• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The war against Islam

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
by Islam.

The sectarian war between Shiites and Sunni and the rest of factions in the Islamic world a (culture and polity), continues as it has from the 8th century

Other faiths are also considered enemies of Islam, while perhaps millions (just?) of the 1.4 billion hate and kill not only one another but any other they encounter.

Being a Muslim is not a guarantee that a Muslim won't kill you for some reason. Shiites are murdered today by Sunni who kill Shia and either will continue to murder Christians or Baha'i or
those following Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

Looking at the history and contemporary behavior of Muslims should make it clear that Islam is NOT capable of living peacefully among either other Muslims nor any other polity that values human rights and freedom.

A polity such as the Third Reich was considered an enemy one dedicated to genocide by the free world.
Western democracies should not consider a Muslim as simply another benign immigrant. Given the factual history and contemporary behavior of Muslims, any seeking immigration or asylum in Western democracies should be fully vetted based not on jingoism, racism or xenophobia, but because of the fanaticism of some that practice the culture of hate that rises from Islam.

Certainly there are those Muslims that seek but a peaceful life, as there are and have been followers of other(Jews- Christians-Sikhs etc.) that have been fanatical monsters.

But TODAY, we need to accept the reality of a polity that would force laws and culture and restriction of our freedoms as those that exist in countries that follow Islam.

One cannot deny the violence and human rights violations and demeaning of women,gays and other religious by those holding Islamic political leadership.

One cannot deny the attempts by fundamentalists to insidiously impose Islamic laws or cultures on Western countries. (Sharia, camel's nose attempts in Canada during Ontario NDP government -example.)

One then must take reasonable care not to import those infected or carrying radical agendas/baggage into our democracies.

Should we not?

Is there not a compelling case to take a stand?



Religious fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Last edited:

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,580
Reaction score
31,554
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

As long as they keep their culture of violence over there, I don't care what they do. I have an issue with us getting involved in the first place.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
15,826
Reaction score
7,374
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Well I guarantee 99.99% of the Muslims who want to immigrate are not fanatical Muslims.
 

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Well I guarantee 99.99% of the Muslims who want to immigrate are not fanatical Muslims.

Would you put your life up as collateral to that guarantee?

Of course it's contingent on definitions. I.E. What's fanatical? Is it those practicing FGM? or Honor Murders? or demeaning of women> or gays?
Or is it the simply those that would become martyrs by murder ?

Or is it those that agree with fatwa? (" In Sunni Islam any fatwā is non-binding, whereas in Shia Islam it could be considered by an individual as binding, depending on his or her relation")

We have had those types immigrating into Canada, and, I consider them fanatics. Regardless the % one slipping under the smoke screen of lies and instruction by some immigration lawyer is one too many. Those vetted and found acceptable under our values, I too will support. However, those perhaps considered as secular or moderates, are not following Islam according to fundamental Muslims and are not Muslims.
 

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
As long as they keep their culture of violence over there, I don't care what they do. I have an issue with us getting involved in the first place.

"THEY" have cells in most if not all Western Countries and there have been plots exposed as well as successful attacks in many Western democracies by radical Muslims.
So the bell has been rung, "they" have involved 'US". Sticking head in sand won't change that.

Islamist Muslims are not only our enemy, but the enemy of the sects within Islam itself.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
15,826
Reaction score
7,374
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Would you put your life up as collateral to that guarantee?

Of course it's contingent on definitions. I.E. What's fanatical? Is it those practicing FGM? or Honor Murders? or demeaning of women> or gays?
Or is it the simply those that would become martyrs by murder ?

Or is it those that agree with fatwa? (" In Sunni Islam any fatwā is non-binding, whereas in Shia Islam it could be considered by an individual as binding, depending on his or her relation")

We have had those types immigrating into Canada, and, I consider them fanatics. Regardless the % one slipping under the smoke screen of lies and instruction by some immigration lawyer is one too many. Those vetted and found acceptable under our values, I too will support. However, those perhaps considered as secular or moderates, are not following Islam according to fundamental Muslims and are not Muslims.

Yes they are, Islam as many divisions each differing on what being a Muslim includes. Those that want to come to Western countries are those who are Muslims but do not follow extremist interpretations. They are progressively becoming more and more Liberal. The extremists make up .001% of the Muslim immigrants. If we are going to forbid Muslims form immigrating because of a very few extremists, we should stop Jews aswell because ultra-orthodox Jews do the same things.
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,580
Reaction score
31,554
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
"THEY" have cells in most if not all Western Countries and there have been plots exposed as well as successful attacks in many Western democracies by radical Muslims.
So the bell has been rung, "they" have involved 'US". Sticking head in sand won't change that.

