The Washington Post As war enters bloody new phase, Ukraine again calls for more weapons

[Eatomus]

We don't have to defeat their ambitions, they are incapable of achieving them. Why is it worth it? Can anyone explain why Ukraine is relevant to the US interests?

You keep speaking of Russia as if they do not have a full partner in their murderous genocidal European takeover plans.
You are falling behind.
Once Putin calls upon his partner China what genocidal services will the Communist mass murderer be prepared to fulfil do you think ?
You do realize that China is already providing military supplies and advisors to Russia in this genocide don't you ?
I guess we need to be twice as careful not to make either one these murderous dictators angry or they could escalate things ?
Best just to hide in the basement.

 

[bave]

You keep speaking of Russia as if they do not have a full partner in their murderous genocidal European takeover plans.
You are falling behind.
Once Putin calls upon his partner China what genocidal services will the Communist mass murderer be prepared to fulfil do you think ?
You do realize that China is already providing military supplies and advisors to Russia in this genocide don't you ?
I guess we need to be twice as careful not to make either one these murderous dictators angry or they could escalate things ?
Best just to hide in the basement.]

You think China is deploying combat personnel to Europe to participate? Yea, ok, take it down a notch tiger.

Also, this isn't a genocide, not by any definition. You are being dramatic and it is causing you to lose objectivity.

 

[Felis Leo]

I did hear that if Putin massacres more civilians the GOP and Fox News are prepared to respond with the harshest possible criticisms of Hunter Biden.

That was funny.

 

[Eatomus]

You think China is deploying combat personnel to Europe to participate? Yea, ok, take it down a notch tiger.

Also, this isn't a genocide, not by any definition. You are being dramatic and it is causing you to lose objectivity.

Brush up on the King's English for a minute.
I said " SUPPLIES" and "ADVISORS"
Why do you find it odd th

 

[bave]

Brush up on the King's English for a minute.
I said " SUPPLIES" and "ADVISORS"
Why do you find it odd th

You think Russia wants Chinese advisors? China hasn't fought a war since they got beat up by 'Nam almost 50 years ago. They have nothing to add of tactical expertise. Supplies don't seem to be the problem nearly as much as getting them to the front. Russia needs a variety of things to actually make this a viable offensive war again, none of those things are coming from China.

 

[Eatomus]

You think Russia wants Chinese advisors? China hasn't fought a war since they got beat up by 'Nam almost 50 years ago. They have nothing to add of tactical expertise. Supplies don't seem to be the problem nearly as much as getting them to the front. Russia needs a variety of things to actually make this a viable offensive war again, none of those things are coming from China.

Yeah , China & sworn partner Russia providing mutual coordination, and help to each other , that would never happen.
DUH!
What was I thinking ?

 

[bave]

Yeah , China & sworn partner Russia providing mutual coordination, and help to each other , that would never happen.
DUH!
What was I thinking ?

Again, where is the tactical value? I don't see Chinese troops in Ukraine. I don't see Chinese aircraft providing support roles. I don't see Russia seeking/wanting/needing any advice/guidance from China. A press picture does not make a military alliance.

 

[Eatomus]

Again, where is the tactical value? I don't see Chinese troops in Ukraine. I don't see Chinese aircraft providing support roles. I don't see Russia seeking/wanting/needing any advice/guidance from China. A press picture does not make a military alliance.

To late High Speed ,
The needed assistance , guidance, advice & coordination between Russia and sworn mass murdering partner China began before the first Russian crossed the border into Ukraine .
Their coordinated efforts in the invasion took place awhile ago in fact.
Why do you find cooperation between sworn partners in world domination so unbelievable ?
Very Odd on your part .

China asked Russia to delay Ukraine invasion until after Winter Olympics, say US officials​

You are showing yourself to be increasingly slow on the uptake as this thread progresses

 

[bave]

To late High Speed ,

You are emotionally compromised and not making reasonable arguments, conclusions, and just repeating yourself.

