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This just in: Romney tells the truth; People don't like it...

I

IndepCentristMA

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So all along we have been hearing all this crap about politicians as liars and why can't they come out and say what they mean...


Here we have several instances of comments Romney makes, candidly, where he speaks the absolute truth, and is complete right about it... but it's turned into a big uproar, and Mitt Romney is being called stupid to make those remarks... You know, the ones that the overwhelming majority of us think...


So what is it... did you want a politician to speak honestly... or did you want the wool pulled over your eyes again?



Obama lies to you, promising the moon, but delivering only Swiss cheese... Now we have $16T in debt, stagnant employment figures while many are dropping out of the workforce altogether, and crippling fuel prices which are higher than most Americans can afford to spend...

In the meantime, Obama has been taking tax money from the hard working people, and giving it to those who are either "less fortunate"... or didn't do what they were supposed to in order to afford their basic necessities...


Think Ant and the Cricket... Obama would rather take from the Ants and give to the Crickets without the Cricket having to pay a price, Romney says let the Ants keep what they've earned and we all should do as they do...


So now, in order to distract from the main points of the election, like the economy, the job numbers, his record, and his foreign policy failures, the president and his followers are trying to harp on every word Romney says, as if Romney is being deceitful about his real intentions...

On the contrary... Romney is coming right out and telling you what you ought to hear, but you're not enjoying it... We need to cut spending, since we are spending too much... We need to revise the tax code and make it simpler, flatter, and fairer... We need to revise the entitlement programs to prevent a massive spike in debt as the result of unfunded liabilities...

Yet, the MSM is inaccurately portraying these things as mistakes by Romney...


Mitt Romney is right - we need to revise the tax code and the entitlement programs, not only can we not afford to, but they're creating major problems with government dependence... Oh, but for some reason we can't offend the poor those precious creatures who are all innocent hard working Americans that did what they were supposed to in school and would never break the law or continually repeat negtive behaviors....

Mitt Romney is right - we need to worry that the ethnic groups will end up voting as ethnic groups, rather than to vote as individuals based on principals that they would like to see followed... Most Hispanics agree in principal on most issues that Republicans do, yet for the reason of conformity and popularity they're following the liberal agenda... This would be a travesty if yet another ethnic group gets nearly entirely sucked into a single party as their... Oh, but for some reason its considered okay to reach out to them and ask them how issues effect these ethnic groups as a whole... but not refer to them as members of an ethnic group, and measure how that ethnic group reacts...

Mitt Romney is right - to call out the president for his negligence in protecting American embassies on the anniversary of 9/11, and for his weak apologetic foreign policy positions, which lead to the appearance of weakness that encourages attacks, or leads us into freindships with foreign dignitaries who don't have our best interests in mind... Oh, but the liberal media whined about it being too soon, or Obama not saying the actual words "I apologize"... way to get the large picture.... You still didn't get it when the violence spread to 20 other countries...


Romney is the one who is being accurate in his commentary, it is the liberal media that are mishandling these stories... They're on the side of the generationally impoverished government dependents, the indignant immigrants who come to this contry but dont want to adapt to it, and the negligent leaders who failed to provide security in volitaile areas despite reports of potential violence occuring on a major terrorism threat watch day...


Here's a spoof article by the Onion attempting to discredit Romney for his comments... Only... when you read the comments it further enhances Romney's point...

Romney Apologizes To Nation's 150 Million 'Starving, Filthy Beggars' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
"The Romney campaign reportedly scrambled into damage-control mode after the video leaked Monday, issuing a statement late last night stating that the intended target of Romney’s remarks was ingrained big-government largesse, not the “hordes of uneducated, loathsome scum who unfortunately populate this country.”

That's exactly how it really is... and I wish Romney had said it nearly as accurate as that...


Nearly 50% of the people in this country do not pay taxes... 50% of earners of taxable income pay an effective tax rate of 2.5%... That's an astonishing amount...



Think of the precedent that sends...




We need to do something about this, and the time to do it is now... That's what Romney is doing... taking the leadership of this issue by the horns... while the president is still pretending to be Robin Hood...

 
And what do voters do when they don't like what a political candidate says?
 
I didn't most of your post because it reeks with incompetent rage, but how thin skinned do you have to be to get upset at an article on The Onion.
 
