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The Vatican

kal-el

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As Pope John Paul was lying unconscience, wasn't it symbolic of the church itself, a dying vestige of the past, definetly out of place in the 20th century?
Now we have Pope Benedict, he is leading a neuro-degenarative church. Him and John Paul have been great examples of hipocracy, following in the church's tradition of condenming any new advance in science, but John Paul used all possible medical treatment which only yesterday was condenmed by his predecessor. The inquisition who burned midwives as witches in the 1500s would have condenmed John Paul for his hospitalization as surely as he condenmed tomorrow's stem cell medicine.

If it had not been for the Vatican, medical science would be much more advanced today, we might already have the cures to cancer, AIDS, and all ills. The blind would be able to see and the lame would walk as Jesus predicted. The truth is that the Vatican hindered medicine every step of the way, right from the beginning.

And yet the hypocrite did everything he could do to benefit from today's medicine to prolong his own life!
 

Naughty Nurse

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Hypocricy from the Vatican? Business as usual, then!
 

Windy

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kal-el said:
As Pope John Paul was lying unconscience, wasn't it symbolic of the church itself, a dying vestige of the past, definetly out of place in the 20th century?
Now we have Pope Benedict, he is leading a neuro-degenarative church. Him and John Paul have been great examples of hipocracy, following in the church's tradition of condenming any new advance in science, but John Paul used all possible medical treatment which only yesterday was condenmed by his predecessor. The inquisition who burned midwives as witches in the 1500s would have condenmed John Paul for his hospitalization as surely as he condenmed tomorrow's stem cell medicine.

If it had not been for the Vatican, medical science would be much more advanced today, we might already have the cures to cancer, AIDS, and all ills. The blind would be able to see and the lame would walk as Jesus predicted. The truth is that the Vatican hindered medicine every step of the way, right from the beginning.

And yet the hypocrite did everything he could do to benefit from today's medicine to prolong his own life!
If you are not a Catholic what does it matter to you ?
 

shuamort

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Windy said:
If you are not a Catholic what does it matter to you ?
Because the RCC chooses to wield its power over the ignorant in the world. It's not like they don't go out and attempt to proselytize and force their beliefs down others' throats.
 

Windy

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shuamort said:
Because the RCC chooses to wield its power over the ignorant in the world. It's not like they don't go out and attempt to proselytize and force their beliefs down others' throats.
I am shocked are you calling all Catholics Ignorant ??:shock:
 

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shuamort said:
Yes. Yes I am.
Then you shock me further for I thought you were better than that..
:(
 

shuamort

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Windy said:
Then you shock me further for I thought you were better than that..
:(
Believing that 1)there is a god 2) that he speaks through an elected conduit only 3)that that conduit is infallible, is a hat trick of ignorance.
 

Windy

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shuamort said:
Believing that 1)there is a god 2) that he speaks through an elected conduit only 3)that that conduit is infallible, is a hat trick of ignorance.
I always thought you were tolerant .
1. I know through personal experience that there is a GOD .
2. I know that no-one is infallible .
As a satanist I experienced Power you could never dream of unless you were a Satanist..
Because I am saying this now other satanists will be cursing me for even
talking to you about it .
The only thing that keeps me going is the sure knowledge that GOD exists
You will never knock anybodies belief in JESUS who truly believes
because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is there.
Its simplistic but its true ..
Dont knock it until you try it ..
I will not speak on this subject again .
 

shuamort

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Windy said:
I always thought you were tolerant .
1. I know through personal experience that there is a GOD .
2. I know that no-one is infallible .
As a satanist I experienced Power you could never dream of unless you were a Satanist..
Because I am saying this now other satanists will be cursing me for even
talking to you about it .
The only thing that keeps me going is the sure knowledge that GOD exists
You will never knock anybodies belief in JESUS who truly believes
because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is there.
Its simplistic but its true ..
Dont knock it until you try it ..
I will not speak on this subject again .
I have no tolerance for willfull ignorance. I have no tolerance for racism, sexism, or any other false belief systems not grounded in reality.
 