Take a break and a breath.

 

[Sweden]

Same as always. That would be an act of war. Are you ok with the US going to war with Russia?

No it would not "be an act of war". In WWII the USA sold weapons to Britain for over two years before it was at war.

 

[Eatomus]

You are emotionally compromised and not making reasonable arguments, conclusions, and just repeating yourself.

Take a break and a breath.

You are woefully uninformed as to the cooperation that has already occurred \between Russia and it's sworn partner in genocide China , and continues to occur :

"You think Russia wants Chinese advisors? China hasn't fought a war since they got beat up by 'Nam almost 50 years ago" ( bave )

When in fact the very date of the invasion was strategically coordinated between China & Russia .

"China asked Russia to delay Ukraine invasion until after Winter Olympics, say US officials"​

A fact you proved yourself oblivious too, and are now strategically avoiding.

You must work for U.S. intelligence ?

 

[Lycanthrope]

From Reuters, March 10:

U.S. will supply Ukraine with 'the weapons it needs' against Russia

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The United States is committed to providing Ukraine with “the weapons it needs” to defend itself against Russia, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Sunday as Ukraine seeks more military aid from the West. Sullivan said the Biden administration will send...

news.yahoo.com

The United States is committed to providing Ukraine with “the weapons it needs” to defend itself against Russia, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Sunday as Ukraine seeks more military aid from the West.

Sullivan said the Biden administration will send more weapons to Ukraine to prevent Russia from seizing more territory and targeting civilians, attacks that Washington has labeled war crimes.

Speaking later on NBC News’ “Meet the Press", Sullivan said the United States was “working around the clock to deliver our own weapons . . . and organizing and coordinating the delivery of weapons from many other countries.”

The United States has sent $1.7 billion in military assistance to Ukraine since Russia launched its invasion on Feb. 24, the White House said last week.

Weapons shipments have included defensive anti-aircraft Stinger and anti-tank Javelin missiles, as well as ammunition and body armor. But U.S. and European leaders are being pressed by Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to provide heavier arms and equipment to engage Russia in the eastern region of the country, where Russia is expected to intensify its military efforts.

So without any of us here being privy to the actual logistics/operations of what the US/NATO is sending to Ukraine and when, and how that might be ramped up further in the near future, what more can be done that isn't already in play?

 

[Eatomus]

You are emotionally compromised and not making reasonable arguments, conclusions, and just repeating yourself.

Take a break and a breath.

Another fact you have proved yourself oblivious too with regard to the level of cooperation occurring as we speak between Russia & China :

China delivers missiles to Serbia, raising concerns of an arms buildup​

World Apr 10, 2022 3:06 PM EDT


Please tell me that you believe China delivering Missiles & other weapons to a Russian partner in the region is not a well planned and coordinated act ?
China testing the waters while a corrupt , compromised career politician, washed up years ago, dithers and wonders what flavor Ice cream he will be served after his nap .

 

[bave]

You are woefully uninformed as to the cooperation that has already occurred \between Russia and it's sworn partner in genocide China , and continues to occur :

"You think Russia wants Chinese advisors? China hasn't fought a war since they got beat up by 'Nam almost 50 years ago" ( bave )

When in fact the very date of the invasion was strategically coordinated between China & Russia .

"China asked Russia to delay Ukraine invasion until after Winter Olympics, say US officials"​

A fact you proved yourself oblivious too, and are now strategically avoiding.

Again, show me where the troops, munitions, materiel, advisors, and operations are. Maybe there was some coordination around the Olympics, again which is miles away from an actual military alliance.

Another fact you have proved yourself oblivious too with regard to the level of cooperation occurring as we speak between Russia & China :

You fail to mention that these deliveries were of purely defensive weapons, IAD equipment and also that Slovakia is not Russia.

