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The Viability of Socialism

Is Socialism Viable

  • Yes it can be implemented in a society

    Votes: 21 26.3%
  • Yes it can be implemented but with only a certain mentality

    Votes: 8 10.0%
  • No it is a ludicrous pipe dream

    Votes: 37 46.3%
  • No the mentality isn't compatible

    Votes: 14 17.5%

  • Total voters
    80

Fritz

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I know that there are a lot of you who believe that Socialism is a ludicrous pipe dream, but I disagree.
I think that Socialism can be viable if it is gradually implemented and the people are educated in the pros and cons of the system.
If you think about it, Socialism is a system dedicated to the rights of workers and economic/social equality. It also emphasizes government regulation and workers cooperatives, and it sets up universal healthcare and public colleges.

If you are against Socialism, express your deal breaker calmly and explain. I know this stuff causes tempers to flair, so let's try to have a pleasant debate.
 

TurtleDude

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I know that there are a lot of you who believe that Socialism is a ludicrous pipe dream, but I disagree.
I think that Socialism can be viable if it is gradually implemented and the people are educated in the pros and cons of the system.
If you think about it, Socialism is a system dedicated to the rights of workers and economic/social equality. It also emphasizes government regulation and workers cooperatives, and it sets up universal healthcare and public colleges.

If you are against Socialism, express your deal breaker calmly and explain. I know this stuff causes tempers to flair, so let's try to have a pleasant debate.

socialism in its extreme runs contrary to human nature. It also violates much of the constitution. Most people will not work harder so that others can get more and more without contributing.

on a more visceral level-Dame Thatcher's comments were appropriate-the problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples' money.
 

Fritz

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socialism in its extreme runs contrary to human nature. It also violates much of the constitution. Most people will not work harder so that others can get more and more without contributing.

on a more visceral level-Dame Thatcher's comments were appropriate-the problem with socialism is that you run out of other peoples' money.

However, Socialism in the right atmosphere will be very effective for a society. You think?
 

SCitizen

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100% Yes to Scandinavian Socialism.

100% No to Totalitarianism.
 

TurtleDude

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However, Socialism in the right atmosphere will be very effective for a society. You think?

I don't have much use for any version of socialism myself but of course the real problem is how you define it
 

TurtleDude

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100% Yes to Scandinavian Socialism.

100% No to Totalitarianism.

Why don't you move there if its so great? its amusing how high the suicide rate is in those socialist paradises
 

Harshaw

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However, Socialism in the right atmosphere will be very effective for a society. You think?

No. Socialism (and I assume you're talking about real socialism, and not welfare capitalism, which is what too many people seem to think socialism is) always leads to authoritarianism, and then totalitarianism. It does so because it's contrary to human nature, and the people who don't want to go along with it will need to be controlled, or otherwise dealt with.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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Workers "enjoy" work for the sake of their own opportunity. They couldn't care less if the operation is inefficient or wasteful, so long as they are getting theirs. Their opportunity extends as far as their own hours and pay, regardless of the government system.

In a socialist system, the only controls in place are those by the workers themselves (who don't care about efficiency so long as they get theirs), or the government who are, again, made up of people who worry about getting theirs.

The difference between capitalistic and socialist systems is that capitalists have inherent motives to do things "better". But capitalism suffers from stratified corruption... whereas socialism suffers from concentrated corruption, at least as every time we've seen it played out.
 

Verax

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I'd prefer what we are doing now compared to full on socialism, I don't think it works very well. I think the most reasonable approach is social democracy but to not go beyond that. Social democracy allows people to build their dreams in a freeish capitalist society while lessening the negative impact on the lower classes which are often unfairly picked on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
 

reinoe

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However, Socialism in the right atmosphere will be very effective for a society. You think?

Define "the right atmosphere"? Such a system doesn't exist until we reach Star Trek levels of advancement. When people work for the sake of gooodness: yes. When people work to feed themselves and they're families, there's only so much altruism to go around.

Even "SCANDINAVIAN STYLE SOCIALISM" benefits from non-stop U.S. babysitting of European military affairs.
 

apdst

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I'd prefer what we are doing now compared to full on socialism, I don't think it works very well. I think the most reasonable approach is social democracy but to not go beyond that. Social democracy allows people to build their dreams in a freeish capitalist society while lessening the negative impact on the lower classes which are often unfairly picked on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

There's no such thing as "freeish". There is free and not free.
 

apdst

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Define "the right atmosphere"? Such a system doesn't exist until we reach Star Trek levels of advancement. When people work for the sake of gooodness: yes. When people work to feed themselves and they're families, there's only so much altruism to go around.

Even "SCANDINAVIAN STYLE SOCIALISM" benefits from non-stop U.S. babysitting of European military affairs.

On Star Trek, everyone has a job and pulls their own wait.
 

DaveFagan

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Workers "enjoy" work for the sake of their own opportunity. They couldn't care less if the operation is inefficient or wasteful, so long as they are getting theirs. Their opportunity extends as far as their own hours and pay, regardless of the government system.

In a socialist system, the only controls in place are those by the workers themselves (who don't care about efficiency so long as they get theirs), or the government who are, again, made up of people who worry about getting theirs.

The difference between capitalistic and socialist systems is that capitalists have inherent motives to do things "better". But capitalism suffers from stratified corruption... whereas socialism suffers from concentrated corruption, at least as every time we've seen it played out.

