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I guess not. What's wrong? Are you sure you are not being nostalgic again?
How is it "rotting"? Be specific.
let me disagree with one little thing you said:
- SNIP -
That is why it is "normal" that the president of France isn't black: there are less black people and they have come much more recently.
...and why do we not help these people? The spending on the Iraq war could have made agriculture and knowledge about agriculture in Africa quite advanced..
So the people will have room to manouver and take over power from the class of moron politicians we have around the world now(except those in the Eu institiutions ofcourse)
As if we have no moral obligations in Africa? The question was, why didnt we go there instead of Iraq, then you cite "moral obligations"... Dont know if I should cry or laugh...
Briefly... bigger picture is that many more people starve and die in Africa, and that the strategically best thing would be to get Africa on our side before it is too late.. 1 trillion and the effort of the Americans and the Europeans getting involved in a cooperation in this way, also commiting military forces would go a VERY VERY logn way to do this.. The Iraq war did nothing, except regime change and causing US economic disaster..
Yes yes, the middle east is not peaceful, but need to be approached in a very different way..
Democracy isnt all that great...
What American treasure? The one in the Chinese central banks? The US debt in Europe, the US debt around the world? The newly printed debt-dollars?
I believe Europe and the US should work together for solutions, and Africa should in my opinion be the main benefitiary..
Get real man, the US is heading for irrelevancy.. Europe and the US have always been the same and we have been allies for a long time(in US history), and we should help you and you us in changing things in for example Africa. nd if we combine our military might and economy, perhaps also this decade can be a western decade. I would hardly love to see the US desperately cling to power by advancing their military and nothing else, and doing wars around the world.. Not how I would like things to become...
Many European countries are in Africa... European military vessels are the first one to be involved in protecting the seas outside the coast of Somalia.. They are even discussing a small European navy fleet to go down there under European flags rather than national ones.
Euroep is the only one aside from China who is changing the current. Europe is undergoing great changes, China also.. The US is still stuck in its 1700 style political system, dumb wit politicians and arrogant and ignorant foreign policies.. How about actually doing some good things in your own country? Like getting rid of poverty and so fourth?
Ok ok, I give up.. You are right about everything because the US is going to have a black president.. Sorry.. :roll:
We dont need to march for something we have, nor did we need to end slavery like the US did..
Bypassed the whole US air force, making them stand down while they flew two planes far of route into the city of New York and into your two tallest buidings, the ones with asbestos and fat new insurance policies..
NATO and all this will have to be another discussion.. I just believe in a single European military force which can be in alliance with the US military force..
I had another point. It's not a matter of normal. Maximus is fond of looking for that which he can bash. One of the favorites among the Global Left is to exaggerate America as a "racist country" rather than a progressive country with racism in it. There is a huge difference. For example, a racist country would be what we see with Saudi Arabia where racism is a matter of lawful mandate and an encouragement.
With Obama, the anti-American Global Left are left looking for another topic to "set us apart" from their perfect world. And when speaking of how Europe is more advanced in terms of society and government, as Maximus declared, "where's you black guy" seems appropriate enough.
And here we are again. The spending on the Iraq War is frankly none of your concern since it is American money.
Why don't you ask yourself where the EU is in regards to that starving in Africa? I believe the slaughter in Sudan was untouched despite Bush and Blair forcing the UN to take a glance. And how about Congo? Isn't the UN begging the EU to do something other than deliberate and ponder? Let me guess...the mighty EU is waiting on America to get in front or to offer a check book.
Oh, Maximus. Don't you know that politicians are politicians and every coup leads to merely more politicians? This is the real world where coups lead to the Khomeinis and people taking over power from the "moron" politicians lead to the Hitlers.
Well, this is a very good point. Problem though, is that while America and a few allies focused on our obligation in Iraq, the next powerful and critical of our "allies" didn't find it in themselves to do too much for Africa at all. Perhaps you should look at your own governments and ponder why they have refused any and all obligations in Africa and the Middle East instead of looking towards America despite it's actions of obligation in both.
Once again...American troops have been in the HOA for years. Where is the EU? You talk about "instead", but the truth is that only the EU is absent. Iraq is about the Middle East. The HOA is about Africa. Where is the EU? Certainly not in Congo. Or does America have to place troops on Europe's side of Africa as well?
Dont you see it? Middle east is just getting worse when you wage wars there, its like putting water in boiling oil. Splash and explode.Once the thorn in the region was removed, these different ways will begin to work.
