The world, united against Russia's naked aggressive war of mass murder against Ukraine. Right?

[Antiwar]

Somebody, and I can't remember who, equated far-right and far-left Americans' support for Putin under the horseshoe theory.

You're doing a very good job of making that poster's point.

It's probably more weak commentary.

 

[Fishking]

Well, we in the US are - Russia's long adversary. And Europe, the world's modern bastion of democracy and NATO allies, is united with us against Russia.

And, well, the whole world agrees pretty much. Right?

As a test, I considered the recent UN vote to expel Russia from the human rights panel.

93 countries voted to expel them.

But, guess what - 82 countries did not.

And I looked a list of the world's 10 most populated countries. Of the ten, only the US voted to expel them. Just the populations of the other 9 - much less all 82 - total over half of the world's population.

This is an utterly clear case of unjustified war, mass murder, as Zelensky says 'no crime they won't commit' as they target childrens' sanctuaries and hospitals, rape and torture and bomb refugees and evacuation lines.

And with all that, all the clear evidence and the lies, a large majority of the world's people are under governments that refused to vote to expel Russia from the human rights council.

We have a hell of an issue in the world in this conflict between democratic countries, and authoritarian, tyrannical, corrupt and other such anti-democracy or otherwise problematic countries, in the coming increase of China, who is dedicated to ending democracy, becomes the world's leading economy end develops its military power.

Dude...Saudi Arabia sat on the HR council. You think it means anything?

 

[Craig234]

US hypocrisy has a lot to do with Russia's aggression, as does NATO.

Incorrect; you have fallen for Putin's propaganda. US hypocrisy and NATO are convenient excuses and scapegoats for his war, not real causes. Did Putin actually agree to withdraw his forces and not invade if Ukraine didn't join NATO? Did Putin agree with withdraw after invading when Zelensky offered to not join NATO? No. Putin recently gave a speech declaring he's entitled to force several countries into Russia, re-creating the Russian empire.

 

[Antiwar]

Incorrect; you have fallen for Putin's propaganda. US hypocrisy and NATO are convenient excuses and scapegoats for his war, not real causes. Did Putin actually agree to withdraw his forces and not invade if Ukraine didn't join NATO? Did Putin agree with withdraw after invading when Zelensky offered to not join NATO? No. Did Putin give a speech *admitting* he feels entitled to take control of several other countries? He sure did.

You misinterpreted my comment; I didn't say that US hypocrisy caused Russia's aggression. But, at least one progressive pundit I've heard said in a very clear way that the US wanted and caused this to happen, and I think he made a very good case.

P**** being an autocrat and warrior doesn't change the fact that the US/NATO are very hypocritical, to put it mildly.

 

[Razoo]

Number one the anti american right wingnuts stain the USA with anti human rights politics which is no secret. Nothing about the USA anti human rights the ALEC people represent is unknown.

Number two I learned hands on during our honeymoon what people from around the world think about USA imperialism thus not a lot of high marks. These are people in other countries who have been affected in some way with our imperialistic government activities that most of us might not be aware of. The conservative side of USA government is aggressive to say the least.

The governments of Russia, USA or China receive high marks.

Number 3 perhaps some of those countries who failed to vote against Russia might be afraid of Russian
repercussions.

Comments by Craig234 are warranted no question about it.

"The governments of Russia, USA and China DO NOT receive high marks on human rights.....or restraining
our military might.

 

[Tigerace117]

The OP has nothing to do with Iraq. That's your diversion that shows your desperation not to answer the question.

Maybe instead of pretending to speak for what is best for Ukraine, you could listen to what Ukraine actually wants?

It has everything to do with Iraq. The OP said that a lot of the world’s countries aren’t actually on board with team USA, and I pointed out that’s because they see us as raving hypocrites.

The Ukrainians want American troops shooting it out with Russian ones, so I’ll pass.

 

[Citizen]

Well, we in the US are - Russia's long adversary. And Europe, the world's modern bastion of democracy and NATO allies, is united with us against Russia.

And, well, the whole world agrees pretty much. Right?

As a test, I considered the recent UN vote to expel Russia from the human rights panel.

93 countries voted to expel them.

But, guess what - 82 countries did not.

And I looked a list of the world's 10 most populated countries. Of the ten, only the US voted to expel them. Just the populations of the other 9 - much less all 82 - total over half of the world's population.

This is an utterly clear case of unjustified war, mass murder, as Zelensky says 'no crime they won't commit' as they target childrens' sanctuaries and hospitals, rape and torture and bomb refugees and evacuation lines.