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shuamort said:
I have no tolerance for willfull ignorance. I have no tolerance for racism, sexism, or any other false belief systems not grounded in reality.
As I said before shuamort no-one is infallible ; and the longer I live , the more I know that there are more things in this world that we cannnot comprehend .
Our lives are full of crap , and spirituality is often sidelined as a thing
for cranks .
Go to India and tell me the things you see are figment of your imagination .
If you had said the things you said to me a few years ago believe
me you would have had big trouble on your hands ..
The one thing that keeps me from cursing you according to you ; is my stupid belief in a ficticious GOD .
That will make my ex mates happy ...I told you I will say no more on this subject
 

kal-el

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Hipocracy and mystification have lasted long enough. The Church, using truthful messages as their basis, temples were built were people could worship worthless pieces of wood or metal, and living in misplaced luxury and using people's fear to achieve their own ends. Wars were even waged under the pretext of spreading these biblical messages abroad.

There are now hardly any students left in the Roman Catholic seminaries where preists are trained. But there are some unhappy people who feel they have to spread love and open peoples' minds. Fifty years ago there were 50,000 seminarists undergoing training at any one time, but now there are only about 500. This means that there are at least 49,500 unhappy people who do not feel attracted to a church shrouded with crimes and darkness.

Don't forget that the Vatican has condenmed every new scientific discovery. Not only did it condemn Copernicus and Galileo when they demonstrated that the earth is not the center of the universe, but Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for saying there was life on other planets. Also, the first people to eat with forks were excommunicated, since food being "God's gift", should only be touched by hand! We must'nt forget the steam engine, electricity, and so on, not to mention contraception and abortion of course.

So you see, the Pope is always faithful to the long Catholic tradition of being against all progress! It is important that we understand this hipocracy.
 

KevinWan

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kal-el said:
Hipocracy and mystification have lasted long enough. The Church, using truthful messages as their basis, temples were built were people could worship worthless pieces of wood or metal, and living in misplaced luxury and using people's fear to achieve their own ends. Wars were even waged under the pretext of spreading these biblical messages abroad.

There are now hardly any students left in the Roman Catholic seminaries where preists are trained. But there are some unhappy people who feel they have to spread love and open peoples' minds. Fifty years ago there were 50,000 seminarists undergoing training at any one time, but now there are only about 500. This means that there are at least 49,500 unhappy people who do not feel attracted to a church shrouded with crimes and darkness.

Don't forget that the Vatican has condenmed every new scientific discovery. Not only did it condemn Copernicus and Galileo when they demonstrated that the earth is not the center of the universe, but Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for saying there was life on other planets. Also, the first people to eat with forks were excommunicated, since food being "God's gift", should only be touched by hand! We must'nt forget the steam engine, electricity, and so on, not to mention contraception and abortion of course.

So you see, the Pope is always faithful to the long Catholic tradition of being against all progress! It is important that we understand this hipocracy.
Why is the Church losing membership/ordinations? I think it has to do with the LIBERALISATION of the Church under the Vatican II Council. What this did was make the Church less strict in its interpretation, and more and more like your typical Protestant churches. Many people like the conservative option that was held in the Catholic Church. That no longer there to a great degree... so people lose faith. The Church used to not allow meat to be eaten on Fridays, Mass was not allowed on Saturdays, Priests spoke only in Latin and faced the alter, not the audience when speaking. This is dramatically different from other Christian churches. With this gone, what makes it any more appealing than Protestant or other Christian religions??

