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Theocracy thanks to liberals who refused to vote for Hillary

Craig234

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:ROFLMAO:....you don't even know what "far-left" is.

From where you (and people like you) sit, Atilla the Hun would look like a "far-left liberal".

There has never been a "far-left" president in this nation's history. FDR comes closest. And LBJ, who governed as POTUS contrary to the way he legislated as a Senator...,would be next. Both rank among the top 10 presidents in history....but neither was "far-left" (at least, not in the minds of people who know w.t.f. they are talking about).

There have, however, been several far-right presidents.

And then, there is the first-and-only LEGITIMATELY FASCIST president in our history........your Dear Leader, himself. Donald Trump.
Correct. FDR was rightly called 'the president who saved capitalism' against a growing Socialist movement rightly disgusted by the disasters of plutocratic capitalism that led to the Great Republican Depression. The country had its golden period thriving under those more left policies, until the country changed course with Reagan back to record inequality, $30 trillion in debt, economic crashes etc.
 

ultmd

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That's fair enough. So if we take 25% of Hillary supporters not voting for Obama, and a "sizable"/19% group of Obama supporters doing the same, and only 10% of Bernie supporters when they were people who are not Democrats and normally don't vote for Democrats so nearly all of his Democratic supporters voted for Hillary, it wouldn't be honest to single his supporters, who are the most supportive of the nominee, out as the worst.
Ok.

I don't think of them as "worst". Honestly, I think if they had the benefit of hindsight, they'd probably vote differently (i.e. for Clinton). I seriously doubt that many believed their votes would matter. And, honestly, EXCEPT for James Comey's historically bad/incompetent personal decision to publicly disclose a federal investigation of Clinton's campaign just a week before election day (while NOT disclosing that there was also a federal investigation of the Trump campaign underway as well)....Hillary would have won easily in 2016.

They affected the 'results' in the vote count, and they COULD have changed the election result. It doesn't make sense to say '25% of Hillary's Democratic supporters didn't back the nominee, but he won so it's fine, but 1% of Bernie's Democratic supporters didn't and she lost, so that's a far worse case'.
I don't know about the "1%", or whatever....but I otherwise agree in principle.

Again, I think if BOTH sides (Bernie and Hillary) could have a "do over".......

But we can't.

I think Bernie Sanders would have been a good POTUS. I think the same about Hillary Clinton. At the very worst, each would have improved things marginally, based upon their ability to garner Congressional support. And, of course....the SCOTUS thing......😤...still enrages me.

You haven't listened to what I said. Even though I said it over and over. THESE ARE NOT DEMOCRATS. Bernie drew support from never-Democrat voters who had trump as their second choice. They didn't vote for trump because they're spiteful ultra-liberal Democrats, they voted for trump because they're right-wingers who would not botte for any Democrat except Bernie.
LOL...I'm trying to "listen". I am.

Ok, so you're arguing that a lot of Bernie's voters were (or would have been) NEW to the Democratic Party in 2016....AND would have taken voters from Trump, right? I'm aware of that. And if I recall correctly, there was some support for that in the pre-election polls as well.

If so, I thinks that's a really valid point, as well. No argument at all, my friend. NONE.

Who knows how that would have played out. I suppose there is an argument that Bernie could have won even without 25% of Hillary's voters (assuming that those people decided to NOT vote)..simply by stealing votes from Trump. The net-result in that scenario would be a lower total turnout election, with a Bernie win.

Interesting thought-exercise.

I just know that I'd have eagerly voted for Bernie, if he got the nod. He didn't. But since I voted for Hillary, I do feel entitled to criticize any potential Bernie voters who voted for Trump (or stayed home)...and now regret it (in hindsight).

I agree with all that, and I remind you I supported and voted for Hillary strongly over trump in the general, as Bernie did and nearly all of his *Democratic* supporters.
Yep. And I wish more Bernie supporters (or just Hillary hating Dems/Indies) did the same.