Islamist Muslims are not only our enemy, but the enemy of the sects within Islam itself.

Yes, I realize that. As I said, as long as they keep it over there, I don't care if they kill each other. If the moderate of the Islamic world wants to do anything constructive, then they can start policing their own, and start doing something to address the problems within their ranks. If they bring it to our shores, then I fully support a full-out war to stomp that activity out over here, but it's not our job to police the entire world.
 

DiAnna

Hooter Babe
Moderator
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
52,604
Reaction score
29,756
Location
Northern California
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
I suspect the vast majority of Muslims wanting to immigrate to the USA, as well as those who have already immigrated, are trying to get away from the fanatics in their own countries and want only to live in peace.
 

Medusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
39,861
Reaction score
7,852
Location
Turkey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
by Islam.

The sectarian war between Shiites and Sunni and the rest of factions in the Islamic world a (culture and polity), continues as it has from the 8th century

Other faiths are also considered enemies of Islam, while perhaps millions (just?) of the 1.4 billion hate and kill not only one another but any other they encounter.

Being a Muslim is not a guarantee that a Muslim won't kill you for some reason. Shiites are murdered today by Sunni who kill Shia and either will continue to murder Christians or Baha'i or
those following Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Yet we accommodate this political culture of violence as if they were entitled to special privilege as a religion.

I suggest they are not a religious order but a polity dedicated for centuries to imposition of their laws and culture on the rest of the world.

Looking at the history and contemporary behavior of Muslims should make it clear that Islam is NOT capable of living peacefully among either other Muslims nor any other polity that values human rights and freedom.

A polity such as the Third Reich was considered an enemy one dedicated to genocide by the free world.
Western democracies should not consider a Muslim as simply another benign immigrant. Given the factual history and contemporary behavior of Muslims, any seeking immigration or asylum in Western democracies should be fully vetted based not on jingoism, racism or xenophobia, but because of the fanaticism of some that practice the culture of hate that rises from Islam.

Certainly there are those Muslims that seek but a peaceful life, as there are and have been followers of other(Jews- Christians-Sikhs etc.) that have been fanatical monsters.

But TODAY, we need to accept the reality of a polity that would force laws and culture and restriction of our freedoms as those that exist in countries that follow Islam.

One cannot deny the violence and human rights violations and demeaning of women,gays and other religious by those holding Islamic political leadership.

One cannot deny the attempts by fundamentalists to insidiously impose Islamic laws or cultures on Western countries. (Sharia, camel's nose attempts in Canada during Ontario NDP government -example.)

One then must take reasonable care not to import those infected or carrying radical agendas/baggage into our democracies.

Should we not?

Is there not a compelling case to take a stand?



Religious fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


there is no war but an alliance with islam
 

Velvet Elvis

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
2,195
Location
Midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
As long as they keep their culture of violence over there, I don't care what they do. I have an issue with us getting involved in the first place.

Agreed. Let 'em go blow each other up over there. Hell, I'm for Black Ops project for speeding that process up.
 

rathi

Count Smackula
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
7,890
Reaction score
4,730
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How many Canadians have ever been killed by religiously motivated Islamic terrorism? The answer is zero. That compares rather badly to the thousands of Canadians sterilized by government Eugenics boards which existed up until 1972. Shariah law in Canada is a joke, Quebec being a Catholic theocracy is a matter of historical fact. Unpopular minorities aren't dangerous, the people who scapegoat them are.
 

MMC

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
56,981
Reaction score
27,029
Location
Chicago Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
A War against Islam has not yet begun.....when it does. One thing is clear.....you will hear their Cry.
 

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Yes they are, Islam as many divisions each differing on what being a Muslim includes. Those that want to come to Western countries are those who are Muslims but do not follow extremist interpretations. They are progressively becoming more and more Liberal. The extremists make up .001% of the Muslim immigrants. If we are going to forbid Muslims form immigrating because of a very few extremists, we should stop Jews aswell because ultra-orthodox Jews do the same things.

Want to back up that claim by facts about ultra orthodox Jews committing/plotting terrorist activities in the West?
Of murdering young women in honor killing?

Thank you.
 

[]D e e v e s

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
163
Reaction score
31
Location
Niagara region, Canada near USA border.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
How many Canadians have ever been killed by religiously motivated Islamic terrorism? The answer is zero. That compares rather badly to the thousands of Canadians sterilized by government Eugenics boards which existed up until 1972. Shariah law in Canada is a joke, Quebec being a Catholic theocracy is a matter of historical fact. Unpopular minorities aren't dangerous, the people who scapegoat them are.

