The War Crimes of Vladimir Putin

[Napoleon]

But Ukraine doesn't have much choice in the matter, do they? Russia has forced them into the position of defending their cities. Any civilian casualties are the fault of Russia, for instigating the war in the first place.

Of course they have a choice. They can choose not to hide their armored vehicles and tanks under bridges being used by civilians to evacuate. That is a choice. It’s also a choice to call your entire nation to arms - conscript every man over the age of 18 and have their wives making Molotovs for you. Sorry, but you can’t turn your population into combats and call it a war crime when they’re killed.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Of course they have a choice.

Rusia is an existential threat to Ukraine. Your "choices" amount to sundering whatever defenses can be mustered.

In this war, Ukrainian civilians will fight shoulder to shoulder with the Ukraine military.

 

[Rogue Valley]

And yes, one can call the murder of unarmed civilains a war crime.

Russia needs to have a strict Rules Of Engagement.

But Russia has never done that, not in Chechnya, not in Afghanistan, and not in Syria.

They kill whomever gets in their way, which is precisely why Moscow is an existential threat.

 

[Napoleon]

Rusia is an existential threat to Ukraine. Your "choices" amount to sundering whatever defenses can be mustered.

In this war, Ukrainian civilians will fight shoulder to shoulder with the Ukraine military.

What you fail to realize is that once you’ve conscripted your civilians they are no longer civilians - they are combatants.

 

[watsup]

Of course they have a choice. They can choose not to hide their armored vehicles and tanks under bridges being used by civilians to evacuate. That is a choice. It’s also a choice to call your entire nation to arms - conscript every man over the age of 18 and have their wives making Molotovs for you. Sorry, but you can’t turn your population into combats and call it a war crime when they’re killed.

You still haven’t a clue about the Geneva Convention. Random and indiscriminate shelling of civilian residential areas is a war crime. That, and the evil madman Putin has clearly decided to kill as many Ukrainians as he can, no matter what.

 

[Chagos]

What you fail to realize is that once you’ve conscripted your civilians they are no longer civilians - they are combatants.

What you fail to realize is that not all Ukrainian combatants are conscripts. Like, as an example, those over 60 and under 17 years of age.

Or those older and younger.

Not to mention those within the age bracket in the middle exempt from military service who fight anyway.

 

[watsup]

What you fail to realize is that once you’ve conscripted your civilians they are no longer civilians - they are combatants.

And if they meet on the battlefield, wherever that is, then they do indeed become combatants. When there wives and children and elderly relatives her shelled by Putin, that is a clear war crime.

 

[watsup]

And if they meet on the battlefield, wherever that is, then they do indeed become combatants. When there wives and children and elderly relatives her shelled by Putin, that is a clear war crime.

 

[Napoleon]

What you fail to realize is that not all Ukrainian combatants are conscripts. Like, as an example, those over 60 and under 17 years of age.

Or those older and younger.

Not to mention those within the age bracket in the middle exempt from military service who fight anyway.

None of that changes what I said.

 

[Napoleon]

But Ukraine doesn't have much choice in the matter, do they? Russia has forced them into the position of defending their cities. Any civilian casualties are the fault of Russia, for instigating the war in the first place.

Just so we’re clear…when American troops were torturing, raping, and murdering civilians that was the fault of Afghanistan?

 

[watsup]

Just so we’re clear…when American troops were torturing, raping, and murdering civilians that was the fault of Afghanistan?

Whataboutism. The topic is the war crimes of Vladimir Putin.

 

[watsup]

None of that changes what I said.

That’s because what you said remains ridiculous. You haven’t a clue about the Geneva Convention, Neither does the evil madman Putin.

 

[Napoleon]

Whataboutism. The topic is the war crimes of Vladimir Putin.

The topic is what constitutes a war crime and who is responsible. You haven’t provided any evidence that Russia has committed war crimes in Ukraine.

 

[MaryP]

Civilians should not be indiscriminately targeted. That is a war crime, and Putin has ZERO concern about committing them. No matter how many lame excuses you make for him. You must be a Republican.

Okay, Watsup, if it's a war crime, why hasn't he been arrested? Help me understand what labelling it a war crime is going to do? (Invading was a crime. All that follows is just the obscenity of war, isn't it?)

 

[Irredentist]

Of course they have a choice. They can choose not to hide their armored vehicles and tanks under bridges being used by civilians to evacuate. That is a choice. It’s also a choice to call your entire nation to arms - conscript every man over the age of 18 and have their wives making Molotovs for you. Sorry, but you can’t turn your population into combats and call it a war crime when they’re killed.

The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence as an independent nation. You cannot expect anything else from them other than resistance by any and all means. Putin may not have realized this when he decided to attack, but his miscalculaton does not excuse him from blame for the civilians casualties that result from his war.

Just so we’re clear…when American troops were torturing, raping, and murdering civilians that was the fault of Afghanistan?

I'm not sure how you would possibly get that meaning from what I said.