Fond historical thoughts of Hitler? Muslims in the ME deserve their dictator, but Europeans deserve better? This is what it comes down to.
I happebn to believe in the benevolent dictator concept. However, this isn't practical so why preach on it?
Well, gee. You speak of "our" trillions to Iraq as if it would have lifted Africa into utopia, yet here you are pretending that we have no treasure at all? Your anti-Americanism seems to be confused. You want to see the world's economy wither to nothing? America only needs to close its door and cut off the leeches.
Oh is that what you believe? You have posts on record for dragging America through the mud while entertaining your fantasy that the EU is next in line, yet here you are seeking a more humble and practical reality? And, of course, you are also on record for declaring America without treasure so what could we possibly offer the great and absent EU in Africa? Hell this thread was about bashing on America. If America can take out to twisted regimes and struggle through to creating two democracies in a region long abused by European powers and dabbled about and maintained by Soviet and American powers then certainly Europe can do something of worth in even tghe smallest part of Africa on its own?
America hasn't been the problem. Criticize Europe. We have decades of one way roads behind us.
If we are headed for irrelevency than the EU should be good on its own. And what's this about combining our military might? What's this come to, 80/20? With Bosnia and Afghanistan as examples, Europe isn't offering much in the way of military might.
Perhaps you should look into this more. The UN is begging the EU to do more than the almost nothing it is doing. European ships off the coast of Somalia have merely met up with American ships that are constantly traversing those waters. The strategic must in Africa right now is the HOA where US Marines have been deployed for years.
...and discussing matters in the European fashion leads to America stepping in (Bosnia anyone?).
How's your economy? And how is unemployment? And what about that exponentially growing immigration burden right now? We Americans like to think that we have it sooo bad, but the truth is that Europe has it far worse and its consistent. But thanks for taking it upon yourself to offer advice to those who are way ahead of your problems.
But...but....what happened to racist America and its inferior status to European society? Once again...where's your black guy?
That's right. The European solution has always been to export the inferior culture or to slaughter them off until the populaiton is "pure" again. From inquisitions, to ethnic displacements, to genocide. History speaks loudly even up to the entirety of the 20th century. Perhaps America culd have spared itself the civil war and the civil rights marches by exporting our problems too. We like to think that we faced our problem the way all civilizations should. It was America that made the statement about slavery through our civil war and America that set the standard for civil rights and equality via our marches.
The whole US AirForce? All of them? The anti-American at his desperate obtuse best. It was probably the whole Coast Guard too, huh?
Like in Afghanistan? The thing about the Euro/American alliance is that America will always be left to burden the work load unless another Hitler crosses your borders. Other than that, the "alliance" is a joke. You believe in a fantasy. And "if" America is to lose its global power then it only needs to withdraw and leave Europe to its own devices. We'll be fine.
I would love nothing more than true political reform, to bring political systems across the world into modernity rather than the current pre-industrial political systems we have.. Americas political system is one of the very worst in the developed world.
Europes economy is more diverse and have stronger fundamentals which is why the collapse is not that broad over here as it is in the paper based "gambling" economy of the US..
Europes political climate and governance is modern, ever developing and very proactive.. It is more advanced in terms of government, and adding all the nations of Europe under it I also believe our society is far more diverse and advanced, yes..
Yes it is.. I want America to succeed, and to do that it needs to spend money at home, it needs to reform a lot of things, upgrade infrastructure, bring healthcare to everyone and get rid of poverty, not spend money abroad in useless wars that just creates trouble..
IN addition to all member states donating more to Africa than the US in % of GDP, The European Union also donates foreign aid to help Africa.. I hope they will do more, it angers me that the programs are unprogressive like it has always been. Foreign aid needs to be injected with ambitions all across the world to avoid just dumping food on starving Africans and pretend that everything is fine..
The EU for some reason and the nations in it was about to send troops to congo, pan European army groups to bring stability, it was stopped, but the discussions are still there.. But hey, European military influence is still not that great, but improving fast, but slower than I would like..
Europe have the largest presence of troops in Africa.. Most are behind UN flag and in peacekeeping operations..
I wonder with all the new unemployment if it wouldnt be smart of Europe and America to boost their military troop numbers and get their hands dirty in Africa.
Dont you see it? Middle east is just getting worse when you wage wars there, its like putting water in boiling oil. Splash and explode.
The Chinese work together for their people, not against the other political grouping.
Btw. Do you have any treasure left?
Please, dont get stuck in the past, look at how things are now and think about how you want them to be in the future.. You can.. And again, Europe is all over Africa, but not doing enough..
