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There's no such thing as "Palestine"

Volker said:
It was essentially about this statement.
I doubt, a collection of city states was meant here. The city states were from different peoples, but maybe there was a collection of Israelite city-states which can be considered a state.
The sentence speaks about the establishment of the kingdom of Israel. There was a collection of city states also before Germany was established, so what?

Indeed, at that time there were the 7 small nations who lived in Israel and were idol worshippers and God commanded to destroy them. People who aren't Jewish could also live in Israel if they follow the 7 laws of Noach. They are called: Ger Zedek. God decided to give that land to the children of Israel and he commanded to establish an Israeli kingdom there.
 
The face of Jacob said:
The sentence speaks about the establishment of the kingdom of Israel.
Yes, I was thinking so, that's why I said there is no historical prove it existed at this time.

The face of Jacob said:
There was a collection of city states also before Germany was established, so what?
There was no collection I am aware of.

The face of Jacob said:
Indeed, at that time there were the 7 small nations who lived in Israel and were idol worshippers and God commanded to destroy them. People who aren't Jewish could also live in Israel if they follow the 7 laws of Noach. They are called: Ger Zedek.
Isn't a Ger Zedek someone who converted to Judaism?

The face of Jacob said:
God decided to give that land to the children of Israel and he commanded to establish an Israeli kingdom there.
Israel is not a kingdom.
 
Volker said:
that's why I said there is no historical prove it existed at this time.
So you are saying that the Israeli kingdom wasn't exist?
Volker said:
Israel is not a kingdom.
It was and it's prepering herself to be such in the near future.
Volker said:
There was no collection I am aware of.
The nowadays state of Germany with it's current German nation wasn't existed couple of thousands years ago in the same way of today. There were also many principalities then in Germany.
Volker said:
Isn't a Ger Zedek someone who converted to Judaism?
You are correct. A Ger Toshav (resident) is the one I mean to say, which is: A non Jew who lives in Israel.
 
The face of Jacob said:
So you are saying that the Israeli kingdom wasn't exist?
I don't know of any prove it existed at the time before 1050 BCE.

The face of Jacob said:
It was and it's prepering herself to be such in the near future.
I know what you mean, I guess.

The face of Jacob said:
The nowadays state of Germany with it's current German nation wasn't existed couple of thousands years ago in the same way of today. There were also many principalities then in Germany.
Yes, there were more than 300 sometimes :mrgreen:

The face of Jacob said:
You are correct. A Ger Toshav (resident) is the one I mean to say, which is: A non Jew who lives in Israel.
Ok, I see, Ger Toshav is the term.
 
Volker said:
I don't think think there is prove for an independent Israelite state to have existed before 900 B.C., the way I understand it, it was populated by different peoples around 1200 B.C. and 1300 B.C. and consisted of city states which were more or less under Egyptian dominion.

I didn't claim that Merenptahs stele proves that Israel existed as a state. I've said that it is the first historical notion about it, that is known to me. Most probably it was some tribe as it was mentioned there in the end of the list of the tribes.
But my question is to Face of Jacob who said that Israel existed as a state since 1312 BC: what historical evidence is backing this very date?
 
arussian said:
I didn't claim that Merenptahs stele proves that Israel existed as a state. I've said that it is the first historical notion about it, that is known to me. Most probably it was some tribe as it was mentioned there in the end of the list of the tribes.
But my question is to Face of Jacob who said that Israel existed as a state since 1312 BC: what historical evidence is backing this very date?

The bible provides excellent proof of the existence of the tribes of Israel.
 
Vader said:
The bible provides excellent proof of the existence of the tribes of Israel.
Right, as well as universally relevant social custom, like sacrificing turtle doves at the temple after having sex. And marrying your brothers wife if he dies childless, if you refuse, they take away a shoe… it’s so logically I can’t handle it!
 
Right, as well as universally relevant social custom, like sacrificing turtle doves at the temple after having sex. And marrying your brothers wife if he dies childless, if you refuse, they take away a shoe… it’s so logically I can’t handle it!

What the hell are you talking about?

:confused:
 
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.


Arabs lived in Palestine before the Jews immigrated there. Not even Ben Gurion denies this fact.
 
Moot said:
Arabs lived in Palestine before the Jews immigrated there. Not even Ben Gurion denies this fact.
I don't think anyone actually denies that contemporary fact, but it is also true that Jews lived in Israel before contemporary Arabs emmigrated there.
 
I don't think anyone actually denies that contemporary fact, but it is also true that Jews lived in Israel before contemporary Arabs emmigrated there.
It's also true, that the anchestors of the Palestinians lived there long before an Israelite state has been established or Israelites were established as a people.

Having said this, it doesn't matter to me who has the older rights when it comes to a solution there.
 
It's also true, that the anchestors of the Palestinians lived there long before an Israelite state has been established or Israelites were established as a people.

At this point in history, these ancestors were the ancestors of both the Palestinians and the Israelites, so this is not entirely true.

Having said this, it doesn't matter to me who has the older rights when it comes to a solution there.

Completely agree.
 
At this point in history, these ancestors were the ancestors of both the Palestinians and the Israelites, so this is not entirely true.
Yes, these anchestors were the anchestors of both, the Palestinians and the Israelites.
 
Yes, these anchestors were the anchestors of both, the Palestinians and the Israelites.

Be nice if people from both groups could remember this.
 
Here's a translation of an article that was published in Hidabroot.org website:
And he isn't Jew!

They want all the things that the haters of Jews in the region want, they want Israel! And of course they also want a big heap of dead Jews.


It was sent in an email to the system of Hidabroot.

0000984.jpg


To all the ones who don't know, Dennis Miller is a comedian that has a television show in the name of: Dennis Miller Live in the American TV channel HBO and recently he said the following things in his show regarding the situation in the Middle East.

