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The Welfare Trap -- 21st Century Slavery

MaggieD

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I am convinced that our government somewhat intentionally warehouses our poor and disadvantaged....shelves them by giving them just enough public assistance to get by. And no real help to get out.

Teenaged girls are incentivized to be a baby's momma in their teens to get their welfare checks -- which our government is very happy to hand out. Their families are destroyed because they don't want to get married....it'll effect their payday. The males are left without a family structure, goals and ambitions.

Job opportunities in these blighted neighborhoods are nonexistent. National food chains? They don't even open stores in these neighborhoods. Some have to drive 10-15 miles to get a "real grocery store."

Chicago's City Council, finally, after 5 years or so, "approved" opening a WalMart in such a neighborhood that would provide 400 jobs. It took YEARS as the City Council demanded an $8.75/hour wage instead of the State's minimum of $8.25. Those people just wanted JOBS and place to SHOP.

Their schools are a shambles with cops patrolling the hallways, metal detectors at the doors. Gangs in complete control. Their test scores are abysmal -- and still we don't solve THAT problem.

Their neighborhoods are war zones that police say they cannot control -- with the only male role models being drug dealers and pimps.

The average Black American male's lifespan is 69.8 years compared to a White American male's 75.7. Black women have a lifespan of 76.5 years, so it isn't in "their genes," as much as it is their lifestyle. Stay in "the projects," dead by 25.

I'm beginning to think that public assistance, the way it is constructed, is promoting slavery -- the poor just don't get it.

What do you think?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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The whole system of social welfare, for low income people, isn't designed that way but some of it is.
It started like this from the creation of compulsory education.
This isn't conspiracy theory but historical fact.
It was formed, to let the cream rise to the top, so to speak.

I wouldn't characterize it as slavery either, but more of a means of pacification.
To reduce crime and social unrest.
 
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CriticalThought

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Teenaged girls are incentivized to be a baby's momma in their teens to get their welfare checks...
Just out of curiosity, how many teenage girls out there do you believe are thinking, "I sure do wanna get pregnant so I can get those sweet welfare checks."?

I'm just curious whether you want to reword that statement.

I'm beginning to think that public assistance, the way it is constructed, is promoting slavery -- the poor just don't get it.
How would you structure public assisstance?

It is easy to criticize, but no system is perfect. In what way could this system be made into a less imperfect system? If you can't answer that question then you really have no grounds to judge.
 

MaggieD

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The whole system of social welfare, for low income people, isn't designed that way but some of it is.
It started like this from the creation of compulsory education.
This is conspiracy theory but historical fact.
It was formed, to let the cream rise to the top, so to speak.

I wouldn't characterize it as slavery either, but more of a means of pacification.To reduce crime and social unrest.
Oh, I really like that characterization, Harry. Brilliant!

Just out of curiosity, how many teenage girls out there do you believe are thinking, "I sure do wanna get pregnant so I can get those sweet welfare checks."? I'm just curious whether you want to reword that statement. How would you structure public assisstance? It is easy to criticize, but no system is perfect. In what way could this system be made into a less imperfect system? If you can't answer that question then you really have no grounds to judge.
How can someone named "Critical Thought" say I have no grounds to judge? Ha! Anyway, I have family (two people) who teach in inner-city Chicago public schools. Both of them say that the "job objective" of far too many young girls is to get pregnant and have a baby to get a check.

A less imperfect system wouldn't have indefinite public assistance for healthy bodies. It would provide daycare assistance for their children and, in order to collect their checks, these women would be required to "show up" for schooling or volunteer work of some sort that would keep them busy and working toward improving their lot in life. No more free lunches ad infinitum.

Do you realize that these welfare moms have what every working gal would cherish? The opportunity to stay at home with their kids? There's something wrong there, I think.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Oh, I really like that characterization, Harry. Brilliant!
I think the "creators" realized that no matter how much opportunity, you offer to people, that some will always not, try to achieve and that it's better to keep them "paid" on the side lines while everyone else goes about their normal life.

I don't agree with it, but that's what it is. :?
 

MaggieD

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I think the "creators" realized that no matter how much opportunity, you offer to people, that some will always not, try to achieve and that it's better to keep them "paid" on the side lines while everyone else goes about their normal life.

I don't agree with it, but that's what it is. :?
Harry, honestly, you've given me a paradigm shift of the nth degree. Of course!! That's the only thing that makes sense. The unspoken motive for all of it. Wow....
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Harry, honestly, you've given me a paradigm shift of the nth degree. Of course!! That's the only thing that makes sense. The unspoken motive for all of it. Wow....
There's a book by John Taylor Gatto, about the creation of the modern school system.
It describes it as similar in design, where it was really started to pacify and nationalize the hearts and minds of people.

Basically though, a lot of welfare programs aim to do this.
 