Please tell me that you believe China delivering Missiles & other weapons to a Russian partner in the region is not a well planned and coordinated act ?
China testing the waters while a corrupt , compromised career politician, washed up years ago, dithers and wonders what flavor Ice cream he will be served after his nap .

No, I think China is selling military equipment, like they have been for years, including to Slovakia. Or are you suggesting that they are preparing to launch offensives from Slovakia? That should go well...

 

[Roadvirus]

View attachment 67385080

Considering Russia's performance in Ukraine, China picked a very piss-poor partner.

 

[jonny5]

No it would not "be an act of war". In WWII the USA sold weapons to Britain for over two years before it was at war.

And that was an act of war. If Russia sold weapons to Iraq, while we were attacking them, we would be pretty upset.

Sweden allowed Germany to transport troops to Finland. Shouldnt Finland think that Sweden was aiding their enemy? Sweden allowed Norwegians to train in Sweden, to go kill Germans. Germany wouldnt consider that aiding their enemy?

This proxy war stuff is exactly what got us where we are.

 

[Eatomus]

Considering Russia's performance in Ukraine, China picked a very piss-poor partner.

They have several piss poor partners, India being another .
Iran the world's #1 terror state will be full piss poor partner as well as soon as soon as Biden gets done kissing their posterior & ensures their nuclear future with his gift to them.

 

[Eatomus]

Again, show me where the troops, munitions, materiel, advisors, and operations are. Maybe there was some coordination around the Olympics, again which is miles away from an actual military alliance.



You fail to mention that these deliveries were of purely defensive weapons, IAD equipment and also that Slovakia is not Russia.



No, I think China is selling military equipment, like they have been for years, including to Slovakia. Or are you suggesting that they are preparing to launch offensives from Slovakia? That should go well...

Still slow on the uptake and well behind the power curve I see.
Let me clue you in.
Yes ,China has always sold weapons, but the opportunity they took in their blatant open manner to advertise & demonstrate their reach into NATO countries & region where a war is being conducted by their sworn partners was a first and a targeted demonstration the message of which would leave only those who are not very bright clueless to recognize .
A very public demonstration of their reach coordinated with their partner Russia by the way .


BELGRADE, SERBIA (AP)

China makes semi-secret delivery of missiles to Serbia​

Russian ally Serbia took the delivery of a sophisticated Chinese anti-aircraft system in a veiled operation this weekend, amid Western concerns that an arms buildup in the Balkans at the time of the war in Ukraine could threaten the fragile peace in the region.

Media and military experts said Sunday that six Chinese Air Force Y-20 transport planes landed at Belgrade’s civilian airport early Saturday, reportedly carrying HQ-22 surface-to-air missile systems for the Serbian military.

The Chinese cargo planes with military markings were pictured at Belgrade’s Nikola Tesla airport. Serbia’s defense ministry did not immediately respond to AP’s request for comment.

The arms delivery over the territory of at least two NATO member states, Turkey and Bulgaria, was seen by experts as a demonstration of China’s growing global reach.

“The Y-20s’ appearance raised eyebrows because they flew en masse as opposed to a series of single-aircraft flights,” wrote The Warzone online magazine. “The Y-20′s presence in Europe in any numbers is also still a fairly new development.”

Serbian military analyst Aleksandar Radic said that “the Chinese carried out their demonstration of force.”

 

[maxparrish]

There has been no trace of "stubborn reluctance" from the UK. So don't group that country with those financiers of Putin's genocide Germany and France. The UK is in the process of giving Ukraine a couple of hundred armoured fighting vehicles.

Sorry Sweden, you may have a soft spot for the UK but you've not been paying attention to Boris and his use of bold words to cover for his obstructionist view. In fact, he and Germany claim they see it the same way:

UK, Germany deny Ukraine's request for weapons to fight Russia; call it 'inappropriate'- Republic World

The UK and Germany, two of the most powerful military forces in Europe, have said they will not be supplying certain types of ammunition and war equipment to Ukraine. In a press conference on Friday, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it “wouldn’t be appropriate” for Western allies...

www.republicworld.com

The UK and Germany, two of the most powerful military forces in Europe, have said they will not be supplying certain types of ammunition and war equipment to Ukraine. In a press conference on Friday, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it “wouldn’t be appropriate” for Western allies to fulfil all of Ukraine's requests for weaponry. The British leader was speaking at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz following their first in-person meeting in London.