A fast study about the situation is always an important thing, so as a service to all the Americans that didn't catch the issue yet, I'm offering you now the story about the Middle East in couple of sentences,

And this is how it goes

The Palestinians want a state of thier own.
But there's only one thing regarding it, there is no such word as Palestinians, it is an invented word.

The state of Israel was called Palestina even more than 2000 years ago. Like the word Wikinim, [Inside explanation: Wika is a paganic religion that based opon nature but not upon nature facts. The origin of it is in the 20th century and it combines elements of traditional witchcrafts (popular magia) with the teaching of Gerald Gardner. In it's origin form, Wika is a secret productivity religion that believes in a male God and in a feminine God. The mysterious rites of the male God and the feminine God are delivered to the believers through secret bringing in ceremonies. (Mysterious rites are axioms that can be understood only through an experiance and direct try). Through the years, many variations of this origin form, have been developed, including unique private specializations.] the word Palestine sounds like an ancient word but in fact, it's a new invention.

Before the Israelis won the land in the six days war, Gaza was rulled by Egypt and Judea and Samaria were rulled by the Jordanians, and there weren't no Palestinians.

Immediately as the Israelis started to raise on these lands, oranges in the diameter of basketball, what do you know, say Hi to the Palestinians that are crying for the hard connection to their stolen land and their nation.

So for the sake of decency, let's not use the word Palestinians any more to describe these wonderful people who are dancing out of joy on our deads [Inside explanation: the meaning is to the ones who were killed in the terror attacks in USA] untill someone is telling them that they are being photographed.

Instead of this, let's designate them as they are

Other Arabs that can't able to implement a thing in their life and prefer to cover themselves in a tempting melodrama of infinite struggle and death.

I know it's little bit heavy to use these words in CNN, but what's your opinion on the defnition:

Haters of Jews that came from a close distant.
O.K. so these haters of Jews want a state of their own.
Oups, just one more thing.
No, they are not.

They could be the owners of their state a long time ago in the last 30 years, and especially couple of years ago in Kamp David, but if you got a state of your own, you need to have trafic lights and trucks to take off the garbage and a ministry of agriculture...
And the most bad things are that you have to plan and to do things for a living.

It's not funny. Not at all.

They want all the things that the haters of Jews in the region want, they want Israel! And of course they also they want a big heap of dead Jews.

Why?

First of all, the attempt to destroy Israel - or the Zionist entity, as it's written in their books.

And secondly, the last 50 years allowed the Arab leaders to draw the attention of the people of their countries from the fact that they are the most miserable and poor and lagging blue collars on the lands of Allah.

And the lands of Allah for the people of these countries is definitely saying something...

It cause me to roll my eyes each time that the saintly persons are talking about an ethical justiceand about the history and the culture of the Muslims in the Middle East. If I didn't miss something, the Arabs didn't give the world anything apart of Algebra, that by the way, thanks very much, to hell with that.

Chew it well and understand

500 million Arabs and 5 million Jews.
Think about all the Arab countries as a foorball pitch and the state of Israel as a box of matches in the middle of the pitch.
And now the same guys are swearing that if Israel will give them half of herself, everybody will be good friends.

Really?

Wow! what a cool news.
Hey, but what with the continuing wars to destroy the small state and their jealous bloodthirsty laws to throw all the Jews to the sea?
Oh, this? We were just kidding.

My firend, Kevin Roney has made a very interesting comment yesterday.

Let's turn over the details

Imagine to yourself 500 million Jews and 5 million Arabs.
I stood amazed in front of the simplicity of the issue.

* Can someone imagine to himself the Jews putting on themselves razor blades and explosive belts? Of course not.

* Or recruit for themselves anything for many generations in order to push the little state of the Arabs to the sea? Not logic.

* Or dance out of joy upon the murder of innocents? Impossible.

* Or spread and believe in false horrors that the Arabs bake bread with blood of Jewish children? Shocking.

NO!
As you know, if the Jews were allowed to live in peace and fraternity, the most thing that the Jews could have done to others in the world is to argue with them till death.

President Bush, may God save his soul, is walking on a thin rope.

I understand this, in his essential tries in Iraq and in other countries.

It's our interest, as Americans, to try and keep the stability of our Arab allies as much as it can, because after all, it's not harder to do it than to keep on a hall full with super models that someone prevented the drugs from them.....

Despite this, in a long term strategy, there's always the danger of absence of stability. We already lost little bit.
After 9/11, our President have said to us and to the rest of the world that he is going to uproot all the terrorists from their roots and the countries that support them. Wonderful, so the Israelis, after months on months that they are going the equivalent of Oklahoma city, [Inside explanation about the terror attack in Oklahoma city] every week and also each day, when they started to do what we are doing, so we are telling them to show restraint. If America was bombed in a terror attack like Oklahoma city each day, we would immediately screamed at the government to eliminate it and to kill each thing that lives south to the Mediterranean sea and east to the Jordan Rriver.

And my blessings with you, live in peace, be healthy and happy, and have a wonderful life.

Feel free to pass it onward to all your friends and your addressees.
Source
 
Incredible. Now we're quoting Dennis Miller, of all people.

Actual statements from actual posts by the Face of Jacob:

"There's no such thing as Palestine."

"The state of Israel was called Palestina even more than 2000 years ago."
 
Volker said:
This was written by Larry Miller, not by Dennis Miller.

oops, I stand corrected.

And it still smells corny...
 
oops, I stand corrected.

And it still smells corny...
I don't know much about Dennis Miller, but people with decent intentions don't have to change the authorship when creating a mail. I'm not talking about Jacob here, I talk about the person who made this email in the first place.
 
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