The war against Islam

[washunut]

Many Jews actually did use terrorist methodology when the Brits were in charge of that area, trying to get rid of them.

You want to bring up what people did 60-70 years ago. Should we talk about how the U.S. dealt with native Americans.

 

[beerftw]

by Islam.

The sectarian war between Shiites and Sunni and the rest of factions in the Islamic world a (culture and polity), continues as it has from the 8th century

Other faiths are also considered enemies of Islam, while perhaps millions (just?) of the 1.4 billion hate and kill not only one another but any other they encounter.

Being a Muslim is not a guarantee that a Muslim won't kill you for some reason. Shiites are murdered today by Sunni who kill Shia and either will continue to murder Christians or Baha'i or
those following Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

Looking at the history and contemporary behavior of Muslims should make it clear that Islam is NOT capable of living peacefully among either other Muslims nor any other polity that values human rights and freedom.

A polity such as the Third Reich was considered an enemy one dedicated to genocide by the free world.
Western democracies should not consider a Muslim as simply another benign immigrant. Given the factual history and contemporary behavior of Muslims, any seeking immigration or asylum in Western democracies should be fully vetted based not on jingoism, racism or xenophobia, but because of the fanaticism of some that practice the culture of hate that rises from Islam.

Certainly there are those Muslims that seek but a peaceful life, as there are and have been followers of other(Jews- Christians-Sikhs etc.) that have been fanatical monsters.

But TODAY, we need to accept the reality of a polity that would force laws and culture and restriction of our freedoms as those that exist in countries that follow Islam.

One cannot deny the violence and human rights violations and demeaning of women,gays and other religious by those holding Islamic political leadership.

One cannot deny the attempts by fundamentalists to insidiously impose Islamic laws or cultures on Western countries. (Sharia, camel's nose attempts in Canada during Ontario NDP government -example.)

One then must take reasonable care not to import those infected or carrying radical agendas/baggage into our democracies.

Should we not?

Is there not a compelling case to take a stand?



Religious fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i have been to the middle east,and most muslims are peacefull and dont wage war on eachotheer.

however like with any group,it only takesa few radicals to cause numerous deaths.and that extrememinority of the muslim population is the ones who start war with other nations,or religious sects of islam,and other tribes/ethnicities.war itself has been a constant in the middle east,only really broken twice,once by the persian empire,and again by the ottomen turks,outside the 2 empires,there has always been war there,even before islam wwas founded.

 

[rocket88]

You want to bring up what people did 60-70 years ago. Should we talk about how the U.S. dealt with native Americans.

I never said the US was perfect, but you wanted to know when a Jew ever engaged in terrorism. Historically, some have.

 

[washunut]

I never said the US was perfect, but you wanted to know when a Jew ever engaged in terrorism. Historically, some have.

OK how about in the 21st century.

 

[rocket88]

OK how about in the 21st century.

That's only the last 13 years and a very short view of history. But I guess it does help your argument, so...

 

[DDD]

They were probably born in the U.S. radicalized over the internet and went to Somalia like all the other similar cases of this.

Radicalization through the internet is a serious propaganda method. I think it has derailed lives of many young.

 

[DDD]

Islam can be used as means to achieve political grounds. It then may use indoctrination that are polar to western values (i.e., hate speeches) and force by fooling extreme followers with middle age statements (i.e., thy shall be rewarded in heaven for going anti-West, and punished if not!). The extreme followers are usually weak, poor people, whom must listen to these preaches and be indoctrinated through a free offering of a meal, clothing, physical warmth, or so. Another sample would be people whom lack critical thinking: the dumb or children.

I agree that it is a problem. I think it is a real pain in the neck!!! The problem though, how to stop it by having in mind our values of human rights?

 

[Mason66]

Yes they are, Islam as many divisions each differing on what being a Muslim includes. Those that want to come to Western countries are those who are Muslims but do not follow extremist interpretations. They are progressively becoming more and more Liberal. The extremists make up .001% of the Muslim immigrants. If we are going to forbid Muslims form immigrating because of a very few extremists, we should stop Jews aswell because ultra-orthodox Jews do the same things.

How could you possibly know that?

 

[rathi]

Then there are those like the Khadrs, Canadians that attacked our allies.

The Khadrs were in Afghanistan and were no threat to Canada at all. Incidentally, it was your wonderful ally in the U.S. that kidnapped imprisoned and tortured Canadian citizens.

There are those imprisoned even here in Canada that plotted terrorist bombings here and others have suceeded elsewhere Spain-Britain etc.
Some being born in the country attacked.

There has only been one lethal terrorist attack in Canada in the last decade, and it was committed by a local Canadian anglophone. Your deception in trying to scapegoat Muslims as the dangerous threat is not borne out by the fact that the overwhelming majority of terrorism in Canada is committed by domestic groups.

This is 2013, not the 70's, the sterilized referenced is hardly on point and the Provincial NDP under Rae did lean to Sharia.

The sterilized reference is most certainly on point. Unpopular groups lacking in political influence were targeted because nobody spoke up against the persecution. The same thing is happening today when innocent Canadian Muslims were imprisoned and tortured.