Romney is right.

The people that think they're entitled to handouts will vote for Obama no matter what.

I don't see anything wrong with him saying that.
 
Wiseone said:
I didn't most of your post because it reeks with incompetent rage
Click to expand...

And right wing rhetoric.

RepubConservMA is more mad than usual today.

This idea that you vote for Obama to get handouts is ludicrous lol.

He's didn't invent welfare or food stamps, these aren't new things...

After the biggest economic crisis since the great depression with the amount of people that lost their jobs it's only natural so many people would be on some form of government assistance...

It's also a fallacy to believe that, that 47% of people that don't pay FIT (Federal Income Tax), because all people pay some form of taxes, nessecarily means they're on government assistance.

RepubConservMA, I hate labels, please come out of the closet and just admit you're a far right winger... your rhetoric gives you away and I don't give a damn if you voted for a democrat two decades ago.
 
Jetboogieman said:
And right wing rhetoric.

RepubConservMA is more mad than usual today.

This idea that you vote for Obama to get handouts is ludicrous lol.
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yeah.... that is definitely not something that is out there.....




He's didn't invent welfare or food stamps, these aren't new things...
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no, but his administration has done everything it can to expand food stamp enrollment, and has taken (illegal, I suspect) actions to help remove the work requirements in Welfare, making both of them more of a "handout" than when he found them.

It's also a fallacy to believe that, that 47% of people that don't pay FIT (Federal Income Tax), because all people pay some form of taxes, nessecarily means they're on government assistance.
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well i guess it matters how you count. what if your income tax rate is negative, but your payroll tax rate is positive, but the money you get back from your tax return is greater than the money you paid out in all other taxes? :shrug: in that situation, I'd say the tax code is a government benefit to you.





Look, it's not exactly a new idea that those who are on government programs tend to vote for the party of government. That was explicitly the political logic behind Obamacare - that if the voters hate it now wait until they get on it and start getting subsidies and free stuff from their insurance companies, and then they'll reward us. We have seen the same assumption behind every Democrat licking their chops over Ryan being the VP pick because they can run on Mediscare. So when Democrats say "if we put people on a government program, they'll vote for us" it's okay, but when Republicans say "those people on government programs are more likely to vote Democrat" it's wrong? :roll:
 
cpwill said:
yeah.... that is definitely not something that is out there.....
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For every one video you show me of an Obama supporter saying something conentious I'll give you 10 of tea Party and Conservative supporters saying something stupid.

This is about the 10th time in the last 4 years someone has posted that video, to make the point that Obama and his supporters favour socialism or... something.

Now I could go through all the reasons why that video is constantly taken out of context but I doubt it'd do much good with you so I'll let you post your little youtube video and we'll move on.



and has taken (illegal, I suspect) actions to help remove the work requirements in Welfare
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Well as long as you suspect it, we can close the case on that one :lol:


Aight... Doesn't mean government assistance.

Which was the point I was making.


Look.

We can talk about Obamacare all day, but I don't buy this Obamacare thing being a handout considering he handed over every American citizen on a silver platter to the HMO's.

And I also don't exactly buy this whole "Democrats are the party of Government and Republicans are the party of boot straps and personal responsibility".

If that's the case why have the Republicans made no conserted effort to get rid of all welfare and entitlements, sure they "reformed" it in the 90's but at the top level somebody realized they are nessecary for the system to function. Not only that but you had a Republican president enact Medicare Part D

And the idea that people on government programs only vote democrat is quite a fallacy when one considers the elderly, who are on SS tend to vote Republican and are largely pulling for Romney at this time.

U.S. Presidential Election Center


----------------Obama---Romney
65+ years -----41 ----------52
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Nearly 50% of the people in this country do not pay taxes... 50% of earners of taxable income pay an effective tax rate of 2.5%... That's an astonishing amount...
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first exposed lie, only 50% do not pay income tax, that however is not the only tax that people pay. So your claim that 50% do not pay taxes is nonsense (republi-goggled BS).
 
Peter King said:
first exposed lie, only 50% do not pay income tax, that however is not the only tax that people pay. So your claim that 50% do not pay taxes is nonsense (republi-goggled BS).
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Romney specifically said income tax. And I am 100% certain that IndepCentristMA knows that also, the word just didn't make it in.
 
