Things I want to take from religion, as a none believer.

[Skeptic Bob]

I’m too introverted for such things, but some atheists who want the trappings of church without having God shoved down their throats have had some luck with Unitarian Universalist churches.

 

[Cephus]

Just watched this TED talk. He puts into words my thoughts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oe6HUgrRlQ&app=desktop

I once attempted to start an atheist church thingy. All that social meeting up on a Sunday and stuff.

The reason it failed was that there are 3 sorts of atheist;

1, atheist, like when you are born because you have no notion of this God idea so you cannot possibly believe.

2, Atheist, when you have had a think about it and you don't believe in fairies.

3, ATHEIST, when you will go onto internet forums to explian why this God thing is massively bad.

I, and all the rest who turned up, are of the third kind. The central defining charcteristic of our personalities we all had in common was that we are all extremely, naturally, born that way, can't change it even if we wanted to, massively individualistic.

The resulting herd of cats fell appart.

Any ideas how we get over that?

You can't. I understand some people want the social communities that are often found in religion, but what most people seem to miss is that you cannot base a community around something that you don't have in common, only about something that you do. Therefore, having atheism involved at all, it's doomed to fail. If you have a bunch of people who enjoy something in common, then they can form a community. If you have a bunch of people with nothing in common other than they don't believe something, there is no reason for them to cohere. Atheist churches are silly. People just need to go make friends.

 

[ataraxia]

You can’t because you’re starting from a fundamentally flawed concept. The idea of an atheist church is as ridiculous as the idea of a theist church – not related to any specific religion or specific set of beliefs, simply theistic. It’d be a bit like trying to start a sports team without deciding which sport it would play.

A specifically atheistic religion is perfectly possible – several already exist – but you’d need to develop that above and beyond the simple singular “statement of not believing in any gods”. You’ve not said which aspects of religion (or that you think are part of religion) you want to take but I suspect none of them require anything like religion at all (not even an atheistic form). Aspects people commonly refer to are the social grouping and interaction, the moral principles and guidance or the art and music, all of which are perfectly achievable – and indeed are achieved by many people – outside of any kind of religion at all.

Yeah, i’m not sure you could call it a church- maybe some kind of a social club, or at best, a philosophy club. But then on the other hand, that’s pretty much what a church is anyway.

 

[Omega Man]

Yeah, i’m not sure you could call it a church- maybe some kind of a social club, or at best, a philosophy club. But then on the other hand, that’s pretty much what a church is anyway.

Yep, pretty much the same; a place you can congregate and cite affirmations.


OM

 

[ataraxia]

Yep, pretty much the same; a place you can congregate and cite affirmations.


OM

... and maybe hear an inspirational or motivational talk or two? Seek a sense of community? To stand back and look at the world in awe and wonder once in a while? Or hear some uplifting music or be transported by beautiful art? In a bygone era, they might have called those kinds of things “spiritually uplifting”. I think even atheists look for that kind of thing. We all need it. It’s a very human thing, God or no God. If there are not going to be any churches in the traditional sense anymore, I am sure people will find other ways to meet those needs.

 

[Omega Man]

... and maybe hear an inspirational or motivational talk or two? Seek a sense of community? To stand back and look at the world in awe and wonder once in a while? Or hear some uplifting music or be transported by beautiful art? In a bygone era, they might have called those kinds of things “spiritually uplifting”. I think even atheists look for that kind of thing. We all need it. It’s a very human thing, God or no God. If there are not going to be any churches in the traditional sense anymore, I am sure people will find other ways to meet those needs.

Like I said... citing affirmations.


OM

 

[Conaeolos]

Any ideas how we get over that?

What’s your general thoughts on his YouTube channel? “School of life”

I hate how when people talk about this idea they automatically seem to make it into some community center. I think the idea is much more about exploring curiosities in ‘meaningfulness’ and the ‘subjective’ rather than some ploy to get more like minded fellowship. I think the jist is in how if one were to approached the humanities at university with non-academic curiosity about ways to improve their life, they would be on a one way ticket to the insane asylum.

I have my spiritual minded community, but frankly I love it if there was this secular alternative to a traditional ‘church’ or even spiritual discussions. With regular lectures with twists for the everyday meaning, essential philosophy and mix of science. Travel, art etc. but not as the focal point but as a celebration of the mystery of life and the process of exploring meaning. This kind of thing certainly exist in university(outside of class), but it certainly not design around adults or non-students.

In terms of suggestions. When one needs to heard a group of cats, you just go strait to the shiny objects, in other words, instead of trying to develop the structure first simply book and promote a bunch of interesting speakers/top discussions centered on purposefulness and enjoying the beauty of life. The rest will likely come together as the regulars start to appear.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Ah, but...does a bald head need a comb? Wouldn't creating a church for non believers be like buying a comb for a bald head?

(playing word games, don't care to actually label you, you do you, bud)

You do far more than theology at your church.

Take the God stuff away and leave the rest (although can do without the child abuse).

 

[Tim the plumber]

... and maybe hear an inspirational or motivational talk or two? Seek a sense of community? To stand back and look at the world in awe and wonder once in a while? Or hear some uplifting music or be transported by beautiful art? In a bygone era, they might have called those kinds of things “spiritually uplifting”. I think even atheists look for that kind of thing. We all need it. It’s a very human thing, God or no God. If there are not going to be any churches in the traditional sense anymore, I am sure people will find other ways to meet those needs.

Yep that is the idea.

 

[calamity]

As an atheist I do appreciate Christ's messege of forgiveness and tolerance. You dont have to be a Christian to appreciate the mans messege.

Yep. The Jesus man is alright by me. It’s Christianism that is the problem.

