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The wind power hoax

sawyerloggingon

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing and the thousands of wind mills littering the hills were not turning. Just a fluke I thought but yesterday I drove back up the gorge and once again those things were barely moving at all. This just shows that the wind power fad is not a reliable source of energy and will never be more than a supplement for fossil fuel and hydro power that incidentally was going great guns on the Columbia wind or not. Good part is that no hawks and eagles were getting sliced and diced those days I drove through though.:lol: I took a pic of the not turning blades but I can't find my damn cord to hook the cam up to my puter. I'll keep looking, it's here somewhere.:)
 

TheNextEra

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing and the thousands of wind mills littering the hills were not turning. Just a fluke I thought but yesterday I drove back up the gorge and once again those things were barely moving at all. This just shows that the wind power fad is not a reliable source of energy and will never be more than a supplement for fossil fuel and hydro power that incidentally was going great guns on the Columbia wind or not. Good part is that no hawks and eagles were getting sliced and diced those days I drove through though.:lol: I took a pic of the not turning blades but I can't find my damn cord to hook the cam up to my puter. I'll keep looking, it's here somewhere.:)
What you saw doesn't mean that wind power is a fluke, it means their placement was ****ty maybe due to not enough research on the area possibly. There are many places where the wind is constant at times during the day. It's not a lousy technology, however, I will agree it is only a SUPPLIMENTAL source of energy.
 

sawyerloggingon

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What you saw doesn't mean that wind power is a fluke, it means their placement was ****ty maybe due to not enough research on the area possibly. There are many places where the wind is constant at times during the day. It's not a lousy technology, however, I will agree it is only a SUPPLIMENTAL source of energy.
Sounds like we agree.
 

Threegoofs

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What you saw doesn't mean that wind power is a fluke, it means their placement was ****ty maybe due to not enough research on the area possibly. There are many places where the wind is constant at times during the day. It's not a lousy technology, however, I will agree it is only a SUPPLIMENTAL source of energy.
No. What he saw were two anecdotal reports (and thats from an unreliable source who thinks that if he takes a photo of a wind generator it will prove the blades arent moving, because it would look somehow different from a photo where they are moving) on a single wind farm.

Looks to me that one of the wind farms in the gorge will produce 450 mW of electricity. That isnt too shabby
 

Helix

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odd. there's a wind farm outside my town, and i very rarely see it not moving. maybe it's more windy here, but i've seen them going on days where you certainly couldn't fly a kite.
 

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing and the thousands of wind mills littering the hills were not turning. Just a fluke I thought but yesterday I drove back up the gorge and once again those things were barely moving at all. This just shows that the wind power fad is not a reliable source of energy and will never be more than a supplement for fossil fuel and hydro power that incidentally was going great guns on the Columbia wind or not. Good part is that no hawks and eagles were getting sliced and diced those days I drove through though.:lol: I took a pic of the not turning blades but I can't find my damn cord to hook the cam up to my puter. I'll keep looking, it's here somewhere.:)
So they werent moving for two days and that's suddenly proof that wind power is a hoax? You have no idea why they weren't moving either, just that they weren't?

What if you drove pass a coal planet two days in a row and noticed it wasn't operating and again you don't know why its not operating. Would you automatically assume that coal is a hoax power source as well?

What if that wind farm, like the hypothetical coal plant, was just down for maintenance? Or numerous other reasons?

I don't think I've ever seen someone present so little information to support a conculsion before. You must live in a very exciting world, where two days of observation lead you to such radical conculsions, do you think that when winter comes around it will never be warm again? Or that if the waves aren't high for a few days that the rules of gravity have somehow changes and the moon is no longer affecting tides as much? Or when it rains two days in a row that we are bound for another Biblical flood?
 

Verax

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing and the thousands of wind mills littering the hills were not turning. Just a fluke I thought but yesterday I drove back up the gorge and once again those things were barely moving at all. This just shows that the wind power fad is not a reliable source of energy and will never be more than a supplement for fossil fuel and hydro power that incidentally was going great guns on the Columbia wind or not. Good part is that no hawks and eagles were getting sliced and diced those days I drove through though.:lol: I took a pic of the not turning blades but I can't find my damn cord to hook the cam up to my puter. I'll keep looking, it's here somewhere.:)
The reason they're not moving is because you took a picture. What you want to do is switch the mode to video so that you can document the not turning of the blades for future study.

EDIT: Crap I missed what you said ThreeGoofs, I was too excited to make fun of the wind scientist.
 
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sawyerloggingon

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So they werent moving for two days and that's suddenly proof that wind power is a hoax? You have no idea why they weren't moving either, just that they weren't?

What if you drove pass a coal planet two days in a row and noticed it wasn't operating and again you don't know why its not operating. Would you automatically assume that coal is a hoax power source as well?