Earlier in the day, Berlin denied Kyiv’s request to supply Marder infantry fighting vehicles. In a response to Ukraine’s request for 100 Mander "tanks" (my note: those weren't tanks), German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht had said, “There is a request for Marder. But all of our own Marder infantry fighting vehicles are committed to NATO, so a decision must also be made within NATO.” (my note: ya shure, all of them but the many hundreds being retired to make room for the new Puma IVF).

Notably, NATO had earlier this week denied injecting weapons into the war-hit country, asserting that supplying heavy weapons to Ukrainian troops could elongate the ongoing war.

While Johnson said that supplying some of the requested ammunition “wouldn’t be appropriate”, he emphasized that in principle, he was open to sending any form of “defensive weapons” to Ukraine. “I’m in principle willing to consider anything by way of defensive weaponry to help the Ukrainians protect themselves and their people" he had said.

READ | EU steps up in monitoring Ukraine crisis; creates Twitter page to report aid to Zelenskyy

“I think it’s important that we should be giving equipment that is genuinely useful and is operable by Ukrainians, that’s our consideration,” he said.
“It may be more useful to support the Ukrainians by backfilling and allowing some of the former Warsaw Pact countries to supply some of their armor in the way that you’ve been seeing,” he added

Lots of double talk filled with non-sequiturs and weasel words like "what is useful" and "defensive" and "appropriate".

In other words, pure bull shit.

UK, Germany deny Ukraine's request for weapons to fight Russia; call it 'inappropriate'- Republic World

The UK and Germany, two of the most powerful military forces in Europe, have said they will not be supplying certain types of ammunition and war equipment to Ukraine. In a press conference on Friday, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it “wouldn’t be appropriate” for Western allies...

www.republicworld.com

 

[bave]

Still slow on the uptake and well behind the power curve I see.
Let me clue you in.
Yes ,China has always sold weapons, but the opportunity they took in their blatant open manner to advertise & demonstrate their reach into NATO countries & region where a war is being conducted by their sworn partners was a first and a targeted demonstration the message of which would leave only those who are not very bright clueless to recognize .
A very public demonstration of their reach coordinated with their partner Russia by the way .


BELGRADE, SERBIA (AP)

China makes semi-secret delivery of missiles to Serbia​

Russian ally Serbia took the delivery of a sophisticated Chinese anti-aircraft system in a veiled operation this weekend, amid Western concerns that an arms buildup in the Balkans at the time of the war in Ukraine could threaten the fragile peace in the region.

Media and military experts said Sunday that six Chinese Air Force Y-20 transport planes landed at Belgrade’s civilian airport early Saturday, reportedly carrying HQ-22 surface-to-air missile systems for the Serbian military.

The Chinese cargo planes with military markings were pictured at Belgrade’s Nikola Tesla airport. Serbia’s defense ministry did not immediately respond to AP’s request for comment.

The arms delivery over the territory of at least two NATO member states, Turkey and Bulgaria, was seen by experts as a demonstration of China’s growing global reach.

“The Y-20s’ appearance raised eyebrows because they flew en masse as opposed to a series of single-aircraft flights,” wrote The Warzone online magazine. “The Y-20′s presence in Europe in any numbers is also still a fairly new development.”

Serbian military analyst Aleksandar Radic said that “the Chinese carried out their demonstration of force.”

Blatant and open manner? Dude, that's not new. China has never made a secret of what they sell, to whom, or how it gets delivered. Do you think a dozen radars didn't pick up these C-17 knockoffs flying around the world? Do you think we didn't see what they loaded and unloaded?

