This Guy got to go!!!!

[cpwill]

Neither, though there was no OTHER option.

The sitting president does not pull intel out of his/her ass.
They go by what they are told.
many times what they are told is a lie.

...no. Being incorrect is not the same as lying.

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[concernedpuma]

people like concernedpuma advocate this kind of abuse, church goers no doubt

I am a church goer, No doubt?
That pronouncement is as accurate most of what you write. I am a Christian, but don't attend Sunday services. Can you wrap your mind around that?
Regards,
CP

 

[Fledermaus]

That few years after WW2 Korea should have been no trouble.

We had huge troubles, and we did not win.

Also, Iraq barely bothered to fght.

That was a "Walk In".

Not a Win.

North Korea wasn't a problem. China was.

We had huge troubles in many a war. And we didn't lose.

Iraq barely bothered to fight. Except when they did. Actual veterans will tell you that.

As to the invasion of Iraq. Textbook win.

 

[Born Free]

Nope, because that is not how it happened, at all.

OK then prove me wrong. Otherwise you comment is useless and baseless.

 

[Fledermaus]

I dunno.... the Chinese kicked us almost off the Korean peninsula. I'd call that fight a draw at best.

As for Iraq......yeah, we're pretty darn good against some Third World backwater using old Russian equipment. We weren't so good at occupation, though.

Some people think Afghanistan has been a BIG success. I dunno..... lots of American dead and nothing to show....

We had quite a victory down there in Granada, and don't forget our conquest of Panama.

But Iran sort of showed us up. We kinda flubbed that big rescue mission...

Didn't do so good in Vietnam. That Li' Bit of a country kicked our ....well...you know what.

I can't wait for the next intervention; will it be Venezuela? The Ukraine? North Korea?

The North Koreans kicked us almost off the Korean peninsula. We pushed them back to the Chinese border. The Chinese pushed us back from there to the current division line. A win against N. Korea and we stopped the Chinese. Call it what ever you want.

And Iraq... Third World backwater using old Russian equipment? Roughly 1,000,000 men all told is a fairly large army these days. And the 12 Divisions of the Republican Guard was fairly well armed and had high morale. And we spanked them not once, but twice.

Grenada, Panama etc were what they were. The Iran rescue mission was overly optimistic and plagued with bad luck. And?

As far as Vietnam we spanked the Viet Cong and held the NVA until peace talks could ensue. We were there to protect S. Vietnam and the last time I checked it was still there after we left. Am I wrong?

 

[Born Free]

Every intel agency in the world made that mistake because Saddam was faking a WMD program to dissuade Iran.

Are you making an excuse for our intelligence getting it wrong that Iraq had WMD's? Thank you for admitting that our intelligence has got it dead wong in the past and will do it again.

 

[theliq]

Our military has been mostly failing ever since WW2.....I dont assume either competence or honesty..... and really who after The Pentagon Papers would ever assume honesty?

AND THE DRAFT doger HAS MADE IT WORSE

 

[theliq]

stunning lack of understanding in this post.

I am not even gonna bother.

Peace out.

hold on,don't be so blithe with your comment,what puma is trying to elude to is the fact that trump cannot read,and you should bother,that your cic is an idiot

 

[Hawkeye10]

AND THE DRAFT doger HAS MADE IT WORSE

We dont know yet if the Trump Chemo is going to work, but it was worth a shot.

NO REGRETS

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Are you making an excuse for our intelligence getting it wrong that Iraq had WMD's? Thank you for admitting that our intelligence has got it dead wong in the past and will do it again.

How Trump do with Iraqi WMD?

Did he do any better?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

OK then prove me wrong. Otherwise you comment is useless and baseless.

As quoted:

Despite warnings from the German Federal Intelligence Service and the British Secret Intelligence Service questioning the authenticity of the claims, the US Government and British government utilized them to build a rationale for military action in the lead up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, including in the 2003 State of the Union address, where President Bush said "we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs", and Colin Powell's presentation to the UN Security Council, which contained a computer generated image of a mobile biological weapons laboratory.

The Bush administration ignored evidence from the UN weapons inspectors that Curveball's claims were false. Curveball had identified a particular Iraqi facility as a docking station for mobile labs.

Why did Bush IGNORE evidence from UN inspectors? Why did Bush ignore warnings from German and British intelligence?
Same reason he saw fit to lay blame on the CIA, he and Cheney cherry picked what they wanted, because what they wanted was an expanded and wider war.

If you want to make an argument that our intelligence "got it wrong" but INSIST that the administration was not the least bit complicit in distorting what they wanted and ignoring what they did not want, your argument is that of a partisan hack...or to use your terms, "useless and baseless".
There was no singular "it" to get wrong. The intel produced was, to use another current term: VOLUMINOUS AND COMPLEX.

If you're willing to admit that at least on some level, the administration wanted to overlook the complexity in an effort to arrive at an overly simplistic justification, and that such justification might have existed in all that intel somewhere, I'm willing to go along with that with reservations.

