• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This is not a bad summary of left versus right

Nickyjo said:
Correction
Left: we’ll help organize the weak to try to challenge whatever systems keep them down.
Right: we’ll make sure the weak stay that way
Click to expand...

What "systems" are keeping the weak from becoming not weak?
 
Lloyd Christmas said:
Of cours,e like every other right wing bullshit, complete fiction. some of the weakest, most pathetic people out there, are republican base. Overweight, very poor, drug addiction running rampant, drain on healthcare, don't have good paying jobs, crumbling small towns. But of course, to them, their problems are all the blame of people of color, immigrants and liberals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Republican base is really poor, and therefore opposes increasing taxes on the rich so they can get free healthcare. Brilliant plan.
 
Tlrmln said:
What "systems" are keeping the weak from becoming not weak?
Click to expand...
Right to work laws, recent voting restrictions, inadequate enforcement of workplace standards, polluting industries near residential areas, stuff like that. Check out the film “Silkwood.”
 
Emily L said:
Craig, it seems to me both sides tend to exploit the weak.

They will parade the weak in front of the cameras during the campaign. but when they get elected they'll do next to nothing to help them. Then, in the next campaign, they'll do the same thing.

At least, it seems that way to me.
Click to expand...
There's something like twenty five or thirty million people who might want to talk to you about their health insurance, namely ones who didn't use to have ANY prior to 2010 when the ACA became law.
On the short end, one could argue it's as few as thirteen million I suppose but that depends upon how one defines "affordable" and it also depends on how one calculates the end user experience in states which have STILL refused to adopt Federal Medicaid expansion monies under ACA. And still, more people even in THOSE states HAVE some KIND of health insurance when they didn't have any before.

And that's JUST the ACA.
 
ataraxia said:
Nah- from civil rights and Medicare to the ACA, the Dems have done some good.

What has the GOP done other than cut taxes to the rich and make it harder to vote for poor and elderly?
Click to expand...
Maybe we need another seventy years of theocratic fascism.
Of course seventy years from now anyone who remembered even a mildly functional democracy will be long dead.
 
Emily L said:
Craig, it seems to me both sides tend to exploit the weak.

They will parade the weak in front of the cameras during the campaign. but when they get elected they'll do next to nothing to help them. Then, in the next campaign, they'll do the same thing.

At least, it seems that way to me.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. I agree with your assessment of the situation so far. But then comes the big difference. While the Dems practice neglect, the GOP goes out of their way to hurt em. Shame on you. I actually agree on some of your positions but damn, your ugly. I want nothing to do with you.
 
Emily L said:
Lurch, those things you are citing are part of the reason I eventually left the GOP. I'm still a "traditional" conservative, but that's because I believe a true conservative would never be in favor of some of the things the current GOP is now pushing for.
Click to expand...

can I ask what sort of things you don't like that the GOP pushes?

I have some myself, but I find the progressive left's agenda more unappealing, personally.
 
Roadvirus said:
Actually "the strong should exploit the weak" is the opinion of BOTH parties.
Click to expand...
Which is what misinformed right-wingers think that keeps them trapped supporting the ONLY party that thinks that instead of the one that doesn't. Congrats on being a sucker for the propaganda.
 
Roadvirus said:
Actually "the strong should exploit the weak" is the opinion of BOTH parties.
Click to expand...
Probably because there's a far-right party and a mostly centre-right party... but obviously, the centre-right Democrat policies tend to exploit the weak considerably less, and the party includes some centrist voices such as Sanders, Warren etc.
 
Last edited:
Craig234 said:
Which is what misinformed right-wingers think that keeps them trapped supporting the ONLY party that thinks that instead of the one that doesn't. Congrats on being a sucker for the propaganda.
Click to expand...
As you recite propaganda, not the beat argument. And shows how much of a sucker you are without knowing it.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
There's something like twenty five or thirty million people who might want to talk to you about their health insurance, namely ones who didn't use to have ANY prior to 2010 when the ACA became law.
On the short end, one could argue it's as few as thirteen million I suppose but that depends upon how one defines "affordable" and it also depends on how one calculates the end user experience in states which have STILL refused to adopt Federal Medicaid expansion monies under ACA. And still, more people even in THOSE states HAVE some KIND of health insurance when they didn't have any before.

And that's JUST the ACA.
Click to expand...