As LBJ said: It's better to have your rivals INSIDE your tend, pissing out....rather than OUTSIDE your tent, pissing in.

You and I are political pragmatists/realists.

I love idealism. I dream idealistic dreams. But I live in reality.

Glad to hear it. It sounds to me like you just have a misunderstanding about Bernie's supporters this time. *I spent the election arguing against those fellow Bernie supporters who advocated against voting for Hillary*. I was almost at war with a forum that seemed dominated by those views.
Maybe so.

But it fits with what I said, about his strength at appealing to voters who normally won't vote for Democrats. We can't blame them for not supporting Hillary, they were never going to and they aren't Democrats. The error is in viewing them as "ultra-liberals" instead of as more right-wing. Ultra-liberals didn't turn from Bernie to trump.
Again, I think this is a great point and I'm sure it applies to many of the voters we're talking about.

Bernie's populist economic agenda crosses over many lines.
 

ultmd

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Correct. FDR was rightly called 'the president who saved capitalism' against a growing Socialist movement rightly disgusted by the disasters of plutocratic capitalism that led to the Great Republican Depression. The country had its golden period thriving under those more left policies, until the country changed course with Reagan back to record inequality, $30 trillion in debt, economic crashes etc.
No comment needed.

This just merits re-posting for the anti-intellectual, fakenews, social-media-loving morons on the right to re-read.

FDR absolutely, LITERALLY "saved" American capitalism. Absolutely correct.
 

KevinKohler

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I'm not defending Hillary's SUPPORTERS.
I am pointing out the fact that if we don't want to see this country sink into fascism, we'd better put aside ALL our petty grievances and work in unity come election day.
You seem to forget that most of my posts on this issue stretch WAY back BEFORE Hillary, or Obama, or Bernie's candidacy.

1968, ultra-progs refused to vote for HHH, we got Nixon.
Same with Nader.
Lather, rinse, repeat.

And if you remember some of my other responses, pointed at those who "refuse to sacrifice my principles" my favorite response was

View attachment 67399318


Sorry @Craig234 --- I respect your posts but you may be slightly overthinking this.
If we don't want Republicans setting the Constitution on fire, we'd better work as one .... 132 days from now.
Step 1 would be to fix the corruption within the DNC.

Hard to support a group that does what it wants regardless of the will of they folks they purport to represent.
 

Craig234

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FDR absolutely, LITERALLY "saved" American capitalism. Absolutely correct.
I should have added a point, that banking crashes have always been a feature of the US economy, EXCEPT during the FDR era from 1933 when regulations were passed to Reagan when they were repealed.

The Economic History Association notes, "Prior to the passage of deposit insurance legislation in 1933 banking panics were a recurrent feature of U.S. banking history. Three phases of that panic experience can be identified depending upon the type of regulatory framework in place: the pre-Civil War era, the National Banking era, and the era of the Federal Reserve System. Federal regulation was absent in the antebellum period with panics in 1819, 1837, 1857 and incipient panics in 1860 and 1861. During the National Banking era, banking panics occurred in 1873, 1893, and 1907 with incipient panics in 1884 and 1890. After the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, there were four full-scale banking panics, one in 1930, two in 1931, one in 1933 and a localized panic in Chicago in 1932."

Then FDR overhauled the system, regulating banks, creating the SEC, and the system stabilized. For the first time in history there were no banking crashes. For 50 years.

Then Reagan began de-regulation, and we quickly had the S&L crash, followed by more, including the Great Recession. But Republicans are blind to the facts and history, because they get injections of propaganda for their politics instead of facts, LIBS SUCK MAGA.
 

SkyChief

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dncc

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I just want to take time to vent about all the liberals who refused to vote for Hillary and allowed Trump to squeak by and turnover the SC to theocrats for generations. Imagine what the court would have looked like had Hillary won?

It frustrates me when ultra-liberals take this all-or-nothing approach and end up screwing things up for everyone.