And with all that, all the clear evidence and the lies, a large majority of the world's people are under governments that refused to vote to expel Russia from the human rights council.

We have a hell of an issue in the world in this conflict between democratic countries, and authoritarian, tyrannical, corrupt and other such anti-democracy or otherwise problematic countries, in the coming increase of China, who is dedicated to ending democracy, becomes the world's leading economy end develops its military power.

The rest of the world did the very same thing. China even pulled people out of their homes.

 

[OrphanSlug]

At this point I am not convinced most of the US is against Russia's naked aggressive war of mass murder against Ukraine.

Between Putin / Russian apologists appealing to conspiracy theory and some on the left wanting Russian Oligarchs left alone I am beginning to think Putin's campaign of disinformation in the US is working well.

 

[Craig234]

The rest of the world did the very same thing. China even pulled people out of their homes.

The same thing as what?

 

[Tigerace117]

Incorrect; you have fallen for Putin's propaganda. US hypocrisy and NATO are convenient excuses and scapegoats for his war, not real causes. Did Putin actually agree to withdraw his forces and not invade if Ukraine didn't join NATO? Did Putin agree with withdraw after invading when Zelensky offered to not join NATO? No. Putin recently gave a speech declaring he's entitled to force several countries into Russia, re-creating the Russian empire.

Once again, the reason the countries you mentioned stayed neutral is PRECISELY because they see our condemnations as hollow and hypocritical in the wake of Iraq.

 

[MamboDervish]

Did you read the OP?

Yep.

 

[Craig234]

Yep.

Because you said most of the world is united against Putin, and the OP lays out that a large majority of the world is countries that did not vote to expel him from the human rights panel, suggesting they're not so against him.

 

[Variant]

At this point I am not convinced most of the US is against Russia's naked aggressive war of mass murder against Ukraine.

Between Putin / Russian apologists appealing to conspiracy theory and some on the left wanting Russian Oligarchs left alone I am beginning to think Putin's campaign of disinformation in the US is working well.

General polling will usually give us the information that a good percentage of any given population is stupid.

 

[Citizen]

The same thing as what?

Sorry, responded to the wrong post

 

[MamboDervish]

Because you said most of the world is united against Putin, and the OP lays out that a large majority of the world is countries that did not vote to expel him from the human rights panel, suggesting they're not so against him.

Did you read your own OP? 93 VOTED to expel - 82 did not. It's easy enough to conclude that the countries that VOTED to expel are the countries where people VOTE for their governments. In other words, their government's vote is roughly aligned with their citizens. Likewise, I'm willing to conclude that the countries that voted against expulsion include all the countries that, like Russia, are similarly authoritarian, where the populace themselves have little say in what their governments choose to do.

So unless you have some data actually recording more than half the adult population of the planet actually voting in Russia's favor, I'm more than happy to draw my own conclusion that the majority of Earth's population, when given the truth, are on the side opposed to naked aggression, and the forceable recreation of the borders of the old USSR. That's my reasoning.

 

[Craig234]

Did you read your own OP? 93 VOTED to expel - 82 did not. It's easy enough to conclude that the countries that VOTED to expel are the countries where people VOTE for their governments. In other words, their government's vote is roughly aligned with their citizens. Likewise, I'm willing to conclude that the countries that voted against expulsion include all the countries that, like Russia, are similarly authoritarian, where the populace themselves have little say in what their governments choose to do.

So unless you have some data actually recording more than half the adult population of the planet actually voting in Russia's favor, I'm more than happy to draw my own conclusion that the majority of Earth's population, when given the truth, are on the side opposed to naked aggression, and the forceable recreation of the borders of the old USSR. That's my reasoning.

You missed the point, I think. There's a reason why I phrased it that a large majority of people are *in countries with governments who did not vote to expel Russia*. To be blunt, it raises the question, does the opinion of the people matter compared to their government? If North Koreans re crying for Ukraine while the leader votes with Putin, does it matter?

I think that's the more important point - that a large majority of the planet has government not expelling Putin. It's the government that decides who to help or hurt. Once you accept that's what matters but still want to talk about public opinion, that's hard to determine and debatable, but I'll tell you that those governments have more influence over their citizens' views than you seem to appreciate.

The big ones are countries like China and India. In China, the government's total control of information is very effective, and most of the people are cheering Putin. In India, it's said "India’s stance on the Ukraine war reflects the tremendous domestic public support that Russia enjoys compared to the United States, a reality that Washington has seemingly yet to grasp.". Why is MEXICO not expelling Putin?