Please dont underestimate European military capabilities, I know that you know better.
All this is why I believe Europe must combine forces and them combine them with American forces, and cooperate on strategy and future missions..
America is collapsing far faster..
Come on.. Are you really trying to say America is superior in terms of political progres just because you have now elected a black guy president? Wow, that really dissapoints me.. Take a broader look on things, please...
Have multiculturims ever worked? Are black people integrated completely into US society or arabs in European society?
I never actually said that 911 is a conspiracy, but it very well might have been.. And with you superior air force I find it strange that 911 could happen.
Can you aswer me one thing? Why is port authority police in New York now acting as regular police, that I find strange..
I believe we need to renew European military forces and NATO to prepare for a new world that isnt the same as the post ww2 world.
How is Europe's economy more diverse? Explain this. Is the United States depending on a single industry I'm not aware of?
It's always been an illusion and every crisis shows more and more truth. The European tribes needed to do something to fix their economies so they united them. Now they bicker over how to fix the economy. The European tribes bicker over military deployment. The problem with combining tribes is that eventually every single one will seek autonomy, especially during that crisis. And immigration will add to the pressures of trying to spackle the tribal cracks in the EU.
:roflNo, it's not. Unfortunately, after an entire Cold War spanning over 4 decades, Europe still can't babysit that which keeps it secure. It can't even protect itself as was proven with Bosnia. And with America allowing Europe to remain comfortably under our defense wings, we continue to not have the luxury to be selfish. Someone's got to do it out there and those that live out there deny their responsibility. Those that live out there refuse to man the posts. Which is why I have an isolationalist streak in me.
:roflAnd by the way...are you even aware of what has ocurred in the Middle East since 2003 besides the dwindling sensalionalist headlines? The more successful Iraq gets, the brighter the Middle East's future looks. And I would say that an exponentially growing extremist problem with nukes on the horizen is just as important as a festering misery in Africa. Probably more.
Throwing money towards corruption only strengthens the problems of Africa. I believe Bush and Blair argued this very well while offering conditions on how they should receive our wealth. But I love how you people like to use the "% in UDP" to massage the numbers and wash your hands. In addition to actual annual aid, we spend money on a military that is out there. We spend money on far more NGOs that are out there. It's like arguing that you have done your share by writing a check at the digging site and offering it to the embezzling foreman while another player actually brought the tools and manpower.
This is exactly what I'm, talking about. It was stopped because the tribes couldn't agree. And when it does agree, it will be with conditions and it will be a repeat of Somalia.
Forty plus years saw Europe lick its wounds and selfishly cater to self while America did the heavy lifting work around the globe. By the time Bosnia came around, America was expected to do the heavy lifting still. And when 9/11 occurred, the European thanks was to deploy the bare minimum of troop strength (expecting America to burden the show) with a population that increasingly complained that it wasn't their problem.
Improving fast? European military influence is dismall and lacks a good punching ability. And as we have seen, they seem to relegate their forces to less violent schemes of defense. In other words....not where they are needed and can be useful.
:roflHow the hell am I suppose to do that when a post is limited in numbers of words you can have? I cant go through the whole of both economies, nor do I want to spend the effort to do so just for demostrating to you that I am right.
No, I can't. Despite the fact that Europe has countries speaking a large array of languages this does not make their economy more diverse. They have the same indrustries that the the US does.Isnt it obvious to you also that Europe is far more diverse? I am not saying the US economy is worse, but less diverse(and more vulnerable), even you can easily admit that.
Take financial gambling or the "papergambling" and stock market part of the economy, it accounts for a far larger part of the US economy than that of Europe making the US far more vulnerable in time of crisis than Europe, which is my point.
Europe is more manufacture and production based..
Yup all of the world's problems are at the fault of America.
If America does something, and things don't go smoothly, it's America's fault.
If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.
What a joke.
If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.
:rofl
Go ahead and use more than one post if you want. As for the bolded part, that's basically what a debate forum is all about. If you don't want to put forth the effort to demonstrate why you're right why are you even here?
No, I can't. Despite the fact that Europe has countries speaking a large array of languages this does not make their economy more diverse. They have the same indrustries that the the US does.
They are buying stocks in corporations that manufacture things. Europe does the same thing.
unknown said:Quote:
Yup all of the world's problems are at the fault of America.
If America does something, and things don't go smoothly, it's America's fault.
If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.
What a joke.
Response......
SixStringHero buddy, on the first page ^_^
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