More socialized medicine? Forget it. Labor right? lol. Gay rights? You'll be lucky if it's not illegal to be gay. Women's rights? gone.

Ultra-liberals are the most annoying group. They voted for Nader and gave us Bush and the Iraq war. They refused to vote for Hillary and gave us a lunatic and now a theocracy. Talk about self-defeating.
Absolutists....

Good for absolutely nothing.

Yeah, this attempt to steer us back into the dark ages is properly laid at the feet of democrats in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton. Trump won all 3 states by about 70,000 votes combined.

This is the result.
 

donhughesmusic

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I'm not assuming anything, child.

Biden made it crystal clear that he would run again for president.

Biden tells Obama he plans to seek reelection in 2024:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/politics/joe-biden-reelection-2024/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/politics/joe-biden-reelection-2024/index.html

Naturally, dems will will do everything they can to stop him.
Has he officially announced yet? Nope. I plan on doing lots of things. That doesn't mean I'm going to be able to do them. Telling a friend (like Biden told Obama) is not filing with the election commissions that he is running. I can tell my wife that I am going to run 3 miles today, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to do it.

Even Trump hasn't officially announced whether he is running or not.
 

SkyChief

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Has he officially announced yet? Nope. I plan on doing lots of things. That doesn't mean I'm going to be able to do them. Telling a friend (like Biden told Obama) is not filing with the election commissions that he is running. I can tell my wife that I am going to run 3 miles today, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to do it.

Even Trump hasn't officially announced whether he is running or not.
Trump?

Oh dear. :rolleyes:
 

SkyChief

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Hey, I don't want to see neither Trump NOR Biden run! I'm just not assuming either of them are until it is official.
My argument is based on FACTS.

"My plan is to run for reelection' in 2024" - Joe Biden

Your argument is based on nonsense and speculation.
 
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donhughesmusic

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My argument is based on FACTS.

"My plan is to run for reelection' in 2024" - Joe Biden

Your argument is based on nonsense and speculation.
My argument is also based on fact. Joseph Biden has not officially registered for re-election with any election commission. We do not know what is going to happen between now and then. My plan is to go to work tomorrow. However, if something happens here at home God forbid, there is a chance I won't. Your argument is based on his statement that he PLANS on it. Officially, and legally, he has not done the necessary steps. As of right this second, NO ONE is OFFICIALLY running for President. Nixon planned to stay in office, but things changed, and he didn't.
 

SkyChief

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My argument is also based on fact. Joseph Biden has not officially registered for re-election with any election commission. We do not know what is going to happen between now and then. My plan is to go to work tomorrow. However, if something happens here at home God forbid, there is a chance I won't. Your argument is based on his statement that he PLANS on it. Officially, and legally, he has not done the necessary steps. As of right this second, NO ONE is OFFICIALLY running for President. Nixon planned to stay in office, but things changed, and he didn't.
Nixon?

OMG. 😞

I think we're done, child.
 

Northern Light

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What an absurd analysis.

The DNC turfed their best candidate, Bernie Sanders. (I personally wouldn't vote for the guy but there's no denying he had popularity.) The DNC is just as money grubbing and into "establishment" power as the GOP that they would rather put forward the Clinton dynasty than run new blood who stood a good chance of winning the popular vote. That's how petty they are. They wanted to make sure their old establishment power maintained rule, even though it alienated Dem supporters. Trump won by default because a lot of lefties did not want to vote for HRC. The Dems dug their own grave. I didn't even vote in that election because the candidates were so abysmal.

Furthermore, when it comes to SCOTUS, Ginsburg could've stepped down during the Obama admin and there could've been a chance of getting at least one nominee on the bench, but she held onto power until she croaked during Trump's admin. This is unfortunately what a lot of left-wingers don't see: the Democrats are just as lustful for power as the GOP are. They cling to power selfishly at the expense of the nation's best interest. The scales then tip into fundamentalist territory and everyone cries about it... but nobody practiced prevention.

