The USPS is more than a service. It's a symbol of a functioning society

[roguenuke]

They're better.

They're held to a better standard, if they don't produce services their customers are voluntarily willing to pay for, the customers purchase that service from somebody better.

No they're not. They refused to deliver to addresses not in Google maps despite being established for years. They utilize the USPS for various deliveries they cant or dont want to make.

The USPS has been named the best brand name in this country by at least one standard. Others put them as top government agency and 6th highest trusted business entity.. So apparently they do absolutely care, despite your failed theory that apparently only money matters.

USPS ranked fourth most trusted company

.

Survey ranks USPS as top brand

The Postal Service is the most trusted brand in the nation, a new survey has found.

www.postaltimes.com

U.S. Postal Service, Clorox, Google, UPS, Walmart Top List Of Americans' Most Essential Companies During Covid-19

/PRNewswire/ -- The Harris Poll® today released The Harris Poll Essential 100, a ranking of corporate response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Americans say 100...

www.prnewswire.com

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[newpublius]

No they're not. They refused to deliver to addresses not in Google maps despite being established for years. They utilize the USPS for various deliveries they cant or dont want to make.

They actually now piggyback on each other for 'last mile' but UPS delivers everywhere, they offer 'extended area' surcharges. (Of course you can also go to them and pick it up and I think they do PO Boxes now too)

Even if we were to say universal service obligation is important enough to subsidize (its not, but let's assume it is), that could be a standalone thing costing tens of millions instead of billions per year per the small enclaves deliveries genuinely don't go to.

 

[roguenuke]

They actually now piggyback on each other for 'last mile' but UPS delivers everywhere, they offer 'extended area' surcharges. (Of course you can also go to them and pick it up and I think they do PO Boxes now too)

Even if we were to say universal service obligation is important enough to subsidize (its not, but let's assume it is), that could be a standalone thing costing tens of millions instead of billions per year per the small enclaves deliveries genuinely don't go to.

Except that those companies do not handle things the Postal Service handles. That would absolutely change their dynamic and delivery charges as well as efficiency. And they don't handle what USPS does now and are ranked lower than USPS is in most metrics.

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[newpublius]

The USPS has been named the best brand name in this country by at least one standard. Others put them as top government agency and 6th highest trusted business entity.. So apparently they do absolutely care, despite your failed theory that apparently only money matters.

Then raise rates. All you're proving is that people receiving subsidized goods and services appreciate the subsidy. Of course they do. But the subsidy has to come from somewhere.

 

[newpublius]

Except that those companies do not handle things the Postal Service handles.

You can't blame companies for not handling things the law prevents them from handling.

The first class mail monopoly prevents competititon in that area. Outside of that service, they don't do anything that others are not willing to do.

In fact they're willing to do things USPS isn't! USPS weight limit is 70lbs. UPS is 150.

 

[roguenuke]

They actually now piggyback on each other for 'last mile' but UPS delivers everywhere, they offer 'extended area' surcharges. (Of course you can also go to them and pick it up and I think they do PO Boxes now too)

Even if we were to say universal service obligation is important enough to subsidize (its not, but let's assume it is), that could be a standalone thing costing tens of millions instead of billions per year per the small enclaves deliveries genuinely don't go to.

And yes, universal delivery is absolutely necessary. I dont even approve of gaps in the USPS but they are for more likely in for profit private companies.

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[roguenuke]

Then raise rates. All you're proving is that people receiving subsidized goods and services appreciate the subsidy. Of course they do. But the subsidy has to come from somewhere.

If rates need to be raised, it should be steadily done. But affordable service is a necessity. It should not just be the rich or well off who get to utilize the service. Most taxpayers do not mind helping to fund the USPS.

Especially given the laws we have in place to protect mail.

Top facts you should know | Postal Facts - U.S. Postal Service

facts.usps.com

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[roguenuke]

You can't blame companies for not handling things the law prevents them from handling.

The first class mail monopoly prevents competititon in that area. Outside of that service, they don't do anything that others are not willing to do.

In fact they're willing to do things USPS isn't! USPS weight limit is 70lbs. UPS is 150.

It doesnt change that they would do worse handling those things than the USPS due to the for profit private model.

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[newpublius]

And yes, universal delivery is absolutely necessary.

The USPS is not the sine qua non of delivery.