 

[Tim the plumber]

What’s your general thoughts on his YouTube channel? “School of life”

I hate how when people talk about this idea they automatically seem to make it into some community center. I think the idea is much more about exploring curiosities in ‘meaningfulness’ and the ‘subjective’ rather than some ploy to get more like minded fellowship. I think the jist is in how if one were to approached the humanities at university with non-academic curiosity about ways to improve their life, they would be on a one way ticket to the insane asylum.

I have my spiritual minded community, but frankly I love it if there was this secular alternative to a traditional ‘church’ or even spiritual discussions. With regular lectures with twists for the everyday meaning, essential philosophy and mix of science. Travel, art etc. but not as the focal point but as a celebration of the mystery of life and the process of exploring meaning. This kind of thing certainly exist in university(outside of class), but it certainly not design around adults or non-students.

In terms of suggestions. When one needs to heard a group of cats, you just go strait to the shiny objects, in other words, instead of trying to develop the structure first simply book and promote a bunch of interesting speakers/top discussions centered on purposefulness and enjoying the beauty of life. The rest will likely come together as the regulars start to appear.

Good thinking.

 

[Dragonfly]

in other words, instead of trying to develop the structure first simply book and promote a bunch of interesting speakers/top discussions centered on purposefulness and enjoying the beauty of life. The rest will likely come together as the regulars start to appear.

Ummm....Ted Talks.

 

[nota bene]

This is an easy one, join the Episcopal Church, they don't believe in God, either and they have nice buildings. The pot lucks are pretty good if you stay away from the stuff containing mayo.

:shock: My Episcopalian sister would be surprised to read this...including about the pot lucks.

 

[OlNate]

You do far more than theology at your church.

Take the God stuff away and leave the rest (although can do without the child abuse).

Oh, don't be so hasty, the child abuse is the best part. Sorry, dumbassed comment deserves a dumbassed response.

What you're describing sounds more like a service club (like Lions Club or the Rotary Club or Kinsmen) than a Sunday morning social. Perhaps that's a better fit. Church isn't just about showing up to hear a lecture and have some baked goods afterwards on a Sunday morning. It's also having food drives, raising money for charity, going out to the homes of folks who need help and delivering meals, going to senior citizen homes and cheering up the old folks, running soup kitchens, having garbage pick up walks along the side of the highway. These are all things we did when I went to church. It's more than just sitting there and being judgey….hehe... Church, minus the "God stuff", is still a lot of work. If you're not up for that, call it something else, and ask someone else.

 

[it's just me]

:shock: My Episcopalian sister would be surprised to read this...including about the pot lucks.

I say this with tongue stuffed firmly into cheek. However, I went to two pot lucks in a row where I ended up with the trots - we figured it was the potato salad. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Conaeolos]

Ummm....Ted Talks.

Certainly what I view as the right track. I have gone to a few these events like this in my day, TEDx, Ideacity, etc etc there are certainly talks that meet the bill, but most remain around academic ideas of learning facts or telling a personal story instead of combining the elements to explore a personal lesson applicable to ones life similar to a "sermon". You need that balance to spark discussion and connection, which was the idea discussed in the video and I guess what he's going after with School of Life. Go too far you end up with self-help not far enough at its an academic lecture, at either end you don't produce that subjective feeling of being 'personal' and then it a mental exercise instead of the spiritual exercise(noting in this context, spirit is a psychological thing not a physical one).

 

[Dragonfly]

Certainly what I view as the right track. I have gone to a few these events like this in my day, TEDx, Ideacity, etc etc there are certainly talks that meet the bill, but most remain around academic ideas of learning facts or telling a personal story instead of combining the elements to explore a personal lesson applicable to ones life similar to a "sermon". You need that balance to spark discussion and connection, which was the idea discussed in the video and I guess what he's going after with School of Life. Go too far you end up with self-help not far enough at its an academic lecture, at either end you don't produce that subjective feeling of being 'personal' and then it a mental exercise instead of the spiritual exercise(noting in this context, spirit is a psychological thing not a physical one).

I think Nate hit it right with this:

What you're describing sounds more like a service club (like Lions Club or the Rotary Club or Kinsmen) than a Sunday morning social. Perhaps that's a better fit.

Tim The Plumber just needs to start a "club" where he's the facilitator of talks, and discussion forums for topics he's in control of picking.

Or, he could just come here. :mrgreen:

 

[Omega Man]

You do far more than theology at your church.

Take the God stuff away and leave the rest (although can do without the child abuse).

Bad coffee, stale pastries, and handing out tracts?


OM

 

[Tim the plumber]

Oh, don't be so hasty, the child abuse is the best part. Sorry, dumbassed comment deserves a dumbassed response.

What you're describing sounds more like a service club (like Lions Club or the Rotary Club or Kinsmen) than a Sunday morning social. Perhaps that's a better fit. Church isn't just about showing up to hear a lecture and have some baked goods afterwards on a Sunday morning. It's also having food drives, raising money for charity, going out to the homes of folks who need help and delivering meals, going to senior citizen homes and cheering up the old folks, running soup kitchens, having garbage pick up walks along the side of the highway. These are all things we did when I went to church. It's more than just sitting there and being judgey….hehe... Church, minus the "God stuff", is still a lot of work. If you're not up for that, call it something else, and ask someone else.

All that is exactly the idea.

 

[OlNate]

All that is exactly the idea.

Cool...then I'd say join up with a secular service club. They have well established ways of doing everything you want to do, no need to reinvent the wheel. Not sure how old you are, but if you're in the younger age bracket (pre-white-hair...hehe) the service clubs could sure use you. As religious demographics get older and get smaller, the service clubs will need all the help they can get to pick up the slack. And, they're a great way to connect with your community and people you might not have met otherwise. I belong to both a church (though loosely) and a local service club. Service clubs are a great use of your time. Good luck.