Jetboogieman said:
For every one video you show me of an Obama supporter saying something conentious I'll give you 10 of tea Party and Conservative supporters saying something stupid.
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bingo, and stupid people are motivated by stupid things. but the fact remains that Obama does wish to expand the entitlement/welfare state, and that people do vote for him for that. that was simply one particularly entertaining example.

This is about the 10th time in the last 4 years someone has posted that video, to make the point that Obama and his supporters favour socialism or... something.
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like a fine wine, it ages well.

Well as long as you suspect it, we can close the case on that one :lol:
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The HHS claims the authority through Section 1115 of the Social Security Law (42 U.S.C. 1315) to alter Section 407 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), the section that deals with the work provisions. Section 1115 gives the authority to the Secretary to do alter said provisions. Unfortunately, said provisions must be listed in Section 1115 of 42 U.S.C. 1315 in order to fall under the Secretary's authority in Section 1115, and Section 407 of the PRWORA is not listed in that section. Section 402 of the PRWORA (the portion that deals with reporting requirements) is, but the Congress (and the President who signed the bill into law) explicitly refused to place section 407 of the PRWORA in Section 115 of USC 1315 in order to ensure that the Sec HHS could not modify it post-passage. The Secretary has made alterations to a US Statute that she is not authorized to make - she has broken the law.

Aight... Doesn't mean government assistance.

Which was the point I was making.
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well there are a bunch of different situations here, and he listed them. I think it's interesting that the folks who wish to make this more negative are implicitly assuming an "and" in between each descriptor, as though Romney thinks that every single one of those who don't pay income taxes are also on welfare and feel entitled to free housing.


I agree with you on the senior thing - and it's one of the reasons why I think the implicit addition of the "and" is inaccurate. However, you are definitely wrong about the political theorizing that went on about the future electoral benefits of Obamacare - between the "everyone stay on your parents insurance", "free birth control", and the government subsidy for the middle class to go into the exchanges and purchase health insurance, there was a definite belief that by making a large portion of the populace see a direct fiscal benefit from Obamacare, that its' popularity would become that of Social Security and Medicare.

Why didn't Republicans make a concerted effort to get rid of entitlements? Because the Democrat Strategy works. People are more loss-averse than they are gain-attracted.

I don't know if I would call Republicans the party of personal responsibility. All too often they are the party of its' second cousin - big business. But Democrats are definitely the party of government.
 
Aint payroll tax a tax on income?
 

I'm still not sure Romney was telling the truth. He was speaking to the mega wealthy trying to get money out of them. Also, those who do not pay income tax are not all poor and lazy. There are some rich in that group as well as lower working class. There are a lot of hard working people in that group, so to assume that everyone who does not pay income tax are lazy welfare folks is a wrong assumption. It is also a very wrong assumption to think that the only people voting for Obama are the ones who expect hand outs. However, there are plenty of mega welathy that are expecting hand outs from the politiicains they support, that is why they hand over so much money to these campaigns. When it comes to hand outs, more of our tax money goes to hand outs for the rich than it does for the poor. Also, before you complain too much about tax benefits for the working poor like EIC, that was a repiblican idea which was a part of welfare to work reform.
Romney has also shown he is a horrible leader, he can't even lead his own campaign correctly. He has made so many mistakes along the way that I am begining to think he is trying to lose this race. He has raised a huge amount of money, so maybe he is just trying to make more money from this election and really doesn't want to win.
The people voting for Obama in this election are doing so because they see him as a better leader than Romney, and he is trying to do something to rebuild the economy. It is clear to me that the GOP could care less if the economy causes the middle class and poor to suffer more, because the rich have made out like bandits.
 
So the guy who declares his political leaning to be "other" is calling out a conservative to admit he is conservative??

Does this not demonstrate the complete lack of logic manifest by DEM supporters? And does it not demonstrate that most DEM leftists want to pull some sort of veneer over their REAL political agenda so they won't appear as looney as they are?

Come out from behind your "other" shield and admit you are a typical kool-aid drinking Obama sycophant. You are not fooling anyone with a brain.
 

I'm a South African, British, Canadian with enough world experience to realize that labels are an extremely ignorant way of relating to people.