Anyway, I just came here to state my main point, which is that we really need to move on from these dynasty politicians. I don't want to see anymore Clintons or Bushs in power. It's so overdone. Appoint new blood.
 

Real Korimyr #9

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I didn't "fail" to vote for Clinton, like some of her deranged bootlickers keep saying-- I deliberately and knowingly voted for someone else, because she is a corrupt right-wing authoritarian who-- with everything else at stake in this country-- decided her highest priority was passing an arbitrary "assault weapons ban".

If you want to blame someone for Trump 2016, blame her political machine for knowing she was the second-most unpopular presidential candidate ever, and putting her on top of the ticket anyway because it was "her turn". Blame them for setting up a moronic loudmouth compulsive liar as a strawman and then losing to him.

**** Hillary Clinton and **** her delusional "lost cause" cultists. If anyone in the Democratic Party really believed that Trump was as much of a threat to democracy as they say he was-- and he was-- they wouldn't have thought 2016 was the year to gamble on our future. Well, they did, and they lost and it is their fault and their fault alone.

Go ahead, blame your own voterbase for your own failure to serve them and see how that works out for you. After all, these are only the most important midterms in our lives... I'm sure you'll have plenty more to blame us for by 2024.
 

Antiwar

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Absolutists....

Good for absolutely nothing.

Yeah, this attempt to steer us back into the dark ages is properly laid at the feet of democrats in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton. Trump won all 3 states by about 70,000 votes combined.

This is the result.

With respect:

I don't blame you for being uninformed about how T**** became president. Hardly anyone talks about Interstate Crosscheck. I don't know if the Green Party tried to do anything about it. I doubt that the Democratic Party did anything about it. But, if one looks into it, it's obvious that Republicans had the opportunity and very likely did purge A LOT of people off of voter rolls in "Republican states." Maybe you could look at the Wikipedia page and see if MI, PA, and WI were using Interstate Crosscheck, and reply with that information.
 
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Antiwar

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With respect:

You know why else Hillary Clinton lost 2016? The unequal voting-power of the electoral college gave T**** a big voting-power advantage.

Yep, you're right, that's the fault of the people that didn't vote for your candidate.
 

dncc

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I didn't "fail" to vote for Clinton, like some of her deranged bootlickers keep saying-- I deliberately and knowingly voted for someone else, because she is a corrupt right-wing authoritarian who-- with everything else at stake in this country-- decided her highest priority was passing an arbitrary "assault weapons ban".

If you want to blame someone for Trump 2016, blame her political machine for knowing she was the second-most unpopular presidential candidate ever, and putting her on top of the ticket anyway because it was "her turn". Blame them for setting up a moronic loudmouth compulsive liar as a strawman and then losing to him.

**** Hillary Clinton and **** her delusional "lost cause" cultists. If anyone in the Democratic Party really believed that Trump was as much of a threat to democracy as they say he was-- and he was-- they wouldn't have thought 2016 was the year to gamble on our future. Well, they did, and they lost and it is their fault and their fault alone.

Go ahead, blame your own voterbase for your own failure to serve them and see how that works out for you. After all, these are only the most important midterms in our lives... I'm sure you'll have plenty more to blame us for by 2024.
If you could go back in time, would you have voted for Hillary knowing what has transpired in this nation since then?
 

dncc

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What an absurd analysis.

The DNC turfed their best candidate, Bernie Sanders. (I personally wouldn't vote for the guy but there's no denying he had popularity.) The DNC is just as money grubbing and into "establishment" power as the GOP that they would rather put forward the Clinton dynasty than run new blood who stood a good chance of winning the popular vote. That's how petty they are. They wanted to make sure their old establishment power maintained rule, even though it alienated Dem supporters. Trump won by default because a lot of lefties did not want to vote for HRC. The Dems dug their own grave. I didn't even vote in that election because the candidates were so abysmal.

