The USA Wants This War... So It Can Drive Russia Back to The Stone Age

[watsup]

That you fail to understand that an aggressor can also be a victim shows a breathtaking lack of understanding imo

Evidently you subscribe to the arrogant US / Western view that only they should have legitimate national security threats addressed. Like the Cuban missile crisis etc

At least the Russian concerns are credible. Yours,not so much.

There was no “aggression” towards Russia by either NATO or Ukraine, Quite the other way around. Why do you tell this constant lie?

 

[watsup]

There was no strawman.

If you don't understand that something can be both perpetraitor and victim you don't appear to have much in the way of understanding imo

lol

A "thriving democracy" where the last legitimate govt on all of Ukraine was overthrown in a coup backed by your own nation. Then the coupsters started to stick it to those that didn't accept that illegal overthrow. That" thriving democracy" ?

That " thriving democracy" that sees the far right element threaten the govt if it dare take certain steps to bring about peace in the civil war? That undermines the very platform Zelensky won on a landslide with ?

As I said , you are the one pushing western propaganda as an absolute truth here

BTW how long have you had access to Putins medical records?

You must have missed all of the " coulds" and " possiblies" in those reports

Just one lie after another after another.

 

[Questerr]

You obviously don't understand how the wars that involve official enemies are prolonged by others.

If you had read the article in the OP you would have been steered towards some other examples of the same. But that would have involved actually reading the POV of another, so no wonder you swerved it.

If Russia wanted this war to no longer be prolonged, they could end it immediately. All they have to do is retreat.

 

[oneworld2]

If Russia wanted this war to no longer be prolonged, they could end it immediately. All they have to do is retreat.

Sure Russia can end this war when it wants to but obviously there are still outstanding aims before it will end it. They will also be aware of how the US is trying to bleed Russia using Ukrainian lives to do it.

 

[ataraxia]

They never left their Cold war mentality either

I read many references to how the US wants to " bleed " Russia by using the Ukrainian people as a bulwark. It's vile but I think it is definitely the case

Putin invaded Ukraine because he supposedly wants to protect the Russian-speakers there from morally corrupt and evil western influence, like tolerance for gays, religious and ethnic minorities, pluralism, etc... With that argument, what's to keep him from invading the Baltic states? Poland? Germany? UK? USA?

Because, after all, there are Russian speakers in all those countries, and they are being forced to live under all those evil and oppressive conditions.

 

[iguanaman]

There was no strawman.

If you don't understand that something can be both perpetraitor and victim you don't appear to have much in the way of understanding imo

lol

A "thriving democracy" where the last legitimate govt on all of Ukraine was overthrown in a coup backed by your own nation. Then the coupsters started to stick it to those that didn't accept that illegal overthrow. That" thriving democracy" ?

That " thriving democracy" that sees the far right element threaten the govt if it dare take certain steps to bring about peace in the civil war? That undermines the very platform Zelensky won on a landslide with ?

As I said , you are the one pushing western propaganda as an absolute truth here

BTW how long have you had access to Putins medical records?

You must have missed all of the " coulds" and " possiblies" in those reports

More myths and propaganda are your only response? The people of Ukraine rebelled against the corrupt Russian puppet President and he fled to Russia when the Ukraine parliament scheduled a new election. Ever since the Granite revolution in 1990 the Ukrainians have been trying to lift the yoke of Russian domination from their land. They want to join the rest of Europe and that was their "sin". Are all these people in the streets of Ukraine agents of the U.S?

Why did Ukraine’s Euromaidan protests begin?​

In late November 2013, Ukrainians took to the streets in peaceful protest after then-president Viktor Yanukovych chose not to sign an agreement that would have integrated the country more closely with the European Union.

As the protests in Kyiv’s Independence Square, or Maidan, continued into 2014, the government began cracking down on the demonstrators. The size of the protests only grew in reaction and turned into what was termed “the revolution of dignity.” Those who remained on the Maidan risked assault, kidnapping, unlawful arrest, and loss of their jobs. On January 16, the government introduced a series of repressive laws severely restricting civil society and the right to protest. On January 22, the first protesters were killed in clashes in Kyiv; in all, over 100 mostly civilian protesters died, the majority on February 20 and 21.

