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The US empire

commy

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The United States is the world's first truly global empire. It has spread its control- through economic means, through its military, through its intelligence agencies. there are few countries left on the planet not under the US umbrella. (The "axis of evil" named 3, no accident.)

government is not working alone. extremely wealthy corporations seem to benefit the most from this global conquest. the gov't uses debt or force to open the way into a country's resources, and the large companies come in and exploit them, benefit from them.


the system is so self serving that its satellites, in almost every case, end up with more poverty and misery after they enter the empire. clauses in these WB and IMF "agreements" put debt repayment ahead of social spending, ahead of all spending, so in many cases countries are forced to make payments to these (mainly US) institutions, ahead of things like health care and education. countries are forced into poverty, while their riches are taken.

often these country's are run by thugs, authoritarian regimes that gladly accept these billion dollar loans, leaving the people of the country with the debt. in one case you had a parking lot of BMW's owned by an individual neighboring absolute poverty and dirt streets. these "leaders" take the loans, the people pay them off.

Domestically, at the center of this empire, we haven't seen wage increases (relative to inflation) since 1979. this while corporate profits and paychecks have risen exponentially. absolutely the rich have been getting richer, and the poor poorer.

in the 70's a single laborer could provide for a family. later it required both partners. then it required borrowing. now it can be a struggle.

organized labor has become so demonized it is often blamed for this problem. never mind the 40 hour work week, overtime pay (that is under attack) workers rights and workers comp and abolition of child labor that it has given us.

selfishness and greed are rewarded, while compassion the exception, the church fundraiser or the non profit organization the only way many of the extremely poor see any help. the system serves those who own it, leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

meanwhile we are allowed to vote on individuals to operate in this structure every 2 or 4 years and one thing is guaranteed every election: the militant capitalists will win. if voting could change the system if would be illegal. this government that controls a global empire, why would they allow us to change that?


on election day i left many boxes blank, some i checked, that is the extent of my participation in this empire. fundamentally nothing changes.



this a world run by an empire where 11-13 million people die every year from easily curable diseases (read: cheaply) or starvation every single year, according to the UN. a world where labor and resources are exploited to serve the opulent minority, where the majority of us are forgotten or used, reduced to servants for the ruling elite. an annual holocaust that we perpetuate by supporting this structure.

while we are all distracted with the illusion of participation, with illusion of debate, they continue the conquest. iraq/afghanistan, they are falling like so many others.. people bitch and moan and vote for republicans or democrats, thinking they are participating. the reality is there is little difference between the two, not for billions of people around the world, not for millions of people at home. institutions rule, while individuals suffer, and government officials perpetuate this; they represent a powerful one and they are all on the same side. not ours.


if i had carte balnche, i would end authority, the root of the problem laid out above. i would give it to everyone, essentially removing it from anyone. anarchy in a sense, minus the fire that usually accompanies that term. the tea baggers are onto something with their attack on government, but ignoring corporate power will only exacerbate that problem. institutions, any structure where individuals work together towards a single profit margin, towards a single empire, that is the enemy. profit cannot be put ahead of people, the community must be. i am looking for a world where participation in society rewards society, not the private institutions running it. this simple shift in ethos would end 80% of crime, end war, change the way we interact, behave, what motivates us every second of the day. in a world where labor is rewarded by its value, it changes the mentality at the heart of society. people will be working together, not against one another. and that is crucial.

socialism, to be sure. but also libertarianism.
 

German guy

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Nah, the US empire brings more advantages than disadvantages, IMHO. It's economically and culturally attractive, which is why so many satellites join it and happily stay inside its sphere of influence (what did the Romans ever do for us, eh? ;) ). Also, the American empire brings stability and prosperity, by protecting security, also by military means.

It may not be perfect, and there is indeed a lot of corruption, too much power for greedy, rent-seeking corporations and questionable military endeavours. But compare this to any other empire that existed on this planet in the past. Never before, an empire was founded so much on "soft power", rather than military oppression.

I'm the first to agree with you that America often uses its power to serve economic interests, even if that stands against the interests of people in other countries. Corporate power and the military-industrial complex (even old commie-eater Dwight D. Eisenhower, Republican, once warned America of) have too much influence, and quite a few things are not going as well as they should. There is a lot of room for improvement.

But considering the alternatives, I take America over other hegemons without hesitation. Because what would be the alternative? A collapse of the empire, resulting in many local wars, anarchy, disorder, massive bloodshed. Or some other global or local hegemon taking America's place -- and would you really rather live under Chinese rule? Or Russia's? Or the historical alternatives -- a Nazi empire, or a Soviet empire? No thanks.

America is not perfect, and we have good reasons to criticize its policies. But all in all, I'd say the American empire brings more good than bad. And I say that as a non-American.
 

Tedminator

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Nah, the US empire brings more advantages than disadvantages, IMHO. It's economically and culturally attractive, which is why so many satellites join it and happily stay inside its sphere of influence (what did the Romans ever do for us, eh? ;) ). Also, the American empire brings stability and prosperity, by protecting security, also by military means.

It may not be perfect, and there is indeed a lot of corruption, too much power for greedy, rent-seeking corporations and questionable military endeavours. But compare this to any other empire that existed on this planet in the past. Never before, an empire was founded so much on "soft power", rather than military oppression.

I'm the first to agree with you that America often uses its power to serve economic interests, even if that stands against the interests of people in other countries. Corporate power and the military-industrial complex (even old commie-eater Dwight D. Eisenhower, Republican, once warned America of) have too much influence, and quite a few things are not going as well as they should. There is a lot of room for improvement.