I'm also willing to go along with the fact that some of this was Hussein's own fault as well, because there is ample evidence that he concocted the appearance of HAVING weapons of mass destruction at a time when he no longer did.
On that level, he earned part of his own fate because had he not put up his paper tiger act, perhaps more credibility might have been given to those who doubted the story made up by "Curveball".

It is mighty convenient to cheer for failure in our intel services when it suits the rest of a larger and more expedient effort to cozy up to the intel services of a hostile foreign adversary who is currently enjoying some rather special protections from a current POTUS, so I think I understand what drives your larger narrative.

Why are you still here? Be all you can be.

 

[Born Free]

How Trump do with Iraqi WMD?

Did he do any better?

Where have you been, when was Trump involved with Iraq WMD's

Your wasting my time

 

[Fledermaus]

1. The U.S. Intelligence Community has been wrong before. Pearl Harbor, the Chinese pushing across the Yalu River, the Indian nuclear tests, and Iraqi WMD programs all come to mind.

2. That being said, the notion that Trump knows more than the IC does on Iran is.... extremely unlikely.

3. That being said, being disrespectful to the U.S. government is fine. It's hardly sacrosanct; quite the opposite. I've worked in the USG, and you'll find few people more jaded about it's ability to function efficiently or well than those inside it.

We spent millions of dollars creating a ship class (large cruiser Alaska) to counter chimerical Japanese cruisers.

 

[Fledermaus]

How Trump do with Iraqi WMD?

Did he do any better?

When?

 

[Rexedgar]

Strategic Surprise is considered an intelligence failure. In the case of Pearl Harbor, as I understand it, the failure to provide warning was a result of unfortunate information management; warning laid, as-yet-untranslated, in our holdings.

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Perhaps this topic is better suited for another forum. IMO, there was more than an intell failure responsible.

 

[concernedpuma]

hold on,don't be so blithe with your comment,what puma is trying to elude to is the fact that trump cannot read,and you should bother,that your cic is an idiot

Geezzzz, TL, I sure hope that I won't ever need you in a court case! I'm too pretty to go to jail!
I am stating the facts. If there is some intel being withheld from the President, that is one thing, and a serious problem. If on the other hand he reads all, and makes his decision on totality, that is what Presidents do. I'm sure you've noticed that there is no election for Intel Chief's.
Regards
CP
PS nonreal and I have parted company on this issue.

 

[joko104]

Hmmm

US and military Intel declared that Spain had sunk our USS Maine battleship. So to the battle cry of "Remember the Maine!" we went to war with Spain to seize their territory in the Caribbean for ourselves. Many decades later divers proved this claim was 100% false. We went to war in the Spanish-American war on 100% false Intel claims.

Spanish-American War: Within the rules of war, ships from the USA to the UK in WW1 before we entered the war carrying weapons and munitions were legitimate military targets for German submarines. For this, we were transporting key munitions to the UK in passenger ships, using the passengers as human shields. This was so known to Germany they took out an advertisement in the New York Times stating that the Lusitannia was a weapons transport and would be sunk - so do not get on that ship. A German submarine did sink the ship.

World War 1: US Intel assured that the claims of Germany were false and used that sinking as reason to get into WW1. Decades later divers proved that the US Intel community had 100% lied for the purpose of war.

Korean War: MacArthur and US Intel assured President Truman that if our troops invaded N. Korea there was no chance China would enter the war - assuring China was only bluffing. 100% to the opposite, Chinese troops poured into N. Korea putting our forces in terrible jeopardy and with very high casualties. These same military and Intel experts adamantly insisted we must drop atom bombs on China. Fortunately, Truman said no and fired MacArthur.

Vietnam: The US Intel community declared a N. Korean patrol boat had attacked a US Navy destroyer. This was the basis for the Gulf Of Tonkin resolution as our entry into the Vietnam War. It has been admitted this was a lie and a known lie at the time. Across the entire course of the war the military and Intel community lied to the President, Congress and all of us.

Iraq War II: "Oops, sorry, no weapons of mass destruction."

Syria: Intel and the military are absolute that we must have ground troops in Syria. Why? To support a civil war against the government of Syria to eliminate Russian military bases that have been in Syria for over half a century on permission of the Syrian government. War with Russia over Syria?

No, I am 100% with President Trump on NO WAR WITH RUSSIA OVER SYRIA!

Yeah, Asad is an evil bastard. From what I read, the leadership of nearly every country in that entire region are all evil bastards too. There are no good guys.

 

[concernedpuma]

Hmmm

US and military Intel declared that Spain had sunk our USS Maine battleship. So to the battle cry of "Remember the Maine!" we went to war with Spain to seize their territory in the Caribbean for ourselves. Many decades later divers proved this claim was 100% false. We went to war in the Spanish-American war on 100% false Intel claims.

Spanish-American War: Within the rules of war, ships from the USA to the UK in WW1 before we entered the war carrying weapons and munitions were legitimate military targets for German submarines. For this, we were transporting key munitions to the UK in passenger ships, using the passengers as human shields. This was so known to Germany they took out an advertisement in the New York Times stating that the Lusitannia was a weapons transport and would be sunk - so do not get on that ship. A German submarine did sink the ship.