Those peaceful secular' moderate' Muslims that certainly do exist in Canada and elsewhere fear the fundamentalists and Islamists as much as any other if not more so. They fear to speak out against radical elements except in rare cases. But there are thankfully those that do.

Then there are those like the Khadrs, Canadians that attacked our allies.

There are those imprisoned even here in Canada that plotted terrorist bombings here and others have suceeded elsewhere Spain-Britain etc.
Some being born in the country attacked.


This is 2013, not the 70's, the sterilized referenced is hardly on point and the Provincial NDP under Rae did lean to Sharia.

Certainly simply being a minority is not unusual in Canada given our eclectic citizenry.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
15,826
Reaction score
7,374
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Really, already finding out that some of the muslims from the Kenya attack lived in the US.

They were probably born in the U.S. radicalized over the internet and went to Somalia like all the other similar cases of this.
 

CRUE CAB

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
16,763
Reaction score
4,344
Location
Melbourne Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
They were probably born in the U.S. radicalized over the internet and went to Somalia like all the other similar cases of this.

So US born Muslims are not real muslims? How about the Boston Bomber kids. Where were they born?
 

Dr. Chuckles

King Conspiratard
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
12,895
Reaction score
2,909
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Well I guarantee 99.99% of the Muslims who want to immigrate are not fanatical Muslims.

actually Europe seems to have a pretty clear problem with fundamentalism in it's immigrant community. Not sure why anyone would ignore that, I don't know
 

Dr. Chuckles

King Conspiratard
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
12,895
Reaction score
2,909
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Yes they are, Islam as many divisions each differing on what being a Muslim includes. Those that want to come to Western countries are those who are Muslims but do not follow extremist interpretations.

lol, dude ...


<<<The complex new laws are expected to be implemented swiftly. Officials of both the federal and state governments have already been compiling blacklists of Islamic fundamentalists for weeks. In what officials derisively refer to as "Project Cleanup," Germany's state interior ministers intend to address all of the troublesome cases with which they, as an official in the Interior Ministry of the state of North Rhine-Westphalia says, "have been burdened since Sept. 11, 2001." They include suspected terrorists such as the defendants in the Düsseldorf Tawhid trial, Afghan Islamic fundamentalists the Germans would like to see sent home, and smugglers and imams such as Salem Al-Rafei, who preaches at Berlin's Al-Nur mosque. "Those who reject Western society and believe it to be ruled by the devil," says Ehrhart Körting, a member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and a senator in Berlin's interior ministry, "should leave this country.">>>

Islamic Fundamentalism: Germany's 'Project Cleanup' Could Deport Hundreds of Radical Muslims - SPIEGEL ONLINE
 

Dr. Chuckles

King Conspiratard
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
12,895
Reaction score
2,909
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I suspect the vast majority of Muslims wanting to immigrate to the USA, as well as those who have already immigrated, are trying to get away from the fanatics in their own countries and want only to live in peace.

It really depends. We don't have the same issues as europe because we're not importing a bunch of ignorant dung farmers from the backwaters of Pakistan, and most immagrants from those regions, looking to america, are usually looking for economic opportunity and a more stable political situation. But we do have some brewing issues in the communities that tend to be comprised of refugees, like the Somalis.
 

washunut

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
12,592
Reaction score
3,785
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Yes they are, Islam as many divisions each differing on what being a Muslim includes. Those that want to come to Western countries are those who are Muslims but do not follow extremist interpretations. They are progressively becoming more and more Liberal. The extremists make up .001% of the Muslim immigrants. If we are going to forbid Muslims form immigrating because of a very few extremists, we should stop Jews aswell because ultra-orthodox Jews do the same things.

Can't let this lie go unchallenged. Please let me know when an ultra-orthodox Jew blew himself up as a suicide bomber. Plenty of Christian mass murderers in the U.S. but for some reason you chose to use Jews as your religion on choice, wonder why!
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Can't let this lie go unchallenged. Please let me know when an ultra-orthodox Jew blew himself up as a suicide bomber.

Many Jews actually did use terrorist methodology when the Brits were in charge of that area, trying to get rid of them.
 

SgtRock

Cancel Cancel Culture and Woke Supremacy
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
7,025
Reaction score
2,895
Location
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What are you people taling about Islam is a religion of peace. Christains are killing innocent non believers all over the world.
 
Top Bottom