So you ask for evidence but then don't care about evidence in deciding to make an assumption you support - one that appears largely incorrect. My point was about governments rather than people - but for reasons some about government power over public opinion and some not because of that, the public opinion doesn't seem to be as anti-Putin as you think. Admittedly there is some that is, thankfully - but as I implied, so?

 

[pinqy]

Well, we in the US are - Russia's long adversary. And Europe, the world's modern bastion of democracy and NATO allies, is united with us against Russia.

And, well, the whole world agrees pretty much. Right?

As a test, I considered the recent UN vote to expel Russia from the human rights panel.

93 countries voted to expel them.

But, guess what - 82 countries did not.

And I looked a list of the world's 10 most populated countries. Of the ten, only the US voted to expel them. Just the populations of the other 9 - much less all 82 - total over half of the world's population.

This is an utterly clear case of unjustified war, mass murder, as Zelensky says 'no crime they won't commit' as they target childrens' sanctuaries and hospitals, rape and torture and bomb refugees and evacuation lines.

And with all that, all the clear evidence and the lies, a large majority of the world's people are under governments that refused to vote to expel Russia from the human rights council.

We have a hell of an issue in the world in this conflict between democratic countries, and authoritarian, tyrannical, corrupt and other such anti-democracy or otherwise problematic countries, in the coming increase of China, who is dedicated to ending democracy, becomes the world's leading economy end develops its military power.

One word (ok, one acronym): BRICS. Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.

While not an alliance, these five countries meet regularly as the top emerging economies, and have close economic interests. Other countries expressing an interest in joining are: Argentina, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, Turkey. I haven't looked at the UN vote, but I would be very surprised if any of those countries, including NATO member Turkey, voted against Russia.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Well, we in the US are - Russia's long adversary. And Europe, the world's modern bastion of democracy and NATO allies, is united with us against Russia.

And, well, the whole world agrees pretty much. Right?

As a test, I considered the recent UN vote to expel Russia from the human rights panel.

93 countries voted to expel them.

But, guess what - 82 countries did not.

And I looked a list of the world's 10 most populated countries. Of the ten, only the US voted to expel them. Just the populations of the other 9 - much less all 82 - total over half of the world's population.

This is an utterly clear case of unjustified war, mass murder, as Zelensky says 'no crime they won't commit' as they target childrens' sanctuaries and hospitals, rape and torture and bomb refugees and evacuation lines.

And with all that, all the clear evidence and the lies, a large majority of the world's people are under governments that refused to vote to expel Russia from the human rights council.

We have a hell of an issue in the world in this conflict between democratic countries, and authoritarian, tyrannical, corrupt and other such anti-democracy or otherwise problematic countries, in the coming increase of China, who is dedicated to ending democracy, becomes the world's leading economy end develops its military power.

It's called Politics, it's world wide.
The west is content to claim we support Ukraine and are doing all we can but are we? No, because we have refused plenty of aid we could provide, even short of troops.

 

[Razoo]

It's called Politics, it's world wide.
The west is content to claim we support Ukraine and are doing all we can but are we? No, because we have refused plenty of aid we could provide, even short of troops.

such as .........

 

[The Mark]

That's because what the west tells everyone is "democracy" is really authoritarianism. Just look at what the west did about COVID.

I think you're being just a bit hyperbolic here.

 

[Mycroft]

I think you're being just a bit hyperbolic here.

Not in the slightest.

 

[The Mark]

Not in the slightest.

You might even believe that's true.

 

[Craig234]

One word (ok, one acronym): BRICS. Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.

While not an alliance, these five countries meet regularly as the top emerging economies, and have close economic interests. Other countries expressing an interest in joining are: Argentina, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, Turkey. I haven't looked at the UN vote, but I would be very surprised if any of those countries, including NATO member Turkey, voted against Russia.

I'll save you the trouble. None of "BRICS" voted to expel Russia; of the rest, only Argentina and Turkey did.

Good point, that supports my point about how much opposition to the democracy/west alliance there is.

 

[Hamish Howl]

That's because what the west tells everyone is "democracy" is really authoritarianism. Just look at what the west did about COVID.

The butthurt is strong in this one.

 

[pinqy]

I'll save you the trouble. None of "BRICS" voted to expel Russia; of the rest, only Argentina and Turkey did.

Huh. I am surprised at Turkey: NATO must have put some pressure on them.

Good point, that supports my point about how much opposition to the democracy/west alliance there is.

I would say that it’s more their self interest than opposition. If they become too dependent on the US, that gives the US a lot of power over them. Russia and China are good alternatives who are not going to exert pressure to be less authoritative or care about civil rights. It’s not so much that they are in opposition to the West, but that they are afraid if the West ever becomes opposed to them (more directly).