Thermobaric Bombing Kiev?

[maxparrish]

 

[Hamish Howl]

Savages.

 

[Acadia]

Horrifying, yet not enough evidence for Biden to consider Putin committing war crimes.
God help Ukraine.

 

[phoenix2020]

Horrifying, yet not enough evidence for Biden to consider Putin committing war crimes.
God help Ukraine.

Yup. I bet he could do more. In fact I called him just yesterday, and I said "Joe, listen, there's this person on the Internet named @Acadia who is just full of amazing, specific, actionable ideas for what you should do to stop Putin's war crimes, you should listen to this brilliant mind!" He said that was a great idea, and suggested that if you post your amazing, specific, actionable ideas, his handlers and/or puppet masters will totally make him follow through on them.

Congrats in advance on stopping the war crimes!

 

[maxparrish]

As of yet I have been unable to find out if the bombs were thermobaric. We do know this: The Russians announced they were targeting "Ukrainian intelligence centers in Kiev:", soon thereafter 4 huge explosions were heard in the city in the evening. Ukrainian officials did not disclose where they were targeted."

A ammo depot would have had 4 explosions in a steady sequence, my bet it that they were thermobaric and aimed to killing everyone in the intelligence centers.

 

[Felis Leo]

Horrifying, yet not enough evidence for Biden to consider Putin committing war crimes.
God help Ukraine.

The way the International Criminal Court seems to act, I am convinced that even if arrested and extradited, if Putin said in open court "Yes, I used thermobaric bombs to target civilian instead of military targets! In fact, I specifically ordered that civilian areas be targeted exclusively. I did it because I am evil! EVIIIILLLLLLL! BWAHAHAHA!" it would still take a decade to convict him.

 

[maxparrish]

Putin makes Milosevic look like Mother Theresa.

 

[Rogue Valley]

As of yet I have been unable to find out if the bombs were thermobaric.

There were reports by Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine of Russian TOS-1 Buratino (Pinocchio) and the TOS-1A Solntsepyok (Sunburn) Multiple Launch Rocket Systems into Ukraine. Mounted on a T-72 tank chassis, they can fire 24-30 thermobaric rockets in about a minute. The thermobaric munitions are 2-stage fuel-air explosives. In the 1st stage, a fine fuel aerosol is mixed with small metal particles and saturates and area. A 2nd stage ignites this mixture. The aerosol can penetrate everywhere - in structures,, basements, bunkers, trenches etc. There is no hiding from it. The pressure wave collapses lungs and the burning fuel aerosol incinerates everything.

Russian thermobaric "vacuum bombs" launcher seen by CNN team in Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday. A battle is underway for control of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. The US has warned Russia is seeking to encircle the city, and a Ukrainian official said it has been hit by missiles. Follow here for live news...

www.cnn.com

 

[MaryP]

There were reports by Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine of Russian TOS-1 Buratino (Pinocchio) and the TOS-1A Solntsepyok (Sunburn) Multiple Launch Rocket Systems into Ukraine. Mounted on a T-72 tank chassis, they can fire 24-30 thermobaric rockets in about a minute. The thermobaric munitions are 2-stage fuel-air explosives. In the 1st stage, a fine fuel aerosol is mixed with small metal particles and saturates and area. A 2nd stage ignites this mixture. The aerosol can penetrate everywhere - in structures,, basements, bunkers, trenches etc. There is no hiding from it. The pressure wave collapses lungs and the burning fuel aerosol incinerates everything.

Russian thermobaric "vacuum bombs" launcher seen by CNN team in Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday. A battle is underway for control of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. The US has warned Russia is seeking to encircle the city, and a Ukrainian official said it has been hit by missiles. Follow here for live news...

www.cnn.com

Why is it so hard to figure out if an area was hit by a thermobaric bomb? This happened 12 hours ago.

Unless the Russians have so overwhelmed the city that no one can get in for a peek.

Does anyone know why the great mystery?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Why is it so hard to figure out if an area was hit by a thermobaric bomb? This happened 12 hours ago.

Unless the Russians have so overwhelmed the city that no one can get in for a peek.

Does anyone know why the great mystery?

There are no UN/OSCE monitors in Ukraine at this time. Far too dangerous.

Journalists are the only independent sources atm, and they are not very good at BDA.

 

[MaryP]

There are no UN/OSCE monitors in Ukraine at this time. Far too dangerous.

Journalists are the only independent sources atm, and they are not very good at BDA.

Huh. I would have thought the Ukranian military would have people that know. But if these weapons are rarely used, maybe no one there has experience with them. We should at least be hearing some damage reports, shouldn't we?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Huh. I would have thought the Ukranian military would have people that know.

They certainly do. But the Ukrainian military is a participant and not an impartial observer.

I myself prefer independent corroboration. CNN did say its reporters saw Russian thermobaric rocket launchers near Mariupol.

 

[maxparrish]

Why is it so hard to figure out if an area was hit by a thermobaric bomb? This happened 12 hours ago.

Unless the Russians have so overwhelmed the city that no one can get in for a peek.

Does anyone know why the great mystery?

I'm not sure why the area does not seem accessible. However, its getting increasingly likely that thermobaric are being used.

Jim Garraghty, NR Morning Jolt:

"As of this writing, it is not 100 percent definitive that Russian military forces have used thermobaric weapons in Ukraine, but those weapons are indisputably deployed on Ukrainian soil, and reporters in Kyiv are describing explosions powerful and bright enough to light up the night sky, like lightning; human-rights groups keep gathering evidence of Russia using cluster bombs and hitting civilian targets such as schools and kindergartens; meanwhile, Russians bid farewell to the stock market, and a Russian finance professor foresees widespread economic calamity overtaking his native country."

"In addition to deploying weapons in urban areas that should never be used against civilians, there is ample evidence that the Russians are indiscriminately bombing cities and towns. On Sunday, Amnesty International confirmed “that a 220mm Uragan rocket dropped cluster munitions on the Sonechko nursery and kindergarten in the town of Okhtyrka in Sumy Oblast, where local people were seeking safety from the fighting.”

 

[maxparrish]

Horrifying, yet not enough evidence for Biden to consider Putin committing war crimes.
God help Ukraine.

There is more than enough evidence for anyone to consider Putin's actions a war crime, the only question being is if it is prosecutable under the vagaries of international courts.

Most of us have heard of Nuremberg and many of us know of Crimes against Peace:

In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI, specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as:[13][14]

1. Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
2. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

See: Nuremberg Trials: "The legal basis for the jurisdiction of the court was that defined by the Instrument of Surrender of Germany, political authority for Germany had been transferred to the Allied Control Council, which having sovereign power over Germany could choose to punish violations of international law and the laws of war. Because the court was limited to violations of the laws of war, it did not have jurisdiction over crimes that took place before the outbreak of war on September 1, 1939."

For committing this crime, the Nuremberg Tribunal sentenced a number of persons responsible for starting World War II. One consequence of this is that nations who are starting an armed conflict must now argue that they are either exercising the right of self-defense, the right of collective defense, or – it seems – the enforcement of the criminal law of jus cogens. It has made formal declaration of war uncommon after 1945.

Putin has earned his place on the gallows.

War of aggression - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rogue Valley]

According to their constitution, Russians cannot be extradicted to face trial elsewhere.