason, espionage, sedition, etc. It's the ultimate expression of government authority, the power of life and death.
It's amusing how people who favour giving the State the most power call those who resist government authority "statists".
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Yeah, that's the thing. It won't end at just executing murderers. Not when the feds get in the mix.
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah right. Reductio ad absurdum- thinking It's barbarically medieval for the government to contract professional executioners means thinking criminals shouldn't pay for their crimes.
Coming up to ten years here and you have yet to learn the simplest things about logical fallacy.
Iran is a conservative paradise. It's the kind of place good conservatives go to when they die. Seriously, look into it. How hard could it be to learn Farsi?
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Are you freaking kidding me? We hire private contractors for EVERYTHING! The government LOVES private contractors because it gives them someone to blame when things go wrong.
 
code1211 said:
This executed person seems to be particularly qualified to have received this sort of send off.
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Does Trump even have any Senate confirmed cabinet members left? Grapple with that before spewing stupid shit like the post above.
 
Lutherf said:
Are you freaking kidding me? We hire private contractors for EVERYTHING! The government LOVES private contractors because it gives them someone to blame when things go wrong.
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Are you replying to the wrong post? 'Cause I can't see what you've said here having anything to do with what I said. Well, I did call hiring professional executioners 'barbarically medievel' but you don't contradict that at all.
What I'm getting at is no, I'm not freaking kidding you.
 
Does any Right Winger at all take issue with a lawless administration executing people at record pace? It is truly bizarre to see the absolute moral vacancy of the Far Right these days.
 
calamity said:
Leave it to Trump and Sons to lower the Barr.



Private executioners paid in cash...wtf?

It gets worse.

www.propublica.org

Inside Trump and Barr’s Last-Minute Killing Spree

Private executioners paid in cash. Middle-of-the-night killings. False or incomplete justifications. ProPublica obtained court records showing how the outgoing administration is using its final days to execute the most federal prisoners since World War II.
www.propublica.org www.propublica.org
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In the U.S. executing death row inmates while appeals are still ongoing is not uncommon. Read about Gary Gilmore (the first person executed when the Supreme Court allowed executions to resume).
 
calamity said:
Does any Right Winger at all take issue with a lawless administration executing people at record pace? It is truly bizarre to see the absolute moral vacancy of the Far Right these days.
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No. Though I have turned against the death penalty in the last year or two. Not for moral reasons but because of the possibility (however remote) of an innocent person being executed.

I would like to replace the death penalty with life in prison in solitary confinement. naked.

U.S. courts have repeatedly ruled that solitary confinement IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

I've even drawn up some plans for prison cells for those in lifetime solitary confinement.
 
Dayton3 said:
No. Though I have turned against the death penalty in the last year or two. Not for moral reasons but because of the possibility (however remote) of an innocent person being executed.

I would like to replace the death penalty with life in prison in solitary confinement. naked.

U.S. courts have repeatedly ruled that solitary confinement IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

I've even drawn up some plans for prison cells for those in lifetime solitary confinement.
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Sorry, but the Trump administration is no loner legitimate and therefore lawlessly murdering people.
 
calamity said:
Sorry, but the Trump administration is no loner legitimate and therefore lawlessly murdering people.
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The Trump administration is "legitimate" as long as President Trump is in office. It can be no other way.
 
Dayton3 said:
The Trump administration is "legitimate" as long as President Trump is in office. It can be no other way.
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Nope. Outside of HUD and Treasury, he has no cabinet members who were ratified by the Senate. Lawless, by definition.
 
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