The Virgin Birth, Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascension

[Daisy]

So were the translators who wrote the septuagint wrong in their translation by using that word adelphos?

Where were the translators who wrote it wrong in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

 

[phattonez]

Where were the translators who wrote it wrong in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

Try that again. Your question is incomprehensible.

 

[Daisy]

Try that again. Your question is incomprehensible.

They were written in Greek...pretty clear what they meant...

 

[phattonez]

They were written in Greek...pretty clear what they meant...

The Septuagint translators took the Hebrew Bible and translated it into Greek. They used the word adelphos to describe Lot, Abraham's nephew. Did they use the wrong word?

 

[Daisy]

So were the translators who wrote the septuagint wrong in their translation by using that word adelphos?

Yes, I believe so, considering brother in Greek is αδερφός and brother in Hebrew is אח, whereas cousin in Greek is ξάδελφος and cousin in Hebrew is דוד...yet the Hebrew septuagint uses the word אֶת for cousin when it should be דוד...so yes, they used brother when it should have been cousin...in truth, Lot was neither Abraham's brother or cousin but Abraham's nephew, so nephew/האחיין would be the most accurate word used...

"This is the history of Terah. Terah became father to Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran became father to Lot.+" Genesis 11:27

 

[phattonez]

Yes, I believe so, [/URL]

What's more likely? That you know better than professional translators who spoke the Greek of the time as a primary language? Or that adelphoi can mean more than just brothers? Put your hubris down for a second and the answer is obvious.

 

[Daisy]

What's more likely? That you know better than professional translators who spoke the Greek of the time as a primary language? Or that adelphoi can mean more than just brothers? Put your hubris down for a second and the answer is obvious.

Well, I do know what the definition is and we covered it many posts ago...I'll remind you again...it can mean either fleshly or spiritually...taking other scriptures into context, particularly Matthew 1:25..."But he did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son,+ and he named him Jesus.+"...I will continue to believe Mary had other children...

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
6. brethren in Christ
   1. his brothers by blood
   2. all men
   3. apostles
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/adelphos.html

Oh, and since you didn't catch my mistake earlier, I'd like to correct myself...Greek for nephew is ανιψιός...sorry about that...

 

[phattonez]

Well, I do know what the definition is and we covered it many posts ago...I'll remind you again...it can mean either fleshly or spiritually...taking other scriptures into context, particularly Matthew 1:25..."But he did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son,+ and he named him Jesus.+"...I will continue to believe Mary had other children...

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
6. brethren in Christ
   1. his brothers by blood
   2. all men
   3. apostles
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/adelphos.html

Oh, and since you didn't catch my mistake earlier, I'd like to correct myself...Greek for nephew is ανιψιός...sorry about that...

So since we've settled that it isn't definitive, and that "until" doesn't necessitate a change, then can you answer why Mary was confused when the angel said she would have a son, and why Zechariah was punished for asking basically the same question that Mary did?

 

[Daisy]

and that "until" doesn't necessitate a change, then can you answer why Mary was confused when the angel said she would have a son, and why Zechariah was punished for asking basically the same question that Mary did?

Wrong, we have established no such thing...Mary was confused because she knew she was a virgin...not rocket science...different motives were involved, besides, Mary was a young girl, Zechariah was an old man, who should've known better than to question God...

 

[OlNate]

The Scriptures bear witness to the fact that God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, separate and distinct from anyone else, and that Jesus, even in his pre-human existence, is also separate and distinct, a created being, subordinate to God...Jesus is a separate creation.. it was by means of this master worker, his junior partner, that Almighty God created all other things...

"there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him." 1 Corinthians 8:6

Heya, Lady... Treading carefully here, because of regrettable clashes in the past... I'm not at all debating you with this question, I'll make that clear, I'm asking to try to understand your point of view.

How do the JW view Christ? Like, what is he? He's more than a man, that's clear from his miracles and his ascension without human death...but he's not a god, in the eyes of the JW. He's not an angel... What would you say he is?

And, if he's not equal, why was he given the authority to declare our sins forgiven? How did his ordeal on the cross achieve that blanket salvation that is available to all who have faith?

As I read this back, these questions do, indeed, appear to be combative, but I promise they're not. I'm just asking for an "in a nutshell" (if that's possible) explanation of the JW point of view on these issues. If there isn't one, that's ok...they're big questions. But you guys do seem to be deep thinkers, I would be more surprised if there were no answers to these questions than if there are...

 

[Daisy]

Heya, Lady... Treading carefully here, because of regrettable clashes in the past... I'm not at all debating you with this question, I'll make that clear, I'm asking to try to understand your point of view.

How do the JW view Christ? Like, what is he? He's more than a man, that's clear from his miracles and his ascension without human death...but he's not a god, in the eyes of the JW. He's not an angel... What would you say he is?

And, if he's not equal, why was he given the authority to declare our sins forgiven? How did his ordeal on the cross achieve that blanket salvation that is available to all who have faith?

As I read this back, these questions do, indeed, appear to be combative, but I promise they're not. I'm just asking for an "in a nutshell" (if that's possible) explanation of the JW point of view on these issues. If there isn't one, that's ok...they're big questions. But you guys do seem to be deep thinkers, I would be more surprised if there were no answers to these questions than if there are...

So many questions, Nate, and some of them are very deep...lol...we believe Jesus is exactly who he claimed to be...God's Son, never did he claim to be God...he had a pre-human existence as God's master worker, working alongside God...

"Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago." Proverbs 8:22

"Then I was beside him as a master worker.+
I was the one he was especially fond of+ day by day;
I rejoiced before him all the time;+" Proverbs 8:30

The Bible also tells us that in Jesus' pre-human life, he cared for mankind, so why wouldn't he be given the privilege of rescuing us from our sinful state by his Father?

"I rejoiced over his habitable earth,
And I was especially fond of the sons of men.*" Proverbs 8:31

And yes, we do believe that in Jesus' heavenly life, he could very well be Michael, the Archangel, that the Bible speaks of because of how Paul describes him...

"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s+ voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.+" 1 Thessalonians 4:16

Paul also calls Jesus the firstborn of all creation and that all things were created through him and for him in Colossians 1:15,16...all of Jesus' strength and power is from Jehovah God, he cannot do a single thing by his own power...Jesus is granted the power he has from God...

“Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.+ For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner." John 5:19

Here is a short video you may be interested in, entitled "Is Jesus God"...

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODBibleTeachings/pub-ebtv_2_VIDEO

 

[phattonez]

Wrong, we have established no such thing...Mary was confused because she knew she was a virgin...not rocket science...different motives were involved, besides, Mary was a young girl, Zechariah was an old man, who should've known better than to question God...

A virgin who fully intends to have sex with her husband would have no question as to how she would get pregnant.

Zechariah had an old wife. Old wives don't tend to get pregnant.

 

[Paralogic]

Something that is very frustrating when I talk to people who are not Christians about Jesus is they deny the fact - one that archaeologists and different theologians have found compelling evidence of - Jesus rose from the dead three days after he was crucified . . .

That's not facts, that's wishful thinking, otherwise known as mental onanism.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

That's not facts, that's wishful thinking, otherwise known as mental onanism.

How do you know it is not a fact?