Holy cow, Checker! That's a great example! I don't know how I could have forgotten about that! That affordable health care thing did make a big difference in the lives of those with a lesser income. Thank you VERY much for reminding me of that.
 
Arlette said:
Not exactly. I agree with your assessment of the situation so far. But then comes the big difference. While the Dems practice neglect, the GOP goes out of their way to hurt em. Shame on you. I actually agree on some of your positions but damn, your ugly. I want nothing to do with you.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Arlette, I don't think the GOP intentionally wants to hurt anyone--it's just that their policies sometimes seem to give the poor the short end of the stick. It's that old "trickle down theory," which is something that I've never bought into.
 
Craig234 said:
Which is what misinformed right-wingers think that keeps them trapped supporting the ONLY party that thinks that instead of the one that doesn't. Congrats on being a sucker for the propaganda.
Click to expand...

They don't want black and brown people getting free stuff.
 
Emily L said:
To be fair, Arlette, I don't think the GOP intentionally wants to hurt anyone--it's just that their policies sometimes seem to give the poor the short end of the stick. It's that old "trickle down theory," which is something that I've never bought into.
Click to expand...
Me neither. But those morons still think trickle down is gonna kick in any minute now. Get a grope already!
 
Arlette said:
Not exactly. I agree with your assessment of the situation so far. But then comes the big difference. While the Dems practice neglect, the GOP goes out of their way to hurt em. Shame on you. I actually agree on some of your positions but damn, your ugly. I want nothing to do with you.
Click to expand...
The G.O.P.'s oppression megaphone is adept at steering the cultists away from the stench that is right under their noses.

Now you see it,

Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department​

https://www.justice.gov › attachments › 2015/03/04

PDF
Mar 4, 2015 — yet Ferguson's municipal court routinely issues warrants for people to be arrested and incarcerated for failing to timely pay related fines ...

And now, you don't!

Five Years After Ferguson, Policing Reform Is Abandoned​

https://eji.org › news › five-years-after-ferguson-policin...
Aug 12, 2019 — Five Years After Ferguson, Policing Reform Is Abandoned. 08.12.19 ... then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions had eliminated the Collaborative Reform program.

Look! Woke Dems are CRTing and grooming your li'l ones and making them feel guilty for being white, straight, and christian!
Vote for me and call my new hotline!

The Demand for Money Behind Many Police Traffic Stops​

https://www.nytimes.com › 2021/10/31 › police-ticket-qu...
Nov 2, 2021 — Over 730 municipalities rely on fines and fees for at least 10 percent ... states — Ohio, Oklahoma and Virginia — where police traffic stops ...


Nearly 600 Towns Get 10% Of Their Budgets (Or More) From Court Fines​

A new report reveals hundreds of America’s worst speed traps. Most are in just four states: Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.
www.forbes.com
Nick Sibilla
I cover criminal justice, entrepreneurship, and offbeat lawsuits.
Aug 29, 2019,

".. According to a national database compiled by Governing magazine, at least 583 cities and towns have collected 10% or more of their general fund revenue from fines and forfeitures. Among those jurisdictions, 80 relied on fines to generate over half of their budget revenue. Most of those municipalities came from just four states: Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma...."

Midterms: Poorest states have Republican legislatures, ​

..Republicans are the party of the poor ...
"On Oct. 4, USA TODAY published a breathtaking economic profile of all 50 states, ..."

..see how politics may unexpectedly affect economics and wealth for years to come.

"Eighteen of the 19 poorest states have legislatures where both chambers are Republican controlled. New Mexico (46th richest, fifth poorest) is Democratic. But there isn’t another blue or purple state until you get to purple Maine (31st richest, 20th poorest) with its “split” legislature...."

States of Incarceration: The Global Context 2021​

Criminal justice policy in every region of the United States is out of step with the rest of the world.
www.prisonpolicy.org
Government jurisdictions with the highest per capita incarceration rates in the world,

In Massachusetts, 275 per 100,000, in New Jersey, 341, in New York, 376, in Connecticut, 394.

51994265375_c4ff2c204d_b.jpg


2015 map:
1649678754573.png
 
Hypothetical said:
can I ask what sort of things you don't like that the GOP pushes?

I have some myself, but I find the progressive left's agenda more unappealing, personally.
Click to expand...