Furthermore, when it comes to SCOTUS, Ginsburg could've stepped down during the Obama admin and there could've been a chance of getting at least one nominee on the bench, but she held onto power until she croaked during Trump's admin. This is unfortunately what a lot of left-wingers don't see: the Democrats are just as lustful for power as the GOP are. They cling to power selfishly at the expense of the nation's best interest. The scales then tip into fundamentalist territory and everyone cries about it... but nobody practiced prevention.

Anyway, I just came here to state my main point, which is that we really need to move on from these dynasty politicians. I don't want to see anymore Clintons or Bushs in power. It's so overdone. Appoint new blood.
Bernie didn't win a single large state against Hillary. If he was "popular", it didn't show.

1656649614730.png
 

EMNofSeattle

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If you could go back in time, would you have voted for Hillary knowing what has transpired in this nation since then?
If everyone could go back in time to the 2020 election Trump would win in a landslide, or at least one big enough that blue city officials couldn’t fix
 

Real Korimyr #9

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If you could go back in time, would you have voted for Hillary knowing what has transpired in this nation since then?
No, not under any circumstances. She is a criminal and an authoritarian. She voted for us to enter into an aggressive war on false pretenses, and then politically benefited from "opposing" it. She threatened and demeaned the women her husband raped, and became a feminist icon. And, fundamentally, she made it clear that her top political priority in running for President was to pass another arbitrary "assault weapons ban" that serves no legitimate, non-political purpose-- more than a better comprehensive healthcare system, more than tuition control and relieving student debts, more than protecting American women from GOP meddling and protecting American LGBT+ from subjugation and violence, more than literally any other reason that I prefer the Democratic Party to the GOP.

It's an unfortunate political reality that I often have to vote for a candidate who opposes my highest political principle in order to support all of my other political principles. But when a politician like Hillary Clinton makes that her highest political principle, and shows no signs whatsoever of giving a Tuppenny **** about any of my other political principles?

I have literally no reason to vote for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances. Hillary Clinton, and the DNC, have given me no reason.

Wyoming's three-to-one support for Trump over Clinton will have to remain unchallenged by my single vote. Even if I lived in one of the States where my vote mattered... no.

I vote for people; I do not vote against them. And if you put a gun to my head and told me I either had vote for Trump or Clinton, you're going to have to shoot me.

For the record? I voted for Sanders in the Democratic Party and Johnson in the general election. If you took me back to 2016, I would probably decline to vote for Sanders again... but I don't know what else I could have done with that vote.
 

Real Korimyr #9

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If everyone could go back in time to the 2020 election Trump would win in a landslide, or at least one big enough that blue city officials couldn’t fix
Well, that is a certainly a belief. Biden might be a bit of a placeholder (at best) but at least he's not an active, ongoing threat to the rule of law.
 

Craig234

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For the record? I voted for Sanders in the Democratic Party and Johnson in the general election. If you took me back to 2016, I would probably decline to vote for Sanders again... but I don't know what else I could have done with that vote.

There's a good example of your 'Bernie supporter who didn't vote for Hillary'. I would have pushed him to vote for her (in the general). But he's not an 'ultraliberal', a 'Democrat' who didn't vote for Hillary, he's someone who would vote for Bernie but not Hillary or trump, and now even questions voting for Bernie. That is NOT the 'ultra liberal' or a salvagable vote for Hillary, it was a strength of Bernie to attract such people that would help him beat trump.
 

Real Korimyr #9

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There's a good example of your 'Bernie supporter who didn't vote for Hillary'. I would have pushed him to vote for her (in the general). But he's not an 'ultraliberal', a 'Democrat' who didn't vote for Hillary, he's someone who would vote for Bernie but not Hillary or trump, and now even questions voting for Bernie. That is NOT the 'ultra liberal' or a salvagable vote for Hillary, it was a strength of Bernie to attract such people that would help him beat trump.
I just like telling people I voted for Sanders in the primaries and Johnson in the election, and watching their shitty little primate brains implode.
 
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