• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Wisdom of our Founders: What John Adams Foretold Has Come True

Wehrwolfen

Banned
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
402
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
By W. Beatty
9/18/13


John Adams, in 1787, said:

"Property is surely a right of mankind as really as liberty. ... but the time would not be long before courage and enterprise would come, and pretexts be invented by degrees, ... in sharing it equally with its present possessors. Debts would be abolished first; taxes laid heavy on the rich, and not at all on the others; and at last a downright equal division of every thing be demanded, and voted. What would be the consequence of this? The idle, the vicious, the intemperate, would ... sell and spend all their share, and then demand a new division of those who purchased from them. ... anarchy and tyranny commence."​
The entire Adams passage is well worth the time it takes to read and understand it. I want to examine (in no particular order) some of Adams's thoughts and see how he foretold, over 200 years ago, the situation in which we live today.

{snip}
What's next? Confiscation! "The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities (aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can't sell to anyone but the Fed)." Obama has begun a plan to nationalize (aka confiscate) private pensions and to eliminate private retirement accounts, including IRAs and 401k plans.


Read more:
Articles: What John Adams Foretold Has Come True

Of course Progressives will attempt to negate the premise. However we do know in a Socialist atmosphere like Russia that is likely and it appears that is exactly what Obama speaks of in his references to redistribution of wealth.
 
By W. Beatty
9/18/13


John Adams, in 1787, said:

"Property is surely a right of mankind as really as liberty. ... but the time would not be long before courage and enterprise would come, and pretexts be invented by degrees, ... in sharing it equally with its present possessors. Debts would be abolished first; taxes laid heavy on the rich, and not at all on the others; and at last a downright equal division of every thing be demanded, and voted. What would be the consequence of this? The idle, the vicious, the intemperate, would ... sell and spend all their share, and then demand a new division of those who purchased from them. ... anarchy and tyranny commence."​
The entire Adams passage is well worth the time it takes to read and understand it. I want to examine (in no particular order) some of Adams's thoughts and see how he foretold, over 200 years ago, the situation in which we live today.

{snip}
What's next? Confiscation! "The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities (aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can't sell to anyone but the Fed)." Obama has begun a plan to nationalize (aka confiscate) private pensions and to eliminate private retirement accounts, including IRAs and 401k plans.


Read more:
Articles: What John Adams Foretold Has Come True

Of course Progressives will attempt to negate the premise. However we do know in a Socialist atmosphere like Russia that is likely and it appears that is exactly what Obama speaks of in his references to redistribution of wealth.

the founding fathers were scholars of history they knew what destroyed the great civilizations of the past and the roots of their destruction was big government and its citizens being forced to rely on those governments till those governments were not able to provide any more
 
By W. Beatty
9/18/13


John Adams, in 1787, said:

"Property is surely a right of mankind as really as liberty. ... but the time would not be long before courage and enterprise would come, and pretexts be invented by degrees, ... in sharing it equally with its present possessors. Debts would be abolished first; taxes laid heavy on the rich, and not at all on the others; and at last a downright equal division of every thing be demanded, and voted. What would be the consequence of this? The idle, the vicious, the intemperate, would ... sell and spend all their share, and then demand a new division of those who purchased from them. ... anarchy and tyranny commence."​
The entire Adams passage is well worth the time it takes to read and understand it. I want to examine (in no particular order) some of Adams's thoughts and see how he foretold, over 200 years ago, the situation in which we live today.

{snip}
What's next? Confiscation! "The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities (aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can't sell to anyone but the Fed)." Obama has begun a plan to nationalize (aka confiscate) private pensions and to eliminate private retirement accounts, including IRAs and 401k plans.


Read more:
Articles: What John Adams Foretold Has Come True

Of course Progressives will attempt to negate the premise. However we do know in a Socialist atmosphere like Russia that is likely and it appears that is exactly what Obama speaks of in his references to redistribution of wealth.

"Debt would be abolished first..."

We've got a long way to go before that happens.


"The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities..."

I've seen no evidence of that.


Next you'll be trying to tell us that Obama is a Muslim and wasn't born in the US. Oh wait....
 
"Debt would be abolished first..."

We've got a long way to go before that happens.


"The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities..."

I've seen no evidence of that.


Next you'll be trying to tell us that Obama is a Muslim and wasn't born in the US. Oh wait....

Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRA’s & 401k’s


By The Doc
November 22, 2012


It may be time to take the tax hit and withdraw funds from private retirement accounts before they are T-forced into long term T-bonds.

The Obama administration is reportedly quickly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities(aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can’t sell to anyone but the Fed).

National Seniors Council Director Robert Crone warns: “This whole issue is moving forward very quickly. Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.“

All your retirement savings are belong to us:

A recent hearing sponsored by the Treasury and Labor Departments marked the beginning of the Obama Administration’s effort to nationalize the nation’s pension system and to eliminate private retirement accounts including IRA’s and 401k plans, NSC is warning.

The hearing, held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium, was monitored by NSC staff and featured a line up of left-wing activists including one representative of the AFL-CIO who advocated for more government regulation over private retirement accounts and even the establishment of government-sponsored annuities that would take the place of 401k plans.