What if that wind farm, like the hypothetical coal plant, was just down for maintenance? Or numerous other reasons?

I don't think I've ever seen someone present so little information to support a conculsion before. You must live in a very exciting world, where two days of observation lead you to such radical conculsions, do you think that when winter comes around it will never be warm again? Or that if the waves aren't high for a few days that the rules of gravity have somehow changes and the moon is no longer affecting tides as much? Or when it rains two days in a row that we are bound for another Biblical flood?
You miss my point entirely. They were not moving because the wind was not blowing in a place known to be the most steady wind in America. That stretch of the Columbia is known as the wind surfing capital of the world for a reason. Wind power even there is not reliable and has to have good old fashioned fossil fuel or dam backup power no matter how many wind mills you put up.
 

sawyerloggingon

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The reason they're not moving is because you took a picture. What you want to do is switch the mode to video so that you can document the not turning of the blades for future study.

EDIT: Crap I missed what you said ThreeGoofs, I was too excited to make fun of the wind scientist.
My pic didn't come out anyway, crap.
 

sawyerloggingon

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odd. there's a wind farm outside my town, and i very rarely see it not moving. maybe it's more windy here, but i've seen them going on days where you certainly couldn't fly a kite.
Going how fast, that's the question. If they are barely moving they are barely making any power and if the wind blows too hard they have to be shut down so they are no good at both ends of the wind spectrum.
 

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You miss my point entirely. They were not moving because the wind was not blowing in a place known to be the most steady wind in America. That stretch of the Columbia is known as the wind surfing capital of the world for a reason. Wind power even there is not reliable and has to have good old fashioned fossil fuel or dam backup power no matter how many wind mills you put up.
Have to disagree. America's heartland was run for centuries on wind power. First mechanical power and then electricity. Wasn't until the feds created the REA in 1935 that power was centralized and wind abandoned (by contract, the REA would wire out to your home/farm if you agreed to never use wind power again).

The wind power here in Oregon supplies 10% of our total electricity usage. However, you are correct, there is a problem in balance. Hydro power is the only green generation tech that doesn't have this problem (I do not count nuclear as green). The real issue isn't wind generation, but transmission and storage, primarily storage. We're still in the stone age storage wise.
 

sawyerloggingon

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Have to disagree. America's heartland was run for centuries on wind power. First mechanical power and then electricity. Wasn't until the feds created the REA in 1935 that power was centralized and wind abandoned (by contract, the REA would wire out to your home/farm if you agreed to never use wind power again).

The wind power here in Oregon supplies 10% of our total electricity usage. However, you are correct, there is a problem in balance. Hydro power is the only green generation tech that doesn't have this problem (I do not count nuclear as green). The real issue isn't wind generation, but transmission and storage, primarily storage. We're still in the stone age storage wise.
Honestly I can't believe there could ever be a storage system that could run a city a day or two if the wind didn't blow and the sun didn't shine. This also supposes you have so many wind mills and solar panels that you make an excess of power on good days so large that on bad days you have that much power stored. IMO the storage technology required is not in our reach in the foreseeable future.
 

Wiseone

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You miss my point entirely. They were not moving because the wind was not blowing in a place known to be the most steady wind in America. That stretch of the Columbia is known as the wind surfing capital of the world for a reason. Wind power even there is not reliable and has to have good old fashioned fossil fuel or dam backup power no matter how many wind mills you put up.
I think that the investors of this wind farm understood that on certain days the wind may just not blow at all, and factored it into their decisions.

You act as if you're the first person to realize that sometimes the wind doesn't blow.
 

Visbek

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing....
Well, that obviously settles it. 20 minutes of observation is clearly enough to show that wind power doesn't work at all. :roll:

No, wait, it isn't. Biglow produces an average of 150 megawatts, with a peak generation of 450MW.

Pretty much anyone involved in sustainable energy realizes that wind alone is not going to provide all the power the US needs. The idea is to utilize a variety of sustainable resources.

Oh wait, I forgot. This isn't about facts, it's about rhetoric. Never mind....
 

sawyerloggingon

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I think that the investors of this wind farm understood that on certain days the wind may just not blow at all, and factored it into their decisions.

You act as if you're the first person to realize that sometimes the wind doesn't blow.
What factored in was gov subsidies. nobody would invest in this crap without them.
 

sawyerloggingon

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Well, that obviously settles it. 20 minutes of observation is clearly enough to show that wind power doesn't work at all. :roll:

No, wait, it isn't. Biglow produces an average of 150 megawatts, with a peak generation of 450MW.

Pretty much anyone involved in sustainable energy realizes that wind alone is not going to provide all the power the US needs. The idea is to utilize a variety of sustainable resources.