Your Shariah claim is utter nonsense, faith based arbitration was already offered under Canadian law to Jews and other religious groups. Muslims seeking the same legal services offered to other religious groups is not theocracy. Having the Catholic church run the schools in Quebec is theocracy.

Every bigot tries to justify their persecution by inventing fantasies in which their victims are dangerous threats and their hatred is only self defense.

 

[SgtRock]

Islam can be used as means to achieve political grounds. It then may use indoctrination that are polar to western values (i.e., hate speeches) and force by fooling extreme followers with middle age statements (i.e., thy shall be rewarded in heaven for going anti-West, and punished if not!). The extreme followers are usually weak, poor people, whom must listen to these preaches and be indoctrinated through a free offering of a meal, clothing, physical warmth, or so. Another sample would be people whom lack critical thinking: the dumb or children.

I agree that it is a problem. I think it is a real pain in the neck!!! The problem though, how to stop it by having in mind our values of human rights?

Many of the 911 jihadist were well educated and some came from well to do families as did bin Laden

 

[DDD]

Many of the 911 jihadist were well educated and some came from well to do families as did bin Laden

Lack of critical thinking/dumb/or indoctrinated from childhood. Major emphasis on indoctrination here and it comes from some freaking anti West preachings that Hoxha's do at the mosques. For an illustration see Syriana with George Clooney.

Still, how to treat the problem?

 

[Wiseone]

by Islam.

The sectarian war between Shiites and Sunni and the rest of factions in the Islamic world a (culture and polity), continues as it has from the 8th century

Other faiths are also considered enemies of Islam, while perhaps millions (just?) of the 1.4 billion hate and kill not only one another but any other they encounter.

Being a Muslim is not a guarantee that a Muslim won't kill you for some reason. Shiites are murdered today by Sunni who kill Shia and either will continue to murder Christians or Baha'i or
those following Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

Looking at the history and contemporary behavior of Muslims should make it clear that Islam is NOT capable of living peacefully among either other Muslims nor any other polity that values human rights and freedom.

A polity such as the Third Reich was considered an enemy one dedicated to genocide by the free world.
Western democracies should not consider a Muslim as simply another benign immigrant. Given the factual history and contemporary behavior of Muslims, any seeking immigration or asylum in Western democracies should be fully vetted based not on jingoism, racism or xenophobia, but because of the fanaticism of some that practice the culture of hate that rises from Islam.

Certainly there are those Muslims that seek but a peaceful life, as there are and have been followers of other(Jews- Christians-Sikhs etc.) that have been fanatical monsters.

But TODAY, we need to accept the reality of a polity that would force laws and culture and restriction of our freedoms as those that exist in countries that follow Islam.

One cannot deny the violence and human rights violations and demeaning of women,gays and other religious by those holding Islamic political leadership.

One cannot deny the attempts by fundamentalists to insidiously impose Islamic laws or cultures on Western countries. (Sharia, camel's nose attempts in Canada during Ontario NDP government -example.)

One then must take reasonable care not to import those infected or carrying radical agendas/baggage into our democracies.

Should we not?

Is there not a compelling case to take a stand?



Religious fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stopped reading right there at the bolded line, no there are not millions of people who will literally kill you right at the moment of meeting you.

No

Just no

That's a stupid thing to say.

 

[Carjosse]

How could you possibly know that?

Well most Muslims immigrants function normally in society and we don't hear about how the Muslim immigrants are killing people very day. Street gangs are more of a direct threat to security because they kill innocent almost everyday.

 

[Hypersonic]

by Islam.

The sectarian war between Shiites and Sunni and the rest of factions in the Islamic world a (culture and polity), continues as it has from the 8th century

Other faiths are also considered enemies of Islam, while perhaps millions (just?) of the 1.4 billion hate and kill not only one another but any other they encounter.

Being a Muslim is not a guarantee that a Muslim won't kill you for some reason. Shiites are murdered today by Sunni who kill Shia and either will continue to murder Christians or Baha'i or
those following Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

Looking at the history and contemporary behavior of Muslims should make it clear that Islam is NOT capable of living peacefully among either other Muslims nor any other polity that values human rights and freedom.

A polity such as the Third Reich was considered an enemy one dedicated to genocide by the free world.
Western democracies should not consider a Muslim as simply another benign immigrant. Given the factual history and contemporary behavior of Muslims, any seeking immigration or asylum in Western democracies should be fully vetted based not on jingoism, racism or xenophobia, but because of the fanaticism of some that practice the culture of hate that rises from Islam.
u
Certainly there are those Muslims that seek but a peaceful life, as there are and have been followers of other(Jews- Christians-Sikhs etc.) that have been fanatical monsters.

But TODAY, we need to accept the reality of a polity that would force laws and culture and restriction of our freedoms as those that exist in countries that follow Islam.

One cannot deny the violence and human rights violations and demeaning of women,gays and other religious by those holding Islamic political leadership.