On February 22, after President Yanukovych had fled the country, parliament voted to oust him and hold new elections. On May 25, Ukrainians elected Petro Poroshenko as president. After October elections, a new pro-reform coalition government came into power in December 2014.

What were the Euromaidan protests about?​

The protests were more than a demand for closer EU relations; they were a rejection of injustice as a way of life and of the post-Soviet politics of corruption and nepotism. Ukrainians took to the streets to denounce the country’s endemic corruption, from the grand corruption practiced by ex-president Yanukovych and his peers, to everyday corruption and petty unfairness—like the need to bribe a teacher to get better classroom conditions for your children, a doctor to get an appointment, or the traffic police to avoid unlawful fines.

Civil society activists and NGOs played an important role in organizing this early protest movement. Ukraine’s independent media—including Ukrainska Pravda, Nashi Groshi (Our Money), and Slidstvo.info—were also pivotal in exposing the corruption that eventually brought people onto the streets in November 2013.

The brutal government crackdown that followed these initial protests galvanized Maidan supporters and encouraged more to join. This momentum, further propelled by the the killings of February 20 and 21, led to the removal of ex-president Yanukovych from power.

 

[iguanaman]

Putin invaded Ukraine because he supposedly wants to protect the Russian-speakers there from morally corrupt and evil western influence, like tolerance for gays, religious and ethnic minorities, pluralism, etc... With that argument, what's to keep him from invading the Baltic states? Poland? Germany? UK? USA?

Because, after all, there are Russian speakers in all those countries, and they are being forced to live under all those evil and oppressive conditions.

Putin is bombing and killing "Russian speakers" at a rate unmatched since Stalin. He is their biggest enemy.

 

[Questerr]

Sure Russia can end this war when it wants to but obviously there are still outstanding aims before it will end it. They will also be aware of how the US is trying to bleed Russia using Ukrainian lives to do it.

Russia stop bleeding immediately, but instead they want to continue their war of aggression.

 

[oneworld2]

Putin invaded Ukraine because he supposedly wants to protect the Russian-speakers there from morally corrupt and evil western influence, like tolerance for gays, religious and ethnic minorities, pluralism, etc... With that argument, what's to keep him from invading the Baltic states? Poland? Germany? UK? USA?

Because they are NATO members and he definitely doesn't want a war with NATO

Russia stop bleeding immediately, but instead they want to continue their war of aggression.

It's pretty much pointless to stop it now before the aims are met. They are committed to it until such times as they feel the threat has been diminished.

 

[oneworld2]

More myths and propaganda are your only response? The people of Ukraine rebelled against the corrupt Russian puppet President and he fled to Russia when the Ukraine parliament scheduled a new election. Ever since the Granite revolution in 1990 the Ukrainians have been trying to lift the yoke of Russian domination from their land. They want to join the rest of Europe and that was their "sin". Are all these people in the streets of Ukraine agents of the U.S?

Why did Ukraine’s Euromaidan protests begin?​

In late November 2013, Ukrainians took to the streets in peaceful protest after then-president Viktor Yanukovych chose not to sign an agreement that would have integrated the country more closely with the European Union.

As the protests in Kyiv’s Independence Square, or Maidan, continued into 2014, the government began cracking down on the demonstrators. The size of the protests only grew in reaction and turned into what was termed “the revolution of dignity.” Those who remained on the Maidan risked assault, kidnapping, unlawful arrest, and loss of their jobs. On January 16, the government introduced a series of repressive laws severely restricting civil society and the right to protest. On January 22, the first protesters were killed in clashes in Kyiv; in all, over 100 mostly civilian protesters died, the majority on February 20 and 21.

On February 22, after President Yanukovych had fled the country, parliament voted to oust him and hold new elections. On May 25, Ukrainians elected Petro Poroshenko as president. After October elections, a new pro-reform coalition government came into power in December 2014.

What were the Euromaidan protests about?​

The protests were more than a demand for closer EU relations; they were a rejection of injustice as a way of life and of the post-Soviet politics of corruption and nepotism. Ukrainians took to the streets to denounce the country’s endemic corruption, from the grand corruption practiced by ex-president Yanukovych and his peers, to everyday corruption and petty unfairness—like the need to bribe a teacher to get better classroom conditions for your children, a doctor to get an appointment, or the traffic police to avoid unlawful fines.