Oh wait, I forgot. This isn't about facts, it's about rhetoric. Never mind....
So you admit that not one dam will be torn down and not one fossil fuel plant will go away because of wind powers sporadic production. It is not reliable and will never be anything more than chic power. Something to marvel over as you sip your double whammy latte from Starbucks.
 

sawyerloggingon

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And here's some more facts to think about. The cost of a windmill is in the millions. How long until a 3 mill wind mill pays for itself? The answer is..... NEVER! Without gov subsidies nobody would put these monstrosities up.

"Most of the commercial-scale turbines installed today are 2 MW in size and cost roughly $3-$4 million installed. Wind turbines have significant economies of scale. Smaller farm or residential scale turbines cost less overall, but are more expensive per kilowatt of energy producing capacity. Wind turbines under 100 kilowatts cost roughly $3,000 to $8,000 per kilowatt of capacity. A 10 kilowatt machine (the size needed to power a large home) might have an installed cost of $50,000-$80,000 (or more) depending on the tower type, height, and the cost of installation. Oftentimes there are tax and other incentives that can dramatically reduce the cost of a wind project.

How much do wind turbines cost? | Windustry
 

VanceMack

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Wind power isnt a 'hoax. Saying so...thats just goofy. Whether or not it is some climate altering,planet healing panacea...that is certainly questionable but then, I dont think it was ever suggested that it was the end all beat all answer to lifes problems. If it can reliably produce power and reduce fossil fuel demands and pollutants it is absolutely worthy of exploring more. We have several farms out here that exist on wind towers and natural gas. Where wind and solar can be adequately used it should be. How is that even in doubt?
 

Aunt Spiker

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Couple of weeks ago I drove down the Columbia river gorge which is known for having the most reliable wind in the US. Well the wind wasn't blowing and the thousands of wind mills littering the hills were not turning. Just a fluke I thought but yesterday I drove back up the gorge and once again those things were barely moving at all. This just shows that the wind power fad is not a reliable source of energy and will never be more than a supplement for fossil fuel and hydro power that incidentally was going great guns on the Columbia wind or not. Good part is that no hawks and eagles were getting sliced and diced those days I drove through though.:lol: I took a pic of the not turning blades but I can't find my damn cord to hook the cam up to my puter. I'll keep looking, it's here somewhere.:)
You miss my point entirely. They were not moving because the wind was not blowing in a place known to be the most steady wind in America. That stretch of the Columbia is known as the wind surfing capital of the world for a reason. Wind power even there is not reliable and has to have good old fashioned fossil fuel or dam backup power no matter how many wind mills you put up.
Very good - you're so smart, so observant.

Without wind: wind turbines do not spin, and thus, do not produce electricity. The wind powers the turbine, thus creating the electro spark needed to generate energy.

Now, go back on a windy day, and observe how they do spin when the wind blows.

You're so observant, it's as if you went on a field trip and witnessed science in action. It's the 4th grade all over again.

What you've also learned is that the wind does not blow in any one particular part of the earth twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and three-hundred sixty-five days a year.

Congratulations, you're now as smart as a 2nd grader: Wind doesn't blow all the time, and without wind there is nothing to power a wind turbine.
 

sawyerloggingon

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Very good - you're so smart, so observant.

Without wind: wind turbines do not spin, and thus, do not produce electricity. The wind powers the turbine, thus creating the electro spark needed to generate energy.

Now, go back on a windy day, and observe how they do spin when the wind blows.

You're so observant, it's as if you went on a field trip and witnessed science in action. It's the 4th grade all over again.

What you've also learned is that the wind does not blow in any one particular part of the earth twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and three-hundred sixty-five days a year.

Congratulations, you're now as smart as a 2nd grader: Wind doesn't blow all the time, and without wind there is nothing to power a wind turbine.
And what is even smarter is thinking these things can replace fossil fuel plants. :roll: Only a 2nd grader to use your words would think that.
 

Aunt Spiker

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And what is even smarter is thinking these things can replace fossil fuel plants. :roll: Only a 2nd grader to use your words would think that.
They're not replacing fossil fuel plants globally, they're used to diversify energy sources. The desire and goal isn't to stop using fossil fuels entirely and switch solely to wind. They're placed to simply provide an alternative where it's applicable - just as nuclear power and hydropower are used. Neither burn fossil fuels, and none are planned to become our only source of energy.
 

Paschendale

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What is it with you and trying to make everything into a hoax? What possible reason would anyone have to perpetuate a scam like that? How could anyone keep it a secret? If wind farms aren't producing power for all the people they're supposed to be powering, who is producing it, and why are they apparently doing it for free?

This is one of the more absurd things I've heard from you lately, Sawyer.
 
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