 

[Napoleon]

The Ukrainians are fighting for their very existence as an independent nation. You cannot expect anything else from them other than resistance by any and all means. Putin may not have realized this when he decided to attack, but his miscalculaton does not excuse him from blame for the civilians casualties that result from his war.

I think you’re missing the point. Civilians who choose to act or are designated by their government as combatants are no longer civilians and they are not civilian casualties. That isn’t a value judgement on whether or not they should be. It’s a statement of fact that they are what they are and combatants are legitimate military targets in war.

I'm not sure how you would possibly get that meaning from what I said.

I’m looking to see if your position is consistent or, like everyone else around here, you hold Russia to a higher standard of responsibility than your own country.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Of course they have a choice. They can choose not to hide their armored vehicles and tanks under bridges being used by civilians to evacuate. That is a choice. It’s also a choice to call your entire nation to arms - conscript every man over the age of 18 and have their wives making Molotovs for you. Sorry, but you can’t turn your population into combats and call it a war crime when they’re killed.

Yes you can. They are suffering an unprovoked and justified attack.

 

[Napoleon]

Yes you can. They are suffering an unprovoked and justified attack.

Anyone with intellectual honesty cannot deny that there were provocations leading up to this war. And no, you don’t get to participate in a war and complain about being shot at.

 

[Irredentist]

I think you’re missing the point. Civilians who choose to act or are designated by their government as combatants are no longer civilians and they are not civilian casualties.

And if Putin hadn't chosen to invade those civilians wouldn't need to pick up arms in defense of their country. Ultimately it's still his fault, and their deaths will be laid at his door, along with all the Russian and Ukrainian soldiers.

I’m looking to see if your position is consistent or, like everyone else around here, you hold Russia to a higher standard of responsibility than your own country.

If you're asking whether I condone military aggression on the part of the United States, for example against Iraq or Afghanistan, the answer is that I do not.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Anyone with intellectual honesty cannot deny that there were provocations leading up to this war. And no, you don’t get to participate in a war and complain about being shot at.

Utter nonsense.

Ukraine, a sovereign nation, wanting to join an alliance is not a valid provocation for war.

Try to be intellectually honest instead of just talking about intellectual honesty.

And no, Ukraine did not choose to participate in this war, they suffered an unprovoked attack and had no choice but to try to defend themselves.

Why the hell are you making excuses for the most evil dictator since Hitler?

 

[watsup]

The topic is what constitutes a war crime and who is responsible. You haven’t provided any evidence that Russia has committed war crimes in Ukraine.

I have indeed, but your entire goal seems to be to find a way to excuse Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine through the use of whataboutism to blame everyone but him. If I didn’t know better, I’d think that you were one of his social media hackers whose goal was to defend the evil madman at all costs. Does doing so make you proud?

 

[Napoleon]

Utter nonsense.

Ukraine, a sovereign nation, wanting to join an alliance is not a valid provocation for war.

Try to be intellectually honest instead of just talking about intellectual honesty.

And no, Ukraine did not choose to participate in this war, they suffered an unprovoked attack and had no choice but to try to defend themselves.

Why the hell are you making excuses for the most evil dictator since Hitler?

You need some perspective. Zelensky has a big mouth and he’s spent his Presidency acting like a tough guy. He has made no bones about announcing his intention to retake Crimea and spin up a nuclear weapons program to anyone who will listen. All of that was a giant leap too far.

You also need to recognize that the right to self determination isn’t reserved for those who want to snuggle up to NATO. What of those in the Donbas who want independence from Ukraine and those who have fled to Russia in the course of this war? What of those who are brutally oppressed by a nationalist government in Ukraine which keeps its political opposition under house arrest?

Putin and Zelensky are more alike than you realize.

 

[oneworld2]

Napoleons position is absolutely correct on this. If you take part in the war you lose your none combatant status and thus become a legitimate military target.

We see this inconsistency all the time but the message is clear.

When Hamas fighters stay in the urban areas it is decried as their use of human shields, when Ukrainians do it it is classed as a necessary evil.

You can't have one standard for one set of people and one for another

 

[NolanVoyd]

Napoleons position is absolutely correct on this. If you take part in the war you lose your none combatant status and thus become a legitimate military target.

We see this inconsistency all the time but the message is clear.

When Hamas fighters stay in the urban areas it is decried as their use of human shields, when Ukrainians do it it is classed as a necessary evil.

You can't have one standard for one set of people and one for another

Ukraine did not choose to take part in a war.

 

[watsup]

You need some perspective. Zelensky has a big mouth and he’s spent his Presidency acting like a tough guy. He has made no bones about announcing his intention to retake Crimea and spin up a nuclear weapons program to anyone who will listen. All of that was a giant leap too far.

You also need to recognize that the right to self determination isn’t reserved for those who want to snuggle up to NATO. What of those in the Donbas who want independence from Ukraine and those who have fled to Russia in the course of this war? What of those who are brutally oppressed by a nationalist government in Ukraine which keeps its political opposition under house arrest?

Putin and Zelensky are more alike than you realize

Could have come directly from the mouth of Vladimir Putin. Does that make you proud?