“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explains National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, “However, it is clear that this is the first step towards a government takeover. It feels just like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”

A representative of the liberal Pension Rights Center, Rebecca Davis, testified that the government needs to get involved because 401k plans and IRAs are unfair to poor people. She demanded the Obama administration set up a “government-sponsored program administered by the PBGC (the governments’ Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation).” She proclaimed that even “private annuities are problematic.”

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRA's & 401k's | SilverDoctors.com

Explain that to us. Can you cite anywhere in Obama's speeches where he claims he would protect the savings of American's?
 
Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRA’s & 401k’s


By The Doc
November 22, 2012


It may be time to take the tax hit and withdraw funds from private retirement accounts before they are T-forced into long term T-bonds.

The Obama administration is reportedly quickly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities(aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can’t sell to anyone but the Fed).

National Seniors Council Director Robert Crone warns: “This whole issue is moving forward very quickly. Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.“

All your retirement savings are belong to us:

A recent hearing sponsored by the Treasury and Labor Departments marked the beginning of the Obama Administration’s effort to nationalize the nation’s pension system and to eliminate private retirement accounts including IRA’s and 401k plans, NSC is warning.

The hearing, held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium, was monitored by NSC staff and featured a line up of left-wing activists including one representative of the AFL-CIO who advocated for more government regulation over private retirement accounts and even the establishment of government-sponsored annuities that would take the place of 401k plans.

“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explains National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, “However, it is clear that this is the first step towards a government takeover. It feels just like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”

A representative of the liberal Pension Rights Center, Rebecca Davis, testified that the government needs to get involved because 401k plans and IRAs are unfair to poor people. She demanded the Obama administration set up a “government-sponsored program administered by the PBGC (the governments’ Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation).” She proclaimed that even “private annuities are problematic.”

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRA's & 401k's | SilverDoctors.com

Explain that to us. Can you cite anywhere in Obama's speeches where he claims he would protect the savings of American's?

Thats not evidence, Werhwolfen....thats just another right wing lie....<yawn>


No Government 401(k) Takeover

Q: Is the Obama administration attempting to eliminate private 401(k)s and IRAs and create a “national retirement system”?

A: No. Obama endorses a proposal that would require businesses without retirement plans to establish private IRAs for their employees and deposit a percentage of wages into the accounts. Employees could opt out....

No Government 401(k) Takeover
 
Thats not evidence, Werhwolfen....thats just another right wing lie....<yawn>


No Government 401(k) Takeover

Q: Is the Obama administration attempting to eliminate private 401(k)s and IRAs and create a “national retirement system”?

A: No. Obama endorses a proposal that would require businesses without retirement plans to establish private IRAs for their employees and deposit a percentage of wages into the accounts. Employees could opt out....

No Government 401(k) Takeover




http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/house-discusses-401ki...

Voter News and Issues ~ Helpcom.net


http://mrssatan.blogspot.com/2008/11/democrats-eye-confiscati..."House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute. ["Redircting"...that sounds a lot like redistributing, as in 'redistributing wealth,' - or at least "redistributing" a significant tax break for the Middle Class. - Drake]"

The progressives need our 401k's to give to the progressive elite and to ensure that the people become enslaved to the government.

So when you hear a progressive claim he/she has your best interest in mind, you can tell him/her that they are full of crap.

The progressives and obama are seeking to confiscate individual retirement accounts.

ffffff-40636702587.jpeg
 
"Debt would be abolished first..."

We've got a long way to go before that happens.


"The Obama administration is reportedly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities..."

I've seen no evidence of that.


Next you'll be trying to tell us that Obama is a Muslim and wasn't born in the US. Oh wait....

You and Obama put together couldn't hold a candle to John Adam's pinky. You shouldn't talk about things you don't understand. Next you'll try to show us how smart you are about history, NOT.
 
You and Obama put together couldn't hold a candle to John Adam's pinky. You shouldn't talk about things you don't understand. Next you'll try to show us how smart you are about history, NOT.

ad hommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......
 
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/house-discusses-401ki...

Voter News and Issues ~ Helpcom.net


http://mrssatan.blogspot.com/2008/11/democrats-eye-confiscati..."House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute. ["Redircting"...that sounds a lot like redistributing, as in 'redistributing wealth,' - or at least "redistributing" a significant tax break for the Middle Class. - Drake]"

The progressives need our 401k's to give to the progressive elite and to ensure that the people become enslaved to the government.

So when you hear a progressive claim he/she has your best interest in mind, you can tell him/her that they are full of crap.

The progressives and obama are seeking to confiscate individual retirement accounts.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/4/8/3/5/9/1/ffffff-40636702587.jpeg[IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]


Mrs. Satan? Thats your source? lol


Give it up, Werhwolfen. Factcheck.org exposed the lie....