One cannot deny the attempts by fundamentalists to insidiously impose Islamic laws or cultures on Western countries. (Sharia, camel's nose attempts in Canada during Ontario NDP government -example.)

One then must take reasonable care not to import those infected or carrying radical agendas/baggage into our democracies.

Should we not?

Is there not a compelling case to take a stand?



Religious fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam is not the problem, misunderstanding is but I agree that being Muslim is no gurantee of survival.

 

[[]D e e v e s]

The Khadrs were in Afghanistan and were no threat to Canada at all. Incidentally, it was your wonderful ally in the U.S. that kidnapped imprisoned and tortured Canadian citizens.

UN troops in afghanistan


NATO was/is in Afghanistan. Our NATO allies were in Afghanistan then. Canada there with NATO. Khadrs were making every attempt to kill NATO troops. They were therefore traitors. They would have as soon killed one NATO soldier as another.
(In December 2001, the U.N. Security Council established the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), to oversee security in the country and train the Afghan National Security Forces) Canada is a member of UN forces.


A quick sketch of Omar Khadr's family | CP24.com



There has only been one lethal terrorist attack in Canada in the last decade, and it was committed by a local Canadian anglophone. Your deception in trying to scapegoat Muslims as the dangerous threat is not borne out by the fact that the overwhelming majority of terrorism in Canada is committed by domestic groups.



Where have I lied or misstated facts? Calling me names serves no purpose unless you can back up your charge. Certainly there have been plots discovered and stopped. There is currently a Musilm charged with terrorism that will not accept Canada's law, only the Koran. Is that who we want as citizens ? those as the Khadrs and others that would kill us or our allies?




The sterilized reference is most certainly on point. Unpopular groups lacking in political influence were targeted because nobody spoke up against the persecution. The same thing is happening today when innocent Canadian Muslims were imprisoned and tortured.


No it isn't it's a non sequitur to fudge the issue.

Your Shariah claim is utter nonsense, faith based arbitration was already offered under Canadian law to Jews and other religious groups. Muslims seeking the same legal services offered to other religious groups is not theocracy. Having the Catholic church run the schools in Quebec is theocracy.

The object of Islamists is openly declared to be implementation of Sharia law, the moral code and religious law of Islam.

Every bigot tries to justify their persecution by inventing fantasies in which their victims are dangerous threats and their hatred is only self defense.

And I'm not a bigot. I am a realist. I read the news. I read the Islamists attacks, the sectarian attacks, the court cases. The world wide acts and commentary by Islamists. There's no denying facts published world wide.
However, you seem by your positions and accusations to be an apologist and enabler for Islamists and terror cells purported to be be in Western countries with an agenda that is certainly a threat. I believe that since Muslims in Canada have said so openly. They are the brave ones.

 

[garyd]

Lack of critical thinking/dumb/or indoctrinated from childhood. Major emphasis on indoctrination here and it comes from some freaking anti West preachings that Hoxha's do at the mosques. For an illustration see Syriana with George Clooney.

Still, how to treat the problem?

I hate to disagree but that isn't quite right. They weren't indoctrinated at birth. I wish it was that simple. Almost to a man the 9/11 hijackers and many other terrorists sought to be indoctrinated. Hell this odd ball crap started with the founder of the religion who began life as the overly protected child of a rich caravan merchant and after encountering the poor thought someone should do something and of course it wasn't enough that he do something everyone else had to do something too. Yeah those nineteen guys wre upper middle class if not wealthy but their problem was that they no longer fit any where. They had in essence become that nihilistic, hollow man existing outside of everything but desperately wanting to belong somewhere, anywhere. Unfortunately they found it with Bin Laden who gave their lives meaning and the opportunity for fulfillment though at the expense of their own lives and that of thousands of other.

 

[DDD]

I hate to disagree but that isn't quite right. They weren't indoctrinated at birth. I wish it was that simple. Almost to a man the 9/11 hijackers and many other terrorists sought to be indoctrinated. Hell this odd ball crap started with the founder of the religion who began life as the overly protected child of a rich caravan merchant and after encountering the poor thought someone should do something and of course it wasn't enough that he do something everyone else had to do something too. Yeah those nineteen guys wre upper middle class if not wealthy but their problem was that they no longer fit any where. They had in essence become that nihilistic, hollow man existing outside of everything but desperately wanting to belong somewhere, anywhere. Unfortunately they found it with Bin Laden who gave their lives meaning and the opportunity for fulfillment though at the expense of their own lives and that of thousands of other.

Three groups: a) Lack of critical thinking, b) dumb, and c) indoctrinated. They may not be indoctrinated from childhood but could do so when they started feeling lost and did not belong anywhere.

 

[garyd]

They also aren't stupid... more than a tad crazy yes but crazy isn't necessarily stupid. Underestimating one's foes only makes it more difficult to deal with them as does misunderstanding their motives. And please note their motives aren't necessarily the same as Osama's.

If you really want to understand what I'm talking about here read Terry Pratchett's delightful book 'thud'. He demonstrates a better understanding of the problem than your average clinical psychologist. On top of which it is the best political satire since 'Gulliver's Travels' invented the form.