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Badfish420

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I disagree, whatever "welfare" (grouping most social and finnancial aid organizations into this) was designed to do whether it be national pride or to help the less fortunate, it works, not as well as it should, but it is an important institution and essential to any modern day society
 

TurtleDude

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I disagree, whatever "welfare" (grouping most social and finnancial aid organizations into this) was designed to do whether it be national pride or to help the less fortunate, it works, not as well as it should, but it is an important institution and essential to any modern day society
the intent was to create a permanent dependent class that has to vote for those who fund their entitlements
 

Badfish420

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the intent was to create a permanent dependent class that has to vote for those who fund their entitlements
but most people on "welfare" dont vote anyway so i guess the conspiracy was a failure...
 

American

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the intent was to create a permanent dependent class that has to vote for those who fund their entitlements
Right on, politicians on the left don't do things for people unless there's power to be had.
 

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but most people on "welfare" dont vote anyway so i guess the conspiracy was a failure...
So the only black vote comes from the middle and upper class? The math does match the effort to gain their vote.
 

MaggieD

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I disagree, whatever "welfare" (grouping most social and finnancial aid organizations into this) was designed to do whether it be national pride or to help the less fortunate, it works, not as well as it should, but it is an important institution and essential to any modern day society
If welfare is designed to keep poor families poor, then I agree with you. I just don't see it as a "hand up."

the intent was to create a permanent dependent class that has to vote for those who fund their entitlements
I wonder which side claims victory? That also makes good sense.

but most people on "welfare" dont vote anyway so i guess the conspiracy was a failure...
Really? I wonder how we know that. Voter registration, maybe. Got a link? Or just conjecture?
 

Badfish420

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its kind of common knowledge that poor people generally dont vote. (for the pro welfare party anyway)
 

TurtleDude

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but most people on "welfare" dont vote anyway so i guess the conspiracy was a failure...
enough do and there is an entire cottage industry of people who cater to, pander to, or justify what they do on the welfare class.
 

CriticalThought

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Oh, I really like that characterization, Harry. Brilliant!



How can someone named "Critical Thought" say I have no grounds to judge? Ha! Anyway, I have family (two people) who teach in inner-city Chicago public schools. Both of them say that the "job objective" of far too many young girls is to get pregnant and have a baby to get a check.

A less imperfect system wouldn't have indefinite public assistance for healthy bodies. It would provide daycare assistance for their children and, in order to collect their checks, these women would be required to "show up" for schooling or volunteer work of some sort that would keep them busy and working toward improving their lot in life. No more free lunches ad infinitum.

Do you realize that these welfare moms have what every working gal would cherish? The opportunity to stay at home with their kids? There's something wrong there, I think.
Are you aware that there is a 60 month maximum on TANF? In your entire life, you could only receive up to 5 years of assistance. Furthermore, while on aid you are required to be looking for employment or schooling, and once you are employed or in school, your assistance stops.

I find it funny that you try to describe our system, but seem not to know how it actually works.

I say that because you make it sound like we have a national program. We have a block grant system for welfare. That means each state receives money from the Federal Government for welfare in the form of a grant and then each state drafts its own welfare program and distributes the aid. That means each state has its own welfare program and requirements. 50 states means 50 different welfare programs. You have a problem with Chicago, then that means you have a problem with the welfare program in Illinois, not in my state or anyone else's state for that matter.
 
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MaggieD

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Are you aware that there is a 60 month maximum on TANF? In your entire life, you could only receive up to 5 years of assistance. Furthermore, while on aid you are required to be looking for employment or schooling, and once you are employed or in school, your assistance stops.

I find it funny that you describe our system, but seem not to konw how it actually works.
Are you saying that the CHILDREN, if their moms use up their five years, are just simply are out of luck? Homeless? Starving? Why don't I think that's true?

Do they have to look for employment the same way people receiving unemployment compensation have to look for employment? I don't have too much faith in that.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Are you saying that the CHILDREN, if their moms use up their five years, are just simply are out of luck? Homeless? Starving? Why don't I think that's true?

Do they have to look for employment the same way people receiving unemployment compensation have to look for employment? I don't have too much faith in that.
TANF has a limit, but TANF is the classic form of welfare(government checks), that was changed, if you include housing assistance, food stamps etc. those things can last for life.
 

CriticalThought

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Are you saying that the CHILDREN, if their moms use up their five years, are just simply are out of luck? Homeless? Starving? Why don't I think that's true?
You use up your TANF then that means you are no longer getting assistance from the government. That is how it works. People who can no longer recieve benefits from the government tend to either need to work, get money from private charities, or rely on their family. There are extensive studies done on how families that are living outside of TANF are able to survive.

Do they have to look for employment the same way people receiving unemployment compensation have to look for employment? I don't have too much faith in that.
I don't know how Illnois works. I'm not sure how they enforce their requirements. Just out of curiosity, do you have any knowledge at all of TANF? To repeat what I said above...

We have a block grant system for welfare. That means each state receives money from the Federal Government for welfare in the form of a grant and then each state drafts its own welfare program and distributes the aid. That means each state has its own welfare program and requirements. 50 states means 50 different welfare programs. You have a problem with Chicago, then that means you have a problem with the welfare program in Illinois, not in my state or anyone else's state for that matter.
 

MaggieD

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Are you aware that there is a 60 month maximum on TANF? In your entire life, you could only receive up to 5 years of assistance. Furthermore, while on aid you are required to be looking for employment or schooling, and once you are employed or in school, your assistance stops.