Well, what I mean are things like "the wall" (it brings to mind images of that Berlin thing years ago), Or the policy of rewarding citizens who "rat out" people who help women get an abortion (although I don't like abortion). Or giving large corporations and rich people tax breaks (based on the "trickle down theory"). Or fighting against what I think are reasonable limits on guns (e.g., "ghost guns"). Or, while Trump was in office, allowing the national debt to skyrocket.

On the other hand, I don't like the left's "open border" goals. Or out-dated "affirmative action" requirements. Or unreasonable limits on free speech. Or allowing "birth males" to compete in female sports. Or putting too many limits on religion in schools. Or attempts to re-write history, usually by removing things.

I guess I have enough complaints to go around to everyone. :)
 
The secular wedge issue propaganda pitched to lower than average educated electorate and religious "messaging" influences voting decisions and the "combo" of resulting poverty, wealth concentration, reluctance of private investors to identify under educated, slow growth states
as golden opportunities and not only are up to 4X as many able bodied taken out of the workforce compared to in fully insured Massachusetts,

(Or... simply expand medicaid, eliminate tax on food, legislate a truly progressive income tax, stop the focus on and passage of legislation
in "response" to ginned up or very low impact problems, reduce the cronyism driven corruption (see Arkansas), observe the legislative
priorities of the top ten economically leading states and states with lowest incarceration per capita and stop the bullshit TX & FL state
govs. lead the nation in legislating in reaction to!)

Also, compare the shameful level of compensation "offered" by state governments inviting corruption as neccessity....
www.bls.gov

Correctional Officers and Jailers

www.bls.gov www.bls.gov
....
States with the highest concentration of jobs and location quotients in Correctional Officers and Jailers:

State​
Employment (1)​
Employment per thousand jobs​
Location quotient (9)​
Hourly mean wage​
Annual mean wage (2)​
6,020​
5.06​
1.81​
$ 17.68​
$ 36,770​
3,270​
4.98​
1.79​
$ 20.32​
$ 42,270​
14,160​
4.92​
1.76​
$ 21.67​
$ 45,070​
8,160​
4.55​
1.63​
$ 18.25​
$ 37,960​
3,280​
4.22​
1.52​
$ 18.83​
$ 39,170​

Top paying states for Correctional Officers and Jailers:

State​
Employment (1)​
Employment per thousand jobs​
Location quotient (9)​
Hourly mean wage​
Annual mean wage (2)​
37,640​
2.28​
0.82​
$ 39.03​
$ 81,170​
9,670​
2.51​
0.90​
$ 35.33​
$ 73,490​
5,560​
1.64​
0.59​
$ 34.74​
$ 72,260​
34,280​
3.95​
1.42​
$ 34.21​
$ 71,160​
4,700​
2.58​
0.92​
$ 33.07​
$ 68,790​
 
Last edited:
Hypothetical said:
can I ask what sort of things you don't like that the GOP pushes?

I have some myself, but I find the progressive left's agenda more unappealing, personally.
Click to expand...

Emily L said:
Well, what I mean are things like "the wall" (it brings to mind images of that Berlin thing years ago), Or the policy of rewarding citizens who "rat out" people who help women get an abortion (although I don't like abortion). Or giving large corporations and rich people tax breaks (based on the "trickle down theory"). Or fighting against what I think are reasonable limits on guns (e.g., "ghost guns"). Or, while Trump was in office, allowing the national debt to skyrocket.

On the other hand, I don't like the left's "open border" goals. Or out-dated "affirmative action" requirements. Or unreasonable limits on free speech. Or allowing "birth males" to compete in female sports. Or putting too many limits on religion in schools. Or attempts to re-write history, usually by removing things.

I guess I have enough complaints to go around to everyone. :)
Click to expand...
Compared to the problems I presented in my immediately two prior posts, even if both of your descriptions of
objections were actual concerns close to actual "kitchen table issues," ("Open Borders" are a RWE talking point, anti affirmative action is white backlash...) why would anyone ever vote for a G.O.P. candidate for any elected position?
 
Can federal prosecutors make Arkansas a more reasonable place for trans kids?

Former Ark. state Sen. Jon Woods drew an 18 year "bid, in the B.O.P."

Dentist who bribed Jeremy Hutchinson gets a year and a day ...​

https://arktimes.com › Arkansas Blog
Jan 24, 2022 — Jeremy Hutchinson (nephew of Governor Hutchinson) was sentenced in Fayetteville today to a year and a day in prison and a $157,500 fine.