World War 1: US Intel assured that the claims of Germany were false and used that sinking as reason to get into WW1. Decades later divers proved that the US Intel community had 100% lied for the purpose of war.

Korean War: MacArthur and US Intel assured President Truman that if our troops invaded N. Korea there was no chance China would enter the war - assuring China was only bluffing. 100% to the opposite, Chinese troops poured into N. Korea putting our forces in terrible jeopardy and with very high casualties. These same military and Intel experts adamantly insisted we must drop atom bombs on China. Fortunately, Truman said no and fired MacArthur.

Vietnam: The US Intel community declared a N. Korean patrol boat had attacked a US Navy destroyer. This was the basis for the Gulf Of Tonkin resolution as our entry into the Vietnam War. It has been admitted this was a lie and a known lie at the time. Across the entire course of the war the military and Intel community lied to the President, Congress and all of us.

Iraq War II: "Oops, sorry, no weapons of mass destruction."

Syria: Intel and the military are absolute that we must have ground troops in Syria. Why? To support a civil war against the government of Syria to eliminate Russian military bases that have been in Syria for over half a century on permission of the Syrian government. War with Russia over Syria?

No, I am 100% with President Trump on NO WAR WITH RUSSIA OVER SYRIA!

Yeah, Asad is an evil bastard. From what I read, the leadership of nearly every country in that entire region are all evil bastards too. There are no good guys.

I believe that with Viet Nam piece, you meant North Vietnamese boat attacked an American Destroyer. - just a small aside in what is well presented factual evidence that Intelligence is intended for the President to consider, not a dictum!
I believe it is clear that the President is not a red meat chaser, but a long term solutions seeker!
Regards,
CP

 

[ecofarm]

Are you making an excuse for our intelligence getting it wrong that Iraq had WMD's? Thank you for admitting that our intelligence has got it dead wong in the past and will do it again.

You can't act like it was a US thing. It wasn't. All intelligence gets stuff wrong and, in that case, everyone got it wrong for good reason.

 

[joko104]

I believe that with Viet Nam piece, you meant North Vietnamese boat attacked an American Destroyer. - just a small aside in what is well presented factual evidence that Intelligence is intended for the President to consider, not a dictum!
I believe it is clear that the President is not a red meat chaser, but a long term solutions seeker!
Regards,
CP

Yes, my typo. N Vietnamese patrol boat, not NK.

 

[concernedpuma]

Yes, my typo. N Vietnamese patrol boat, not NK.

I was sure. Good job with your post!
Regards,
CP

 

[cpwill]

Geezzzz, TL, I sure hope that I won't ever need you in a court case! I'm too pretty to go to jail!
I am stating the facts. If there is some intel being withheld from the President, that is one thing, and a serious problem. If on the other hand he reads all, and makes his decision on totality, that is what Presidents do. I'm sure you've noticed that there is no election for Intel Chief's.
Regards
CP
PS nonreal and I have parted company on this issue.

. You can give a POTUS a PDB, but you can't make him read it.

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[concernedpuma]

. You can give a POTUS a PDB, but you can't make him read it.

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CPWILL - I am somewhat surprised by your reply. Of course he reads them. What he may not do is react the way the talking heads on cable TV sometimes hint he ought. I didn't vote for, nor do I expect, those paid commentators to know what is best for the country. I expect the CIC to what is best. So far, I am very pleased with his decisions. What's wrong with, to mention a few: sitting down with the NK Communist party chief, expecting pay for protection by the NATO members, fighting a long overdue trade fight with China against their aggressive marketing tactics, and still having a friend in Peiping, cutting taxes, having the lowest unemployment figures for the least earning of our society? Go ahead, I'll wait.
Regards,
CP

 

[noonereal]

I am a Christian, but don't attend Sunday services. Can you wrap your mind around that?
Regards,
CP

Oh, a hypocrite, got it.

BTW, the term "Church goer" pertains to radical wing nuts views rather than the actural act of sitting in a church.

You know, folks that think cops should be allowed to steal from blacks for personal benefit.

Non religious folks as myself consider this immoral.

 

[marke]

Ok folks simple question!!! do you believe the United States intelligence agency reports on the state of our enemies, or do you believe Trump version.

How do you feel about Trump questioning and saying the U.S. intelligence need to go back to school because Trump knows better. just want to know how can trump know better than people that have been doing this for decades with agents in the field.. Trump is very disrespectful to the United States government . period. and we all know most of the people he is talking down and belittling about are republican veterans.....Wow!!!

Who to believe? Trump, or Clapper, Comey, Brennan, Steele, Strzok, Podesta, McCabe, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, Samantha Power or hundreds of other biased seditionist Trump haters in the government, mqny involved with fabricating false spy documents and repirts filled with misinformation and outright lies?

I will stick with Trump. He has not yet been proven to have monkied with national intelligence reports out of badly corrupted wicked biased partisan political gamesmanship.