I disagree. When US Capitalism began, no one could have predicted the current Corporatism. It did not have to develop in this horrid fashion. The same can be said for Socialism. Socialilsm is a death knell for Corporatism ergo the Corporatism controlled MSM paints an atrocious picture of Socialism. It may or may not be a good thing depending on the leadership. Pretty much the same as Capitalism's developments. As regards corruption, when a Nation makes war a business to benefit the War Profiteers, the corruption is palpable. When Corporate Welfare becomes the byword and action of our legislators, the corruption is palpable. When the People have to eat the toxic bank mortgage loans and the bankers get fat, the corruption is palpable. Privatize profits and socialize liabilities. I don't recall reading that in any of the Founding Father's papers.
/
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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Define "the right atmosphere"? Such a system doesn't exist until we reach Star Trek levels of advancement. When people work for the sake of gooodness: yes. When people work to feed themselves and they're families, there's only so much altruism to go around.

Even "SCANDINAVIAN STYLE SOCIALISM" benefits from non-stop U.S. babysitting of European military affairs.

The Star Trek universe had replicators. Which means the Star Trek universe was free from scarcity.

We are not free from scarcity, and that is why socialism won't work (for the foreseeable future).
 

Eric7216

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I tend to agree with TurtleDude. Socialism seems contrary to science-the behavioral sciences of sociology, psychology, and economics. Human nature tends to lean toward power and control and putting too much power in the hands of people who don't have a counterbalance can be very dangerous. A business person will try to maximize his profit or his power but the government is there to act as a counter balance and control him at some point. If the government both controls business and regulates business the same person/people are on the same side.

It may give the appearance of working in a place like Scandinavia but remember those countries have an extremely strong social/cultural bond with same race, history, language, and religion. Doubt that would work in a multi-cultural society in which the main elements actually hate each other.
Perhaps Obama said it best when he said "FedEx and UPS work fine, it is the USPS that struggles." A major problem today is high paid public employee unions that put the betterment of society in a subordinate position.

Separation of powers seems to work fairly well in government and in society as a whole. In socialism, there is reduced likelihood of balance and too much power to government.
 

Gonzo Rodeo

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I disagree. When US Capitalism began, no one could have predicted the current Corporatism. It did not have to develop in this horrid fashion. The same can be said for Socialism. Socialilsm is a death knell for Corporatism ergo the Corporatism controlled MSM paints an atrocious picture of Socialism. It may or may not be a good thing depending on the leadership. Pretty much the same as Capitalism's developments. As regards corruption, when a Nation makes war a business to benefit the War Profiteers, the corruption is palpable. When Corporate Welfare becomes the byword and action of our legislators, the corruption is palpable. When the People have to eat the toxic bank mortgage loans and the bankers get fat, the corruption is palpable. Privatize profits and socialize liabilities. I don't recall reading that in any of the Founding Father's papers.
/

I suppose Marx couldn't have predicted the rise of the Communist Party and all of the elitism enjoyed by a selected few.

As it turns out, people are pretty ****ty to one another on the whole. At least under a capitalist system, there remains an incentive to do things "better": the profit motive.

But you are absolutely correct, corruption can definitely be seen when the private sector hops into a public issue in the pursuit of public funds.... the only problem is that EVERY issue in a socialistic system is a public issue, i.e. it's all public money. What stops people under socialism from pursuing that money as they do under capitalism? Not a god damn thing, that's what.
 

Surrealistik

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I know that there are a lot of you who believe that Socialism is a ludicrous pipe dream, but I disagree.
I think that Socialism can be viable if it is gradually implemented and the people are educated in the pros and cons of the system.
If you think about it, Socialism is a system dedicated to the rights of workers and economic/social equality. It also emphasizes government regulation and workers cooperatives, and it sets up universal healthcare and public colleges.

If you are against Socialism, express your deal breaker calmly and explain. I know this stuff causes tempers to flair, so let's try to have a pleasant debate.

It depends: what manner of socialism?
 

Abbazorkzog

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The only form of Socialism I am fully okay with is Social Libertarianism.
 

SCitizen

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Why don't you move there if its so great? its amusing how high the suicide rate is in those socialist paradises

I have support for my disability. In USA, tens of millions of disabled people are not supported or have little support. In Scandinavia, all people who can not earn get assistance.
 

SCitizen

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I know that there are a lot of you who believe that Socialism is a ludicrous pipe dream, but I disagree.

Definitely it has been built in Scandinavia -- thus it can be built.

Nevertheless, Totalitarianism is a bad idea. It failed in USSR and China.
 

TurtleDude

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I have support for my disability. In USA, tens of millions of disabled people are not supported or have little support. In Scandinavia, all people who can not earn get assistance.

so why do others have a duty to take care of you? why subsidize sloth and a lack of effort?
 

CaptainCourtesy

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so why do others have a duty to take care of you? why subsidize sloth and a lack of effort?

You do understand that being disabled in no way equals sloth or lack of effort. This was a really dumb statement, turtle.
 

joG

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I know that there are a lot of you who believe that Socialism is a ludicrous pipe dream, but I disagree.
I think that Socialism can be viable if it is gradually implemented and the people are educated in the pros and cons of the system.
If you think about it, Socialism is a system dedicated to the rights of workers and economic/social equality. It also emphasizes government regulation and workers cooperatives, and it sets up universal healthcare and public colleges.

If you are against Socialism, express your deal breaker calmly and explain. I know this stuff causes tempers to flair, so let's try to have a pleasant debate.

The "deal breaker" is mostly in the pricing system and the vested interest of the decision makers that rely on political and not economic goals. This reduces efficiency and lands the country on an unsustainable pathway.
 
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