Civil society activists and NGOs played an important role in organizing this early protest movement. Ukraine’s independent media—including Ukrainska Pravda, Nashi Groshi (Our Money), and Slidstvo.info—were also pivotal in exposing the corruption that eventually brought people onto the streets in November 2013.

The brutal government crackdown that followed these initial protests galvanized Maidan supporters and encouraged more to join. This momentum, further propelled by the the killings of February 20 and 21, led to the removal of ex-president Yanukovych from power.

You only know one side of the story because you ONLY want to know one side of the story. Some counterfacts to the above

Yanuvovych delayed signing up to the new EU deal because the Russians were offering a better one with less strings attached to it.

The popular protests were piggy backed by the far right Ukrainian nationalists in order to initiate a coup

Yanukovych fled because it was obvious that they didn't/wouldn't accept his offers of a deal to resolve the conflict regardin Maidan.

The US diplomats Nuland and Pyat were caught selecting who should head the new coupster govt

All the Ukrainian govts since have been corrupt, so it's not like only the Yanukovych govt was.

Zelensky was voted in on a peace ticket but was steered away from it by the far right

Zelensky is as corrupt as the others have been

Ukraine was becoming a defacto NATO member

 

[ataraxia]

Because they are NATO members and he definitely doesn't want a war with NATO

So 2 follow up questions:

1) You think they are justified in invading Ukraine to free the oppressed Russian speakers there from corrupt western values of tolerance for gays?
2) They would be justified in invading any country with Russian speakers in it to free them from these corrupt values, if they were not a member of NATO and they weren't as afraid to invade?

 

[Helix]

I don't care much about what election interference professionals think that i want. For any other questions, see my avatar.

 

[oneworld2]

So 2 follow up questions:

1) You think they are justified in invading Ukraine to free the oppressed Russian speakers there from corrupt western values of tolerance for gays?

I don't think that those were the reasons for the invasion. Ukraine was fast becoming a defacto NATO state and was arming up to retake/attack the Donbas/Crimea. They attacked now or risk fighting a stronger Ukraine later

2) They would be justified in invading any country with Russian speakers in it to free them from these corrupt values, if they were not a member of NATO and they weren't as afraid to invade?

No I don't agree with the Russian anti gay stance but I don't believe it was the case for war. A threat to national security trumps everything imo

It's like saying the US hysteria and willingness to engage in a possible nuclear exchange with Russia in the 60's was because of some socialists ruling over Cuba. The missiles would pose a serious threat to US national security and thus that was the reasoning behind the stance/action

So a question for you.

If the US had not have persuaded the Soviets to ditch there Cuban missiles in exchange for US missile out of Turkey, would you have supported a military attack on Cuba to stop the threat of ballistic missiles 90 miles off the Florida coast?

 

[oneworld2]

Remember the way they (ironically!) talked about the islanders being 'savages,' or something like that?

Yep, the constant health checks on the " savages" was all about gaining knowledge on how being exposed to high radiation plays out on the human body, gross.

 

[Questerr]

Because they are NATO members and he definitely doesn't want a war with NATO





It's pretty much pointless to stop it now before the aims are met. They are committed to it until such times as they feel the threat has been diminished.

It’s not pointless. It would end their war of aggression and slaughter of innocent people.

 

[jnug]

Why are you so scared of the other side of the story being spoken about?

Do you prefer to live in an echo chamber your whole life?

Because there is no other side in this case. There is what is happening and there is Putin's Parrots spewing his propaganda.

In fact, based on the scenes from Bucha, I would suggest its time to bypass the UN Security Counsel, go to the General Assembly and fugg Putin right in the ass!

 

[ataraxia]

So a question for you.

If the US had not have persuaded the Soviets to ditch there Cuban missiles in exchange for US missile out of Turkey, would you have supported a military attack on Cuba to stop the threat of ballistic missiles 90 miles off the Florida coast?

If I had already agreed to it in an earlier treaty and had promised security to them in that treaty, then yes.

Heck, there was a while there that Russia was even being considered itself for membership in NATO. That’s when it was starting to look like they were going to become a civilized nation and join the rest of the international community. All of this is due to Putin‘s own paranoia: this level of fear and suspicion regading NATO has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[jnug]

You only know one side of the story because you ONLY want to know one side of the story. Some counterfacts to the above

Yanuvovych delayed signing up to the new EU deal because the Russians were offering a better one with less strings attached to it.