[url=http://www.factcheck.org/2012/12/no-government-401k-takeover/]No Government 401(k) Takeover[/url]​
 
from what i know of this, twice during Obama's presidency this issue has come up in the news.

i have not heard of it since in a long time.

from what i know the idea was for the government not to take away your 401k's, but for the government to take the money from the 401k's investments..... and reinvest it into government securities......or debt!

thus handing the government billions of dollars
 
Mrs. Satan? Thats your source? lol


Give it up, Werhwolfen. Factcheck.org exposed the lie....

No Government 401(k) Takeover

FactCheck.org is a "nonprofit", [2] website that describes itself as a non-partisan[3] "'consumer advocate' for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics".[4] It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.[4]

FactCheck.org - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you claim that the known Left Liberal Annenberg funded FactCheck.org is the epitome of truth? Give me a break. The next thing you'll tell us is that George Soros is really a conservative.
 
FactCheck.org is a "nonprofit", [2] website that describes itself as a non-partisan[3] "'consumer advocate' for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics".[4] It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.[4]

FactCheck.org - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you claim that the known Left Liberal Annenberg funded FactCheck.org is the epitome of truth? Give me a break. The next thing you'll tell us is that George Soros is really a conservative.


The Annenberg's are not Left leaning Liberals. lol Just because Factcheck.org debunked the birthers doesn't make them left leaning...it's just makes them honest. Leonore Anneberg contributed to McCain's campaign and endorsed him. Her husband Walter Anneberg worked for Nixon and Reagan and introduced Reagan to Thatcher.

Compared to some of the sources you cite...yeah I can see why you'd think the Annebergs were left leaning. But the fact is the right wing have swung so far too the right they make Reagan look like a left wing extremist.

The right wing doesn't even try to be honest anymore....and you've provided more than enough evidence to prove that.
 
Last edited:
The Annenberg's are not Left leaning Liberals. lol Just because Factcheck.org debunked the birthers doesn't make them left leaning...it's just makes them honest. Leonore Anneberg contributed to McCain's campaign and endorsed him. Her husband Walter Anneberg worked for Nixon and Reagan and introduced Reagan to Thatcher.

Compared to some of the sources you cite...yeah I can see why you'd think the Annebergs were left leaning. But the fact is the right wing have swung so far too the right they make Reagan look like a left wing extremist.

The right wing doesn't even try to be honest anymore....and you've provided more than enough evidence to prove that.

Therefore obfuscating the primary subject of the original post by your parsing the issue through Factcheck.org, the Annenbergs and George Soros, does little to change the words of John Adams and looming financial problems incurred by the administration and their willingness
to destroy the middleclass. Obviously you like Obama believe in redistribution of the wealthy to include the middleclass savings. Thus making all of America except the Elitist Progressives lackeys rich and in power similar to the failed USSR.
 
Obama Begins Push to Confiscate IRA’s & 401k’s

Yet none of the world's largest asset management corporations, including many that President Obama "bailed out" of the financial crisis and failed to prosecute, are up in arms about this.

Of course they only, collectively, spend billions of dollars a year lobbying the government, contributing to Democrat campaigns, and have numerous senior executive insiders bouncing between public service and private industry.

So yeah, I can see where some fly-by-night ultraconservative Internet rag blogger would have better information than they do.
 
Yet none of the world's largest asset management corporations, including many that President Obama "bailed out" of the financial crisis and failed to prosecute, are up in arms about this.

Of course they only, collectively, spend billions of dollars a year lobbying the government, contributing to Democrat campaigns, and have numerous senior executive insiders bouncing between public service and private industry.

So yeah, I can see where some fly-by-night ultraconservative Internet rag blogger would have better information than they do.

TARP funds to financial institutions under Bush fully paid back with a $22.7 Billion profit. GM bailout cost investors billions in lost investments, while turning GM virtually over to the unions.
 
TARP funds to financial institutions under Bush fully paid back with a $22.7 Billion profit. GM bailout cost investors billions in lost investments, while turning GM virtually over to the unions.

Which is apropos of nothing I said, nor is it relevant to any of the claims you're making in this thread related to nationalization of private tax-deferred retirment programs.

Yeah, I get that the gov bailed out some banks and a handful of other corps.

That doesn't change anything.

The money managers I'm talking about, the ones that actually manage tens of trillions of dollars in retirement assets, the ones that not only didn't need to take TARP money but additionally served as custodians for the TARP banks during the crisis, don't seem to be concerned that President Obama is (allegedly) single-handedly trying to nationalize 401(k)s.

And since these companies (PIMCO, State Street, Prudential, BlackRock, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc...) make multiple billions of dollars (each) every year off of managing and investing public and private DC and DB retirement plan monies I'd kinda expect them to be in a bit of a huff if they suspected that the government was going to kill their cash cow and feed the procedes into U.S. treasuries.

So the folks that stand to lose billions of dollars, collectively hundreds of billions of doallrs, in profit if this plan to nationalize 401(k)s takes off don't seem to be too concerned.

But Wehrwolfen, some anonymous guy from the Internet who gets all his news from far-right-wing-lunatic-fringe blogs says there's a problem, so there must be a problem?

You've got to be kidding me dude.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you're just gullible enough to be the one guy who actually does believe everything he reads on the Internet.
 
Back
Top Bottom