Rusty Cranford could face up to 10 years in federal prison for bribing Sen. Jon Woods, Rep. ... Jeremy Hutchinson. ... Jeremy Hutchinson, the nephew of Gov.


Jim Hendren - Wikipedia​


en.wikipedia.org
"James Paul Hendren (born August 12, 1963)[1] is an American politician serving as a member of the Arkansas Senate from the 2nd district. From January 2019 to January 2021, he also served as Senate Majority Leader. Until February 2021, he was a Republican; but he has left his party in the wake of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. He resides in Sulphur Springs in Benton County in Northwest Arkansas....

Controversies​

In 2020, a Federal judge ordered Hendren Plastics and DARP Foundation to pay more than $1.1 million in back wages and damages to workers who were forced to work without pay at Hendren Plastics. District Judge Timothy Brooks wrote that “They were businesses that manipulated the labor market and skirted compliance with the labor laws for their own private ends,” The DARP Foundation was a work-based rehab in which many participants had their participation court ordered in lieu of incarceration. DARP supplied workers to Hendren's Hendren Plastics who used them as a “captive workforce.” Not only was the misuse of rehab workers abusive but it also displaced private sector employees at Hendren Plastics who had enjoyed a significantly higher wage than the temporary laborers. Injuries to the workers at Hendren Plastics were commonplace with seriously injured workers being kicked out of the program and sent to prison, this created an incentive to massively underreport workplace injuries.

Personal life​

His father, Kim Hendren, is a former member of the Arkansas Senate and in a second stint in office a member of the Arkansas House of Representatives from 2015 to 2017. Through his mother, the former Marylea Hutchinson, his cousins include fellow State Senator Jeremy Hutchinson and former State Representative Timothy Chad Hutchinson, sons of former Senator Tim Hutchinson, and Hutchinson's first wife, Donna. .."

"...Hutchinson's brother is current Arkansas governor Asa Hutchinson, "
 
post said:
. . . even if both of your descriptions of
objections were actual concerns close to actual "kitchen table issues," ("Open Borders" are a RWE talking point, anti affirmative action is white backlash...) . . .
Click to expand...

But, Post, those are actual concerns of mine. While Biden, himself, is against "open borders," I've heard other Democrats say we should remove all current restrictions on immigration. And, yes, I realize that's just hearsay since I can't produce proof of anybody saying that, but I have heard it. And I put "affirmative action" in quotes because many Democrats still think we should push hard to see that certain races are represented in all things, even if it means unofficial quotas.
 
Emily L said:
To be fair, Arlette, I don't think the GOP intentionally wants to hurt anyone--it's just that their policies sometimes seem to give the poor the short end of the stick. It's that old "trickle down theory," which is something that I've never bought into.
Click to expand...
Of COURSE they do. It's not the reason they want to, but they understand that for them to take everything, others lose it, and that's what they want. It's the core, the basis, of their power.
 
Emily L said:
On the other hand, I don't like the left's "open border" goals. Or out-dated "affirmative action" requirements. Or unreasonable limits on free speech. Or allowing "birth males" to compete in female sports. Or putting too many limits on religion in schools. Or attempts to re-write history, usually by removing things.
Click to expand...

Emily, there is so much wrong in your understanding of these things, and I think you mean well.

You've already discussed 'open borders' and how it is not in any real sense a Democratic policy, so let's skip it. There's nothing dated about "affirmative action". We have remaining inequities from historical racial discrimination, and "affirmative action" is for increasing equality where things are unequal for those reasons. That's a good thing. There are no 'unreasonable limits on free speech' I know of. I'll grant you that how to handle transgender people in athletic contests is a legitimate question, but on which IN NO WAY DESERVES TO BE ON A TOP ONE THOUSAND LIST OF PRIORITIES IN CHOOSING GOVERNMENT. Religion SHOULD be in private - in churches, in homes - not in public schools every child is required to be at having religion forced on them. It's called "freedom".

Your last one is 're-writing history by removing things'. That one is especially bad. A century after the civil war, as the civil rights movement grew to challenge segregation, racists put up statues of confederate leaders to express support for confederate values - racism and subjugating black people, to try to intimidate them - and removing them does nothing but renounce that racism, it DOES NOT re-write history.

No offense but you are putting up nonsense excuses to oppose Democrats and ignoring the real issues of the allocation of trillions of dollars, corruption, democracy and similar actually important things the parties differ on. It would be like picking a side in the Ukraine war based on the haircuts of Zelensky and Putin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom