This is why.... (1 Viewer)

[tecoyah]

Christianity is getting a bad name. Attempting to turn back the clock on science simply because it does not agree with religious belief has been tried many times in the past. Personally, I compare this to the centrist Earth scenario of the middle ages.

"Nairobi - The global debate between scientists and conservative Christians over evolution has hit Kenya, where an exhibit of one of the world's finest collections of early hominid fossils is under threat.

As the famed National Museum of Kenya (NMK) prepares to re-open next year after massive EU-funded renovations, evangelicals are demanding the display be removed or at least shunted to a less prominent location.

The Origins Of Man exhibit, comprised of pre-historic finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say."

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=87&art_id=qw1157357884508A162

If you dont like the science,fine ignore it,but DO NOT try to remove it from the eyes of the rest of the world......grow up.

"Galileo Galilei (February 15, 1564 – January 8, 1642) was an Italian physicist, astronomer, astrologer, and philosopher who is closely associated with the scientific revolution. His achievements include improvements to the telescope, a variety of astronomical observations, the first and second laws of motion, and effective support for Copernicanism. He has been referred to as the "father of modern astronomy", as the "father of modern physics", and as the "father of science". Galileo's career coincided with that of Johannes Kepler.

The work of Galileo is considered to be a significant break from that of Aristotle. In addition, his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church is taken as a major early example of the conflict of authority and freedom of thought, particularly with science, in Western society."

 

[ngdawg]

Of all places!!!! You would think (but then again, I'm talking logic here) that the most central area's denizens (in terms of anthropological findings) would be proud of something like this.
There seems to be some overriding fear that I liken to the 'Russky threats' of the 50's that makes what used to be rational people think irrationally-in cases like this that somehow the foundation of their beliefs is being eroded.
Preposterous. Since when did science become the invading alien they all must fight?

 

[justone]

Christianity is getting a bad name. Attempting to turn back the clock on science simply because it does not agree with religious belief has been tried many times in the past. Personally, I compare this to the centrist Earth scenario of the middle ages.

"Nairobi - The global debate between scientists and conservative Christians over evolution has hit Kenya, where an exhibit of one of the world's finest collections of early hominid fossils is under threat.

As the famed National Museum of Kenya (NMK) prepares to re-open next year after massive EU-funded renovations, evangelicals are demanding the display be removed or at least shunted to a less prominent location.

The Origins Of Man exhibit, comprised of pre-historic finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say."

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=87&art_id=qw1157357884508A162

If you dont like the science,fine ignore it,but DO NOT try to remove it from the eyes of the rest of the world......grow up.

"Galileo Galilei (February 15, 1564 – January 8, 1642) was an Italian physicist, astronomer, astrologer, and philosopher who is closely associated with the scientific revolution. His achievements include improvements to the telescope, a variety of astronomical observations, the first and second laws of motion, and effective support for Copernicanism. He has been referred to as the "father of modern astronomy", as the "father of modern physics", and as the "father of science". Galileo's career coincided with that of Johannes Kepler.

The work of Galileo is considered to be a significant break from that of Aristotle. In addition, his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church is taken as a major early example of the conflict of authority and freedom of thought, particularly with science, in Western society."

Not bad, not bad... I think this time I would agree with you.. I have no time to take it apart. My concern is that if I do, you may loose your self-estim, and in the result I would loose a friend. I would rather let it slide, than loose you as a friend... And actually, it is not bad at all... if to compare to the past.

 

[tecoyah]

Not bad, not bad... I think this time I would agree with you.. I have no time to take it apart. My concern is that if I do, you may loose your self-estim, and in the result I would loose a friend. I would rather let it slide, than loose you as a friend... And actually, it is not bad at all... if to compare to the past.

Please justone....destroy my self worth with your evaluation of this posting. I have become a bit too cocky of late, and need one of your.....status to help me see the error of my thought process. Any assistance in this from a "Freind" would be very much appreciated.

 

[Tashah]

It seems to me that the only reason religionist's could possibly fear science... would be the dread that science can somehow deconstruct their God. If it is possible for science to accomplish this, then their premise of an omniscient God is a false premise to begin with.

 

[justone]

Please justone....destroy my self worth with your evaluation of this posting. I have become a bit too cocky of late, and need one of your.....status to help me see the error of my thought process. Any assistance in this from a "Freind" would be very much appreciated.

My strong impression was that you were loosing a lot of your cockiness.
( Joke - just cannot help myself whatever stupid it is: in order to see an error in a process one has to see a process - just for sake of picking up on you - has nothing to do to reasoning - I hope you smile rather than getting sad)
Please, please give me some time - it is boring - but I may try to be an assistance to your thought process.
BTW - one thing - what denomination ''conservative Christians'' belong to?

 

[justone]

It seems to me that the only reason religionist's could possibly fear science... would be the dread that science can somehow deconstruct their God.

Since religionists and ''conservative Christians'' are so sure that God is omniscient , it would be reasonable to suggest that they do not have a slightest fear of science, as it is often pictured. Is that fear anywhere in the Bible?

If it is possible for science to accomplish this, then their premise of an omniscient God is a false premise to begin with.

If they do not understand such a simple thing, it is reasonable to suggest that they are completely stupid and ignorant. But, if their comlpete stupiduty and ignorance are not a surely observed fact, it is reasonable to suggest that they do understand such a simple thing. Galileo Galilei was a very conservative Christian, a close freind and confidant of the higher Church circles, was not he? Newton was all in theology, was not he?
Leibniz did not care as much about his tremendous input in math, as he cared about his conservative Christian views, ha.
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Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.
Pope John Paul II

 

[tenseconds]

Of all places!!!! You would think (but then again, I'm talking logic here) that the most central area's denizens (in terms of anthropological findings) would be proud of something like this.
There seems to be some overriding fear that I liken to the 'Russky threats' of the 50's that makes what used to be rational people think irrationally-in cases like this that somehow the foundation of their beliefs is being eroded.
Preposterous. Since when did science become the invading alien they all must fight?

We're being stepped on by the power elites. We need to reassert ourselves.

 

[tenseconds]

It seems to me that the only reason religionist's could possibly fear science... would be the dread that science can somehow deconstruct their God. If it is possible for science to accomplish this, then their premise of an omniscient God is a false premise to begin with.

Most church going people don't do science in the context of enabling them to be more free.

 

[128shot]

It seems to me that the only reason religionist's could possibly fear science... would be the dread that science can somehow deconstruct their God. If it is possible for science to accomplish this, then their premise of an omniscient God is a false premise to begin with.

Don't need science to tell you that

 

[MrFungus420]

Most church going people don't do science in the context of enabling them to be more free.

Ah, yes. Because ignorance is a sure path to freedom... :roll:

 

[justone]

tecoyah, The Janitor, first you asked for my assistance; now you are ignoring my question. The question was : what denomination does call itself
“ conservative Christians”?

 

[tecoyah]

tecoyah, The Janitor, first you asked for my assistance; now you are ignoring my question. The question was : what denomination does call itself
“ conservative Christians”?

I actually considered this a Joke....but as your confusion was serious, I will comply. A conservative Christian does not seem to me a denomination at all, as the Church itself does not designate it as such. I do not believe I have used the term myself, as I dont really think such a thing is important (other than setting a label on some arbitrary group of people), but if I did indeed type such a thing...please let me know, and I will attempt to explain the context it was used in.
If there is some underlying reason which can be understood by english speaking peoples, for your descision to ask me this question....I would be interested in what it might be.Please....clarify.

 

[justone]

I actually considered this a Joke....but as your confusion was serious, I will comply. A conservative Christian does not seem to me a denomination at all, as the Church itself does not designate it as such. I do not believe I have used the term myself, as I dont really think such a thing is important (other than setting a label on some arbitrary group of people), but if I did indeed type such a thing...please let me know, and I will attempt to explain the context it was used in.

No, I don’t think you did , - that’s why I dared to call you “my friend”… You did not like the name and I dropped it… I would not call you a name you don’t call yourself, unless I want to put myself in a position of your enemy, or, at least, to demonstrate my opposition to you. I look at it in the same way as you do, - setting an arbitrary label.
You remember - I rudely tried to express a suspicion that you were a chimp; then, no less rudely, I called you ‘’my friend”, - both were names you do not recognize to be fitting for yourself, but, at least one of them, chimp, was an announcement of my opposition, hostility towards you. It did not look like my rudeness had no importance to you in our conversation, - you can look up your answers then.
Problem #1: the author of your article is setting a label. The author looks to be very bias against one side, highlighting her attitude. No explanation of a context is given, it is spoken as a self evident thing for certain circles of individuals. You source is looking bias and hostile towards one of 2 sides of the “debate”. But let us suggest it is just a mishap -- let us see if our suspicion may be confirmed by other passages of the article:

Question # 2: We see “”conservative”’ is, at least, a very loose and inaccurate name; who are the ‘’scientists’’ in the article? What is the “denomination’’ of scientists, she is talking about, - do they include mathematicians and physicists? Are mathematicians and physicists in a ‘’global debate” over evolution with those, who are labeled as “conservative Christians”?

If you say yes, – Question #3: Can you show me the part of mathematical and/or related to physics apparatus of evolution, existing and causing “conservatives” to “debate”? What part of math or physics do ‘’conservatives’’ dare to debate?

If there is some underlying reason which can be understood by english speaking peoples, for your descision to ask me this question....I would be interested in what it might be.Please....clarify.

P.S. You don’t have to run your ''NOLO COMPREHENDE by english speaking peoples'' argument/banner in each and every answer, if you are really interested in my view. You good English and my bad English are self evident and well established facts, I’ve never argued. I don’t know what work you have done to learn another language at least on the same level as I have done to learn English; but I do hard work, when I type English, - it is up to you if you wish to do some work figuring out, what I am talking about; - most of educated people don’t have essential problems communicating with me. Just ask to clarify, and I will. You suspected an underlying reason - and it was there, - you understood not my language, but something which was hidden and was not spoken yet, - I hope you would have a better trust in yourself from now on.

 

[justone]

I actually considered this a Joke....but as your confusion was serious, I will comply. A conservative Christian does not seem to me a denomination at all, as the Church itself does not designate it as such. I do not believe I have used the term myself, as I dont really think such a thing is important (other than setting a label on some arbitrary group of people), but if I did indeed type such a thing...please let me know, and I will attempt to explain the context it was used in.

No, I don’t think you did , - that’s why I dared to call you “my friend”… You did not like the name and I dropped it… I would not call you a name you don’t call yourself, unless I want to put myself in a position of your enemy, or, at least, to demonstrate my opposition to you. I look at it in the same way as you do, - setting an arbitrary label.
You remember - I rudely tried to express a suspicion that you were a chimp; then, no less rudely, I called you ‘’my friend”, - both were names you do not recognize to be fitting for yourself, but, at least one of them, chimp, was an announcement of my opposition, hostility towards you. It did not look like my rudeness had no importance to you in our conversation, - you can look up your answers then.
Problem #1: the author of your article is setting a label. The author looks to be very bias against one side, highlighting her attitude. No explanation of a context is given, the label was given as a self evident thing for certain circles of individuals. You source is looking bias and hostile towards one of 2 sides of the “debate”. But let us suggest it is just a mishap -- let us see if our suspicion may be confirmed by other passages of the article:

Question # 2: We see “”conservative”’ is, at least, a very loose and inaccurate name; who are the ‘’scientists’’ in the article? What is the “denomination’’ of scientists, she is talking about, - do they include mathematicians and physicists? Are mathematicians and physicists in a ‘’global debate” over evolution with those, who are labeled as “conservative Christians”?

If you say yes, – Question #3: Can you show me the part of mathematical and/or related to physics apparatus of evolution, existing and causing “conservatives” to “debate”? What part of math or physics do ‘’conservatives’’ dare to debate?

If there is some underlying reason which can be understood by english speaking peoples, for your descision to ask me this question....I would be interested in what it might be.Please....clarify.

P.S. You don’t have to run your ''NOLO COMPREHENDE by english speaking peoples'' argument/banner in each and every answer, if you are really interested in my view. You good English and my bad English are self evident and well established facts, I’ve never argued. I don’t know what work you have done to learn another language at least on the same level as I have done to learn English; but I do hard work, when I type English, - it is up to you if you wish to do some work figuring out, what I am talking about; - most of educated people don’t have essential problems communicating with me. Just ask to clarify, and I will. You suspected an underlying reason - and it was there, - you understood not only my language, but something which was hidden and was not spoken yet, - I hope you would have a better trust in yourself from now on.

 

[dthmstr254]

Don't put something that tries to mimic science when it hasn't been proven through either avenue of scientific methods. Assuming that a collection of fossils begets a timeline is not science. I want to see something tangible before I believe evolution even counts as a theory. So far, it makes a nice hypothesis. Hows about we make this actually a philosophical question.

Why are people afraid of being subject to a higher power?

 

[justone]

Don't put something that tries to mimic science when it hasn't been proven through either avenue of scientific methods. Assuming that a collection of fossils begets a timeline is not science. I want to see something tangible before I believe evolution even counts as a theory. So far, it makes a nice hypothesis. Hows about we make this actually a philosophical question.

Why are people afraid of being subject to a higher power?

You had to spoil everything, didn't you? I had been preparing to take tecoyah apart carefully piece by piece. But you had to walk in with a big hammer …

 

[Apostle13]

Why are people afraid of being subject to a higher power?

Excellent question... To each his/her own answer.
As for myself I do not doubt this "higher power"/the existence thereof. I more aptly wonder is it that they are "afraid", or rather merely product of self convenience in that they may define their own moral high ground..? Thus countering the violations, convictions, of a God given conscience. Hence rendering themselves god... Their own.

 

[justone]

As for myself I do not doubt this "higher power"/the existence thereof. .

One of the most outstanding mathematicians of all times said once: ‘’it is quite evident that existence can no more be separated from the essence of God than the fact that its three angles equal two right angles can be separated from the essence of a triangle, or than the idea of a mountain can be separated from idea of a valley. Hence it is just as much of a contradiction to think of God (that is, a supremely perfect being) lacking existence (that is, lacking a perfection), as it is to think of a mountain without a valley’’

There are some self-evident things given to us... It is quite evident, if you have a grip on math. And it is not, if you still live by your own superstitions... like there is no math, there is no count 1,2,3...

 

[justone]

Originally Posted by dthmstr254
Why are people afraid of being subject to a higher power?

The idea is, I guess, they are afraid of loosing something, if they ‘surrender”’, - their freedom, and their independence, ... - it is like there is something which controls them??? It is like they would have to become slaves??? I guess it comes from superstitions??? It is like you walking in an art museum and you are afraid of your feeling of beauty???? Why would anybody be afraid to surrender to the highest perfection??? Difficult question… I would have to give it a thought… But it would be interesting to hear from those who rebels… against the perfection and the beauty of the whole equation...

I myself cannot imagine ....

 

[dthmstr254]

Originally Posted by dthmstr254
Why are people afraid of being subject to a higher power?

The idea is, I guess, they are afraid of loosing something, if they ‘surrender”’, - their freedom, and their independence, ... - it is like there is something which controls them??? It is like they would have to become slaves??? I guess it comes from superstitions??? It is like you walking in an art museum and you are afraid of your feeling of beauty???? Why would anybody be afraid to surrender to the highest perfection??? Difficult question… I would have to give it a thought… But it would be interesting to hear from those who rebels… against the perfection and the beauty of the whole equation...

I myself cannot imagine ....

Well, you touch in very close to my ersonal hypothesis. However, we are always willing to go in to a job with a boss who will treat us like our very existence is mud to them for money. However, becoming subject to a higher power as I believe Him to exist offers a better payoff (heaven and eternal life) and a boss who loves you. To me its a no brainer.

 

[dthmstr254]

You had to spoil everything, didn't you? I had been preparing to take tecoyah apart carefully piece by piece. But you had to walk in with a big hammer …

I never was one to be subtle. I like to get straight down to the point. That might be why I like ASL and deaf culture, because deaf people start specific, and then expand to become more general. :rofl