The popular protests were piggy backed by the far right Ukrainian nationalists in order to initiate a coup

Yanukovych fled because it was obvious that they didn't/wouldn't accept his offers of a deal to resolve the conflict regardin Maidan.

The US diplomats Nuland and Pyat were caught selecting who should head the new coupster govt

All the Ukrainian govts since have been corrupt, so it's not like only the Yanukovych govt was.

Zelensky was voted in on a peace ticket but was steered away from it by the far right

Zelensky is as corrupt as the others have been

Ukraine was becoming a defacto NATO member

Yanuckovych who ended up in exile......where????? IN RUSSIA of course. NOTHING from Russia to Ukraine is a better deal and Ukrainians know it.

 

[Cardinal]

Unfortunately, warmongers holed up in Washington DC want to play God, and pursue rampant unrestrained triumphalism that can only revive the Cold War, which will be to the detriment of all.

PETER HITCHENS: USA wants war to drive Russia back to the Stone Age

PETER HITCHENS: This is not a war between Ukraine and Russia. It is a war between the USA and Russia, in which both sides are cynically using Ukraine as a battering ram.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CaughtInThe]

The OP is a Russian propagandist. Do not listen to him.

 

[oneworld2]

It’s not pointless. It would end their war of aggression and slaughter of innocent people.

They are committed to the demilitarisation of Ukraine, that means destroying as much of the military as is possible to diminish the threat its relationship with NATO poses to Russia.

I don't agree with Putins war and would like to have seen him take a very different approach to undermine the threat but you cannot dispute the threat Ukriane/NATO military alliances/exercises/arming/training/base building posed to the Russian state.

I'll put it another way, the Russian concerns are at least credible, your own illegal war and slaughter of Iraqis/ Afghans, Syrians, Libyans, Serbs etc etc were not

 

[RaleBulgarian]

That you fail to understand that an aggressor can also be a victim shows a breathtaking lack of understanding imo

Evidently you subscribe to the arrogant US / Western view that only they should have legitimate national security threats addressed. Like the Cuban missile crisis etc

At least the Russian concerns are credible. Yours,not so much.

That you consider Putin a victim is breathtakingly stupid.

 

[Cardinal]

They are committed to the demilitarisation of Ukraine, that means destroying as much of the military as is possible to diminish the threat its relationship with NATO poses to Russia.

Finland may join NATO, and right now there are talks of Ukraine not joining NATO but being part of a security agreement that effectively gives them NATO protection (NATO in all but name). And of course Russia is a global pariah and is now recognized as committing war crimes.

So…yeah…hats off to Putin. A round of applause.

I don't agree with Putins war and would like to have seen him take a very different approach to undermine the threat but you cannot dispute the threat Ukriane/NATO military alliances/exercises/arming/training/base building posed to the Russian state.

 

[oneworld2]

Because there is no other side in this case.

Of course there is and it's obvious you just don't want to listen to it. And you don't have to either. But calling people " parrots" etc just because they have bothered to listen to more sides than yourself is ridiculous imo

There is what is happening and there is Putin's Parrots spewing his propaganda.

Yes, there is what is happening including what Russia is saying. The fact remains that Ukraine is/was becoming a defacto NATO state, a distinction without a difference. That's a serious threat to Russian national security.

If the Russians were setting up missile bases in Mexico and your own concerns were ignored you would be pulling your hair out

In fact, based on the scenes from Bucha, I would suggest its time to bypass the UN Security Counsel, go to the General Assembly and fugg Putin right in the ass!

I will wager vastly more people, innocent people, were killed in your own illegal attack on Iraq than have been killed in this conflict so far. Where is your commitment to see Bush in jail for ther crimes visited upon those people. Or the people of Yemen that have been cluster bombed by the KSA off the back of US intel support etc ?

 

[oneworld2]

That you consider Putin a victim is breathtakingly stupid.

Not really. I consider the wreckless eastward expansion of NATO to the Russian border an aggression that poses a serious threat to the national security of the state itself. I believe that even if Putin not have been in power the Russians would have at some point had to take a military stand against the threat of NATO on their borders and the Russian people would have supported it.