I say what I said not to have any form of conversation with the OP but just to annoy him a bit.

I don't believe in labels, Liberals or Conservatives, because in the end they can mean so many different things to different people, places and times.

If you can label someone, it usually leads most posters on this site to associate all the baggage associated with that label to that person, therefore making a conversation with that person incredibly difficult.

Again all that was said, was only to annoy the OP.
 
Aberration said:
Romney specifically said income tax. And I am 100% certain that IndepCentristMA knows that also, the word just didn't make it in.
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You might think he meant that, I am not so sure and anyway, I responded to what was written, not what he might have possibly meant.
 
As we all know, in politics there is truth and then there is TRUTH - I wonder just which 'truth' Romney was using at his little get-together in Boca

Want to guess which American politician said the following about the EITC, that provision which allows many low-income Americans to escape paying federal income taxes?
“the best antipoverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.
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WOW - Even MORE spouted lies of the GOP and mega rich.

Paying 17% FICA tax off the top before other taxes is not 2.5%.

paying a 40% tax on a scooter like I just paid (sales tax 10% and licence fees) is paying plenty of taxes. Do you pay 40% taxes on a BMW?

Why should retired people pay Fed income taxes? (they are part of your 47%)
Why should those that cant get by (<$20k income) pay Fed income taxes when they can afford a real home?

Please name the place where Obama (as part of his record) fired 750 people?
or lowered wages from **** $10.22 hr to min wage and eliminated all Beni's?

All part of the BAIN - ROmney record

Special report: Romney's steel skeleton in the Bain closet | Reuters

thats enough debunking for you........
 
The op starts from the erroneous premise of "the overwhelming majority" thinking as they do.

There is certainly no overwhelming majority who agrees with Romney's remarks, judging by the media response and empirical observation I would venture to think only about 1/4 agree totally with his assessment of people who are not paying income tax, and maybe another 1/4 who agree with it with some reservations and a good half who are against it. This is the hallmark of a division in this country not support.

FWIW in my view, he doesn't understand my life at all, his avarice, arrogance, and ignorance shows a poor picture of him. I pay about $200 a week in taxes, sure a fair portion of that will be refunded, but a fair portion won't.

Now Romney has put his argument that people who pay no income taxes won't vote for him because they dont see the benefits from it. That is totally not the reason I am against his tax policy because I need to pay more taxes and so does everyone else until everyone has a job, there is no debt, and all the bridges are fixed.
 
Ah, yes. It was bound to happen. Romney's campaign has become such a feckin train wreck that they have now trotted out the Howard Cosell talking point, "Telling it like it is." In real terms telling it like it is translates to pap and drivel. It means whatever you want it to mean, but it has no real substance. The bombastic Cosell used telling it like it is to self promote his way to becoming a sportscasting icon. He became a caricature of himself. It worked for Cosell because it was his schtick and Howard could back it up. It was entertainment. Imagine Algore telling it like it is with no conviction whatsoever and you have Mitt Romney.
 
Media response is a piss-poor indicator. Not too long ago they raised a huge stink over Chik-fil-a and gay marriage. Protests were planned, city government officials lashed out against the chain, there was no place in America for such intolerance.

Boycotts were called for, and in the end, Americans voted with their wallets letting the restaurant know exactly how they felt - "sales record"... "record profits"... not quite the outcome the media were looking for.
 
Peter King said:
You might think he meant that, I am not so sure and anyway, I responded to what was written, not what he might have possibly meant.
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Yeah I know. It would have been too reasonable given the topic and what Romney said about income tax to makes such a reasonable assumption.
 
Wiseone said:
I didn't most of your post because it reeks with incompetent rage, but how thin skinned do you have to be to get upset at an article on The Onion.
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Perfect... You form an opinion without all of the facts... (isn't that something you just attempted to criticize Romney for doing?)

Although, when you complete distort what I said, I'm pretty sure I don't want you reading anything else...

I'm not upset at the Onion article... I found it hilarious... and still nearly 100% accurate... what I said is I kinda wish Romney had come out and said what it said in certain portions of that article...

So, given your ignorance to what I said and the faulty comprehension skills you displayed here, I'm gonna spare myself a full response...
 
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