Do you think anyone is concerned that China could fly some transport planes to Europe? Big.deal. It's not hard, lots of people can do that, including Russia. None of this speaks to some sort of Chinese/Russian military alliance you keep claiming.

You need to chill out and breathe.

 

[bave]

Lots of double talk filled with non-sequiturs and weasel words like "what is useful" and "defensive" and "appropriate".

In other words, pure bull shit.

UK, Germany deny Ukraine's request for weapons to fight Russia; call it 'inappropriate'- Republic World

The UK and Germany, two of the most powerful military forces in Europe, have said they will not be supplying certain types of ammunition and war equipment to Ukraine. In a press conference on Friday, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said that it “wouldn’t be appropriate” for Western allies...

www.republicworld.com

No, it's called common sense. It wouldn't be smart to give Ukraine offensive weapons that could strike into Russia deeper and more reliably. Moreover, those systems are also expensive and difficult to replace. The world isn't exactly swimming in standoff PGMs.

 

[maxparrish]

No, it's called common sense. It wouldn't be smart to give Ukraine offensive weapons that could strike into Russia deeper and more reliably. Moreover, those systems are also expensive and difficult to replace. The world isn't exactly swimming in standoff PGMs.

Sorry bave, it's common ignorance. Here's how:

Knee jerk defender's pick up a few cliched phrases like "offensive weapons" or "defensive weapons" without a clue as to what they are repeating. And when the white house is forced to explain it in a press conference and they get so tied up in knots they start babbling about "what is useful" and "appropriate', peppering on more completely subjective terms hiding their "non-thought" over a policy that amounts to just a fearful feeling, nothing more.

Your "strike more deeply" isn't a standard of anything, other than whatever you "feel" is too deep or not too deep. There is no published limit on the "the most that is smart".

It doesn't even make sense. Ukraine is a conventional military using conventional weapons. It's tanks fire just as far as any NATO tank, so how does classifying a tank as "offensive" having anything to do with "too deep"?

It doesn't.

See, its paper thin excuses wrapped around bull shit.

 

[Eatomus]

Blatant and open manner? Dude, that's not new. China has never made a secret of what they sell, to whom, or how it gets delivered. Do you think a dozen radars didn't pick up these C-17 knockoffs flying around the world? Do you think we didn't see what they loaded and unloaded?

Do you think anyone is concerned that China could fly some transport planes to Europe? Big.deal. It's not hard, lots of people can do that, including Russia. None of this speaks to some sort of Chinese/Russian military alliance you keep claiming.

You need to chill out and breathe.

You need to read the King's English with a modicum of understanding :

“The Y-20s’ appearance raised eyebrows because they flew en masse as opposed to a series of single-aircraft flights,” wrote The Warzone online magazine. “The Y-20′s presence in Europe in any numbers is also still a fairly new development.

 

[bave]

You need to read the King's English with a modicum of understanding :

“The Y-20s’ appearance raised eyebrows because they flew en masse as opposed to a series of single-aircraft flights,” wrote The Warzone online magazine. “The Y-20′s presence in Europe in any numbers is also still a fairly new development.

Lol. It's not. Chinese logistical aircraft have been traveling as far as Africa to deliver weapons. It's not new, nor does it indicate China intends to actually get involved in European conflicts.

 

[bave]

It doesn't even make sense. Ukraine is a conventional military using conventional weapons. It's tanks fire just as far as any NATO tank, so how does classifying a tank as "offensive" having anything to do with "too deep"?

It doesn't.

See, its paper thin excuses wrapped around bull shit.

Yea, that's a ridiculous point of view. Why not just give them LATCMs then to rain down on Moscow? Why not give them F35's? Why not give them whatever they wanted?

The problem is that the more the West supplies weapons that can actually hurt *Russia* and impede their overall progress the more likely Russia will have to respond to those supply lines.