I find it funny that you try to describe our system, but seem not to know how it actually works.

I say that because you make it sound like we have a national program. We have a block grant system for welfare. That means each state receives money from the Federal Government for welfare in the form of a grant and then each state drafts its own welfare program and distributes the aid. That means each state has its own welfare program and requirements. 50 states means 50 different welfare programs. You have a problem with Chicago, then that means you have a problem with the welfare program in Illinois, not in my state or anyone else's state for that matter.
I responded before I read your edit (last paragraph). I didn't know that. This is the second subject that I've found Illinois is on the bottom rung of, what should I call it? Uhhh, crappy use of tax money. Ha! The first one is teachers' salaries. I had assumed that the entire United States had the same astronomical salaries/pension benefits/buyout options that Illinois teachers enjoy. I found I made a classic wrong assumption there, as well. Thank you.

Just to comment on Harry's post, yes, there are many other entitlements that last much longer than TANF in Illinois. (Now I have to qualify that.) I don't think you'd disagree that SS Disability is a way that TANF benefits go on forever. That's the same song, different tune.
 
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CriticalThought

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TANF has a limit, but TANF is the classic form of welfare(government checks), that was changed, if you include housing assistance, food stamps etc. those things can last for life.
Food stamps = up to $133.12 per person a month. Do you calculate how much you spend on groceries each month? You have to be eating pretty fickle to get by on that amount.

Housing assistance = individuals or families with a voucher find and lease a unit (either in a specified complex or in the private sector) and pay a portion of the rent (based on income, but generally no more than 30% (40% being the maximum at time of lease-up) of the family's income.

There is your lifetime of benefits. You get enough in food stamps to get by and you get the best place that you can afford 30% of the rent on.

Has anyone here who has formed an opinion on the welfare system actually taken the time to educate themselves on how the system actually works?
 
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Harry Guerrilla

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Food stamps = up to $133.12 per person a month. Do you calculate how much you spend on groceries each month? You have to be eating pretty fickle to get by on that amount.
Uhh yep, I spend less than that per person, per month.

Housing assistance = individuals or families with a voucher find and lease a unit (either in a specified complex or in the private sector) and pay a portion of the rent (based on income, but generally no more than 30% (40% being the maximum at time of lease-up) of the family's income.
I'm familiar with these programs, I also know that local government subsidized units exist, that are far below market price.
Where I live they go for about $300 a month.

There is your lifetime of benefits. You get enough in food stamps to get by and you get the best place that you can afford 30% of the rent on.

Has anyone here who has formed an opinion on the welfare system actually taken the time to educate themselves on how the system actually works?
I do have a very well informed opinion on these programs.
I qualify for food stamps, but don't use it because I don't need it.

I'm also very much aware how traditional monthly cash payment welfare, has shifted to refundable tax credits, in the top ranges of around $8000 a year.
 

CriticalThought

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I don't think you'd disagree that SS Disability is a way that TANF benefits go on forever.
To qualify for Disability you have to...

-have a physical or mental condition that prevents you from engaging in any "substantial gainful activity" ("SGA"), and
-the condition is expected to last at least 12 months or result in death, and
-be under the age of 65, and
-generally, have worked 5 out of the last 10 years as of the determined date of onset of disability

I have an aunt with severe Lupus who was kicked off disability because she couldn't meet the SGA. It nearly drove her family into bankrupcy until fortunately they found a medication that helped. She works harder than anyone else in my family and always has, but that system was useless for her, someone who geniunely needed it.
 

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Uhh yep, I spend less than that per person, per month.
Seriously? Where do you live? I bargain shop and I can't keep my food budget under $150 a month.

I'm familiar with these programs, I also know that local government subsidized units exist, that are far below market price.
Where I live they go for about $300 a month.
Local government assitance eh? The only reason I could imagine a local government would foot the bill for somethng like that was if there was a real need for it. Local governments tend to be awfully onery about how they spend their money because they are more accountable.

I do have a very well informed opinion on these programs.
I qualify for food stamps, but don't use it because I don't need it.
Good for you. So do I.

I'm also very much aware how traditional monthly cash payment welfare, has shifted to refundable tax credits, in the top ranges of around $8000 a year.
I'm not familiar with that statistic. I would have to see how you derived that figure to know how credible it is.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Seriously? Where do you live? I bargain shop and I can't keep my food budget under $150 a month.
Well I have 4 people but It's generally $400 or less for all of us a month.
Georgia.

Local government assitance eh? The only reason I could imagine a local government would foot the bill for somethng like that was if there was a real need for it. Local governments tend to be awfully onery about how they spend their money because they are more accountable.
Ehh sometimes yes, sometimes no.

A lot of the people who stay in them are "supposedly" poor, elderly (understandable), have a disability (sometimes a bs disability).
I've visited these places several times, seen the inside of a few and I personally wouldn't call them poor or disabled, in the traditional sense.

I'm not familiar with that statistic. I would have to see how you derived that figure to know how credible it is.
Earned Income Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit and couple more, can't remember them all off the top of my head.
The IRS payment tables are listed on the internet.
 
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