 

[newpublius]

If rates need to be raised, it should be steadily done. But affordable service is a necessity. It should not just be the rich or well off who get to utilize the service.

That's actually who you're subsidizing, you're subsidizing high volume mailers. People don't mail that much anymore. Its a small potatoes expense even for the internet averse. Its a declining industry for a reason.

Don't conflate the price that they charge with the cost. The expenses are the expenses, that is what it costs, the only question is who is paying it.

Most taxpayers do not mind helping to fund the USPS.

Yes, they do, that's why the US has massive deficits. Its because they want something and prefer NOT to pay for it.

--------------------

There is absolutely no good reason to continue this bleed. None. The country is headed straight for a fiscal debacle and everything is on the table. The postal service is low hanging fruit because instead of a bleed, it can be sold, the proceeds used elsewhere, then the resulting entity will produce taxation instead of consuming it. Even Europe is coming to this conclusion on postal services.

 

[newpublius]

$69 billion over 11 years in federal government terms isn't that large. Indeed, that's kind've part of the problem. The government doesn't care about losing $4bn dollars in a year.

But think about the opportunity cost of those funds. What else could have been invested in? Another Tesla?

We'll never know because that is 'which is unseen'

And of course right now today they will likely let it sleepwalk into the future and in ten years we're looking at another $100bn debacle of a bailout.

Its because we're making bad decisions.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) has noted about the USPS that "It's not a business, it's a service. And this whole notion that you've got to get rid of the post office because they've been losing money — the post office ain't losing money. ... You're paying for a service to keep this country together." Clyburn bashes Postal cuts: It's a service, not a business (the Hill). He's not alone in that sentiment:
The USPS is more than a service. It's a symbol of a functioning society (CNN, Opinion)

So why did I start this thread here? Because the Postal Service is a Constitutional creation. Indeed, the US Post has existed longer than the nation itself. It was one of the first "national" institutions established to separate "the colonies" from its mother country. (CNN)

When Trump (and Republicans) try to dismantle the USPS they are not just making a "business decision" - they are ****ing with the Constitution. It has been a Republican effort going back more than a decade to dismantle the Post Office, and it needs to stop. (CNN)

Why do Republicans hate the Post Office? Because of " its central role in establishing democratic ideals." Democracy, we can't have that!

I know of no republicans who hate the post office or are attempting to abolish it. It's survival is not threatened by politicians, it's threatened by modern technology and the internet. About 90% of what I used to send through the postal service, I now send through email. In the age of electronic signatures, that includes documents. and with the exception of trash pickup, I pay all of my bills online. And more then half of what I pull out of the mailbox is junk mail. For it's own long term survival, the post office will have to downsize or operate more like a business. There are many alternatives now to send a message. letter, or package.

 

[aociswundumho]

BTW in a privatized system, persons in rural locations would most likely have to go into town to GET their mail because a privatized system will not deliver to unprofitable locations

That's right, so what? If you want to live out in the boondocks, then one cost might be you have to drive into town once a week to get your mail.

All you progressives are the same - you constantly want the government to do things that aren't worth doing.

 

[NWRatCon]

The Post Office Is Always Losing Money. It’s Not Its Fault. (B

Those private services are not held to anywhere close to the same standards as the USPS.

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I have already posted some links referring to the financial difficulties those organizations have run into, and the reductions of services privatization created.

 

[roguenuke]

That's actually who you're subsidizing, you're subsidizing high volume mailers. People don't mail that much anymore. Its a small potatoes expense even for the internet averse. Its a declining industry for a reason.

Don't conflate the price that they charge with the cost. The expenses are the expenses, that is what it costs, the only question is who is paying it.




Yes, they do, that's why the US has massive deficits. Its because they want something and prefer NOT to pay for it.

--------------------

There is absolutely no good reason to continue this bleed. None. The country is headed straight for a fiscal debacle and everything is on the table. The postal service is low hanging fruit because instead of a bleed, it can be sold, the proceeds used elsewhere, then the resulting entity will produce taxation instead of consuming it. Even Europe is coming to this conclusion on postal services.

There is absolutely a good reason, we need the mail to be protected. It isnt supposed to be just a service, a business. It is supposed to be a public good.

7 Reasons Why Privatizing The Postal System Is Ridiculous And Foolish

For many reasons, an attempt to sell the U.S. Postal Service to private interests would result in disaster.

www.forbes.com

And most Americans are absolutely okay with funding the USPS.

Americans Support Postal Service Bailout, Polls Show

Trump has said he would oppose any effort to provide financial assistance to the cash-strapped agency.

www.govexec.com

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[roguenuke]

The USPS is not the sine qua non of delivery.

They are the best at it and doing it without denying service for their own interests or profit margins.

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[Helix]

But the post office will help people vote against the orange precious without contracting a serious disease during a super spreading event. Some people consider that to be bad somehow.

 

[Paradoxical]

Well for sure, they hate ANY and ALL functioning government backed goods and services altogether.
Public schools, post offices, libraries, federal tax supported highways, corrections, municipally owned utilities...they even tried privatizing fire departments in a few small towns, with disastrous results.

ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, is also bent on privatizing as much of government as possible.

We should bring back the horse and buggy and the Pony Express too. email should be heavily taxed to keep the bloated Work force and salaries and pensions of postal workers.

 

[newpublius]

They are the best at it and doing it without denying service for their own interests or profit margins.

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They're not the best at doing it. They're bleeding cash actually and they also dole out cronyist favors.

There is absolutely a good reason, we need the mail to be protected. It isnt supposed to be just a service, a business. It is supposed to be a public good.

It is not a public good in any economic sense whatsoever. See distinction between rivalrous and nonrivalrous goods.

And most Americans are absolutely okay with funding the USPS.

Problem is one of widely dispersed costs and focused benefits.

For people like you imbued with the certainty of your self-righteous design it will always be impossible to restrain from the temptation to enforce that vision upon others and thus to deprive them of the right freely to choose the good.

 

[roguenuke]

They're not the best at doing it. They're bleeding cash actually and they also dole out cronyist favors.



It is not a public good in any economic sense whatsoever. See distinction between rivalrous and nonrivalrous goods.



Problem is one of widely dispersed costs and focused benefits.

For people like you imbued with the certainty of your self-righteous design it will always be impossible to restrain from the temptation to enforce that vision upon others and thus to deprive them of the right freely to choose the good.

The public likes the USPS. It wouldn't be bleeding money if not for attempts to privatize or force it to privatize or allowances to other private services not having to meet the same requirements as the USPS.

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[newpublius]

the reductions of services privatization created.

If you reduce the subsidy for corn, there will be less corn grown.

Suppose the subsidy costs $20bn (the amount of the proposed bailout), and sure the subsidy brings money into the USPS to sustain its trade.
This is self-evident, I acknowledge it. The postal service does its thing, the mail truck comes, puts the circular in the mailbox, keeps an eye out for mean dogs, gives treats to the nice ones and he finishes the route and goes home.

All this is that which is seen.

However, this is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen.

It is not seen that the taxpayers have spent the subsidy on one thing, the taxpayers cannot spend the subsidy on another.

It is not seen that if they had not had an inefficient postal service to subsidize, they would, perhaps, have done any number of things.

 

[newpublius]

The public likes the USPS.

The public likes paying less than it costs to operate it.

It wouldn't be bleeding money if not for attempts to privatize or force it to privatize

You're just making shit up here. That isn't happening. There is no current move to privatize it at the moment

or allowances to other private services not having to meet the same requirements as the USPS.

So what's your solution here? Give the USPS a larger monopoly than just first class mail?

The requirements are to produce a service customers are willing to pay for.

They're bleeding cash because their expenses are growing faster than their revenues. Its right in the GAO report.

 

[roguenuke]

We should bring back the horse and buggy and the Pony Express too. email should be heavily taxed to keep the bloated Work force and salaries and pensions of postal workers.

Bloated work force? Wow, what crap in that statement.

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[roguenuke]

The public likes paying less than it costs to operate it.



You're just making shit up here. That isn't happening. There is no current move to privatize it at the moment



So what's your solution here? Give the USPS a larger monopoly than just first class mail?

The requirements are to produce a service customers are willing to pay for.

They're bleeding cash because their expenses are growing faster than their revenues. Its right in the GAO report.

Apparently they don't mind bailing out the USPS at much higher percentages than bailing provate corporations.

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[newpublius]

Bloated work force? Wow, what crap in that statement.

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Its right there. They're spending more on payroll to move less mail.