Another signifigant difference between Catholic clergy and Protestant clergy is the level of living entirely with God. Catholic priests/bishops etc. do not marry, and devout EVERY minute of their lives to God. Many priests, including my own do not have a bank account and OWN NOTHING... except for what the Church provides them with. My priest is always praying with the sick, visiting nursing homes, funerals, he brings food to peoples homes to be blessed, etc etc. Protestant pastors OWN BUSINESSES, have families, get married, HAVE A BANK ACCOUNT... They live too much in the materialistic world. This staunch difference between the Churches was eroded with Vatican II. A good amount of people like having a Priest that is truely spiritual and lives his life FOR God, not just a Pastor whos your typical kind of guy... This is why Catholic clergy doesn't accept new inovations... they are devoted ONLY to the spiritual aspect to find salvation for all peoples... they do not acknowledge advancing the material world to solve the woes of society.. aka reality.
 

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People under the constraints of the Church, which is fossilized and encrusted with crimes and criminal inquisitions thousands of years old, are IMO, among those who would have crucified Jesus if you had lived in his time. Yet now you want to see members of your family born, get married and die under his image because this has become part of your morals and customs. Behaving like those who went to watch the lions devouring the first Christians, you also direct ironic smiles at those who dare challenge the Church, saying that they should be placed in a mental institution. Nowadays, when someone has disturbing ideas, he is not crucified or fed to an animal- that is far to barbaric, instead these people are sent to a mental institution. Had these establishments existed 2,000 years ago, Jesus and those who followed him, would definetly have been put there.

So now, people who are presently members of the Church, you should take off those clothes that are as sad as their color, the color of crimes that have been committed wearing them.
 

kal-el

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Another example of the Pope's hipocritical nature is his continuing insistance of teaching reproduction (go forth and multiply), but condenming both contraception and abortion despite the apparent fact that we are already 6 billion strong, with a huge problem arising of overpopulation. But, because of tradition, Pope after Pope continues to spit out this same line, sounding like a dam parrot. Of course, this message was relevant a few thousand years ago, when it was necessary to populate the Earth, but now, it is counter-productive. But, he can't say different since it's in the Bible. Even if we reached 100 billion people, with everyone forced to live on 3 artificial surface layers, contaminated with disease ridden fumes from tons of human feces, the Pope would still repeat the same worn-out line of "Go forth and multiply", that is, unless he is willing to change his holy writings.
 

KevinWan

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kal-el said:
Another example of the Pope's hipocritical nature is his continuing insistance of teaching reproduction (go forth and multiply), but condenming both contraception and abortion despite the apparent fact that we are already 6 billion strong, with a huge problem arising of overpopulation. But, because of tradition, Pope after Pope continues to spit out this same line, sounding like a dam parrot. Of course, this message was relevant a few thousand years ago, when it was necessary to populate the Earth, but now, it is counter-productive. But, he can't say different since it's in the Bible. Even if we reached 100 billion people, with everyone forced to live on 3 artificial surface layers, contaminated with disease ridden fumes from tons of human feces, the Pope would still repeat the same worn-out line of "Go forth and multiply", that is, unless he is willing to change his holy writings.
The Church is a religous and spiritual institution - reality has no relevence. The Church will continue to condemn abortion and contraception because it is a roadblock to life - LIFE is the GIFT OF GOD. That is a primary teaching of the Church; one which it cannot suddenly reject simply because the world is overpopulated. The Church gives an entirely spiritual message, it tells to do many things which are at or near impossible. Loving every single person on the planet... forgiving serial killers, assassins, rapists, TERRORISTS. Thats what the Church wants and, call me a heretic, but I'm not forgiving any terrorists any time soon. The Church will never be in-step with reality, and nor should it be.
 

kal-el

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KevinWan said:
The Church is a religous and spiritual institution - reality has no relevence. The Church will continue to condemn abortion and contraception because it is a roadblock to life - LIFE is the GIFT OF GOD. That is a primary teaching of the Church; one which it cannot suddenly reject simply because the world is overpopulated. The Church gives an entirely spiritual message, it tells to do many things which are at or near impossible. Loving every single person on the planet... forgiving serial killers, assassins, rapists, TERRORISTS. Thats what the Church wants and, call me a heretic, but I'm not forgiving any terrorists any time soon. The Church will never be in-step with reality, and nor should it be.
I actually agree with you on this, yea, the Church and the Pope especially, seem to be cut off from reality,and you're right, reality apparently, has no relevance.
 

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kal-el said:
I actually agree with you on this, yea, the Church and the Pope especially, seem to be cut off from reality,and you're right, reality apparently, has no relevance.
I'm glad we agree... however, I'm saying the lack of reality is a good thing... I get the feeling your not agreeing with that. (??)
 

kal-el

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KevinWan said:
I'm glad we agree... however, I'm saying the lack of reality is a good thing... I get the feeling your not agreeing with that. (??)
Actually no, I do not agree that that is a good thing. The Pope continues to preach out-dated messages that have no merit in today's society. Isn't it true that Jesus said something like if your right hand sins, cut it off. Please, that is far to barberic for today's society. It might have held some merit a couple thousand years ago.

I believe churches are nothing but wood monuments built by primitive people. In St.Peter's Square, the Pope is wallowing in misplaced luxury, and using people's fear to achieve his own ends. It is fact that so many wars are waged under the pretext of spreading these Biblical messages abroad. The poor people's money is being used to build a financial power base, love for one's neighbor has been preached with weapon in hand, human equality has been preached while at the same time, supporting dictatorships, and "God is with us" was said to encourage people to launch wars. This is a great shame to the Scriptures, and the ultimate hipocracy committed by the Pope.

Here's some excellent examples of the Church's hipocracy:

Matthew 19:23
Then Jesus said unto his desciples, verily I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Please, do you think that the Vatican would place all their riches at a returning Christ's disposal? I think they would indeed have trouble recognizing someone more "infallible" than the pontiff.

Matthew 23:8-11
...For you have one master, and you are all brothers. Do not call any man on earth "father," for you have one father, and he is in heaven. Nor must you be called "teacher," you have one teacher, the Christ. But the greatest among you must be your servant.
This is all written in their own Gospels. Why can they speak of goodness while living in luxury in the Vatican? Everyday, people are dying of hunger, how can they seek invitations and honors while preaching humility? Lastly, how dare they ask people to call them "Father" or "Your Holiness", while they're very own Gospels expressly forbid this?
 

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kal-el said:
Actually no, I do not agree that that is a good thing. The Pope continues to preach out-dated messages that have no merit in today's society. Isn't it true that Jesus said something like if your right hand sins, cut it off. Please, that is far to barberic for today's society. It might have held some merit a couple thousand years ago.

I believe churches are nothing but wood monuments built by primitive people. In St.Peter's Square, the Pope is wallowing in misplaced luxury, and using people's fear to achieve his own ends. It is fact that so many wars are waged under the pretext of spreading these Biblical messages abroad. The poor people's money is being used to build a financial power base, love for one's neighbor has been preached with weapon in hand, human equality has been preached while at the same time, supporting dictatorships, and "God is with us" was said to encourage people to launch wars. This is a great shame to the Scriptures, and the ultimate hipocracy committed by the Pope.

Here's some excellent examples of the Church's hipocracy:



Please, do you think that the Vatican would place all their riches at a returning Christ's disposal? I think they would indeed have trouble recognizing someone more "infallible" than the pontiff.



This is all written in their own Gospels. Why can they speak of goodness while living in luxury in the Vatican? Everyday, people are dying of hunger, how can they seek invitations and honors while preaching humility? Lastly, how dare they ask people to call them "Father" or "Your Holiness", while they're very own Gospels expressly forbid this?
Again, the Church does not care how outdated its messages are... it sees only the spiritual world. It doesn't care about the woes of man-made society, reality, because the Church only sees the world from an entirely religous perspective. Is this bad? No. I think this offers a unique, appealing (obviously not to you, but to some) aspect of the Church. It makes it different from Protestant religons, and other religions that accept modernity. The Catholic Church does not, it offers something more spiritual and strict compared to other religions. To some, this is a positive.

You came to too quick a conclusion in the "father" contradiction. One important aspect of the Catholic Church that makes it different from other Christian religons is its use of tradition as a source for religous teachings. The Bible and Gospel are not the only sources to find the Word of God. Jesus and his apostles called their elders and respected men FATHER... so is Jesus himself contradicting the Gospel too?? I think not. The Catholic Church has called its pastors Father for ages.. and will continue to, because of tradition.
 

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KevinWan said:
Again, the Church does not care how outdated its messages are... it sees only the spiritual world. It doesn't care about the woes of man-made society, reality, because the Church only sees the world from an entirely religous perspective. Is this bad? No. I think this offers a unique, appealing (obviously not to you, but to some) aspect of the Church. It makes it different from Protestant religons, and other religions that accept modernity. The Catholic Church does not, it offers something more spiritual and strict compared to other religions. To some, this is a positive.

You came to too quick a conclusion in the "father" contradiction. One important aspect of the Catholic Church that makes it different from other Christian religons is its use of tradition as a source for religous teachings. The Bible and Gospel are not the only sources to find the Word of God. Jesus and his apostles called their elders and respected men FATHER... so is Jesus himself contradicting the Gospel too?? I think not. The Catholic Church has called its pastors Father for ages.. and will continue to, because of tradition.
Of course they continue to propogate extremely out-dated messages, that bare no relevance to today's society. There are hundreds of worshipped God's, thousands of different religions, but at the same time, millions of lives were lost in the attempts to advance religious beliefs. The Catholic Church thinks it holds the "monopoly" on God, when in fact there are many "God's".Just to name a few religions, there is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Chinease Traditional, Primal and Indegenious, Sikhism, Yoruba, Juche, Spiritism, Judaism, Baha'I, Jainism, Shinto, Cao Dai, Tenrikyo, Neo-Paganism, Scientology, and Zoroastrianism. Allof these religions believe in a differnt "God", while a few, don't believe in "God." And all these people, who have differing views from the Roman Catholic circle, contain approx.52% of the world's population. Does itmake any sense that the Vatican continues to preach to the minority, whose views differ from the vast majority?
 

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kal-el said:
Of course they continue to propogate extremely out-dated messages, that bare no relevance to today's society. There are hundreds of worshipped God's, thousands of different religions, but at the same time, millions of lives were lost in the attempts to advance religious beliefs. The Catholic Church thinks it holds the "monopoly" on God, when in fact there are many "God's".Just to name a few religions, there is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Chinease Traditional, Primal and Indegenious, Sikhism, Yoruba, Juche, Spiritism, Judaism, Baha'I, Jainism, Shinto, Cao Dai, Tenrikyo, Neo-Paganism, Scientology, and Zoroastrianism. Allof these religions believe in a differnt "God", while a few, don't believe in "God." And all these people, who have differing views from the Roman Catholic circle, contain approx.52% of the world's population. Does itmake any sense that the Vatican continues to preach to the minority, whose views differ from the vast majority?
In the early years of the Catholic Church... indeed the Catholic Church did preach to everyone, and enforce its doctrine over others. This was when the Pope was, for all practical purposes, one of many monarchs in Europe. It had power - political, military and economic power. And during those times no one questioned the existence in God in Europe, at least not in a hugely public way. So the Church continued to preach and enforce its doctrine, which it believed was supreme.

Today, however, the Church may preach to all, but all do not listen. Most non-Catholics don't give a care at all for what the Pope or the Catholic Church has to say. The Church has little influence over non-Catholics. The Catholic Church probably does believe it holds on monopoly on God, however, what God-believing religion doesn't? Islam thinks its way of worship is the only way, so don't Jews, Protestants, etc. etc. The Catholic Church is not the only religion that believes its way of worship is RIGHT... all religions believe that.

52% isn't exactly a VAST majority... The Catholic Church is still one of the largest (potentially the largest, not sure...) religious institutions in the world. Thats not exactly giving it a minority status.
 
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Naughty Nurse said:
Hypocricy from the Vatican? Business as usual, then!
Oh yeah I forgot among the thousand other things Americans hate and must destroy...catholics are on the list too.
 
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