But considering the alternatives, I take America over other hegemons without hesitation. Because what would be the alternative? A collapse of the empire, resulting in many local wars, anarchy, disorder, massive bloodshed. Or some other global or local hegemon taking America's place -- and would you really rather live under Chinese rule? Or Russia's? Or the historical alternatives -- a Nazi empire, or a Soviet empire? No thanks.

America is not perfect, and we have good reasons to criticize its policies. But all in all, I'd say the American empire brings more good than bad. And I say that as a non-American.

yup! as far as empires go, living in the era of PaxAmericana isn't so bad :)
 

commy

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never mind the annual holocaust apparently.




11-13 million people die every year in this empire from easily curable diseases or starvation.



but its better than rome......what a concept. this holocaust is annual, did i mention that? these people dying, the majority come from IMF affected countries, the economic arm of this empire....


did the jewish holocaust mean so little then?
 
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spud_meister

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Commy, how do you propose to cure these diseases?
 

German guy

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never mind the annual holocaust apparently.

11-13 million people die every year in this empire from easily curable diseases or starvation.



but its better than rome......what a concept. this holocaust is annual, did i mention that? these people dying, the majority come from IMF affected countries, the economic arm of this empire....

did the jewish holocaust mean so little then?
I would easily wager the bet that without America and its Pax Americana, the number of people dying of all kinds of effects would easily be 10 times as high. At any rate, chances are your naive little sandbox plays about a revolutionary change of the world for the better would easily result in more deaths than Nazism and Stalinism combined.

Unfortunately, some people will always die of starvation, crime or illnesses. And I agree that America does not always do enough or even remotely the right thing to prevent that from happening. But only the fewest of them die as a direct effect of America's actions.

And it's ridiculously absurd to compare that to the Holocaust. By doing so, you are pissing on the graves of the millions murdered by the Nazis.

You have decided already to blame America for everything bad that happens on this planet, so I guess there is nothing I could say to change your mind.
 

commy

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I would easily wager the bet that without America and its Pax Americana, the number of people dying of all kinds of effects would easily be 10 times as high. At any rate, chances are your naive little sandbox plays about a revolutionary change of the world for the better would easily result in more deaths than Nazism and Stalinism combined.

Unfortunately, some people will always die of starvation, crime or illnesses. And I agree that America does not always do enough or even remotely the right thing to prevent that from happening. But only the fewest of them die as a direct effect of America's actions.

And it's ridiculously absurd to compare that to the Holocaust. By doing so, you are pissing on the graves of the millions murdered by the Nazis.

You have decided already to blame America for everything bad that happens on this planet, so I guess there is nothing I could say to change your mind.
you have already conceded there is a US empire. how can the US not be responsible for the state of the world; they run it.


world trade agreements, covert ops, direct military intervention, these things all are weighed when considering the death toll. 1 million in iraq alone, since 1991. add disease and starvation, hey the US runs the world yeah? you've admitted as much. it should at least try to take care of those porblems. the fact that it doesnt', within its empire, gives us a little insight as to where its priorities lie. human beings are expendable in this empire, while resources and control are worth killing for.,
 
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German guy

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you have already conceded there is a US empire. how can the US not be responsible for the state of the world; they run it.


world trade agreements, covert ops, direct military intervention, these things all are weighed when considering the death toll. 1 million in iraq alone, since 1991. add disease and starvation, hey the US runs the world yeah? you've admitted as much. it should at least try to take care of those porblems. the fact that it doesnt', within its empire, gives us a little insight as to where its priorities lie. human beings are expendable in this empire, while resources and control are worth killing for.,
Just because a state controls a certain area to some extent, it doesn't mean it has total control and is responsible for every death that occurs within that area. What ridiculous kind of idea is that? States neither have, nor should have total control. Not in their wildest dreams, a state has so much control.

When you don't have enough money, maybe that's not the government's fault. Ever thought of that?
 

Goshin

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Mental note: German Guy - remarkably sensible chap who actually knows the meaning of 'logic' and 'reason', and is capable of looking beyond shallow hype... an all too rare thing around here lately. (/end note) :mrgreen:
 

MKULTRABOY

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It could be alot better in alot of ways. In alot of ways what looks 'alot better' has yet to be seen anywhere. It's a mixed blessing, this pax americana. There is alot more to be desired sometimes. :shrug:

And its not really an empire in any classical sense.
 

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The United States is the world's first truly global empire. It has spread its control- through economic means, through its military, through its intelligence agencies. there are few countries left on the planet not under the US umbrella. (The "axis of evil" named 3, no accident.)

government is not working alone. extremely wealthy corporations seem to benefit the most from this global conquest. the gov't uses debt or force to open the way into a country's resources, and the large companies come in and exploit them, benefit from them.


the system is so self serving that its satellites, in almost every case, end up with more poverty and misery after they enter the empire. clauses in these WB and IMF "agreements" put debt repayment ahead of social spending, ahead of all spending, so in many cases countries are forced to make payments to these (mainly US) institutions, ahead of things like health care and education. countries are forced into poverty, while their riches are taken.

often these country's are run by thugs, authoritarian regimes that gladly accept these billion dollar loans, leaving the people of the country with the debt. in one case you had a parking lot of BMW's owned by an individual neighboring absolute poverty and dirt streets. these "leaders" take the loans, the people pay them off.

Domestically, at the center of this empire, we haven't seen wage increases (relative to inflation) since 1979. this while corporate profits and paychecks have risen exponentially. absolutely the rich have been getting richer, and the poor poorer.

in the 70's a single laborer could provide for a family. later it required both partners. then it required borrowing. now it can be a struggle.

organized labor has become so demonized it is often blamed for this problem. never mind the 40 hour work week, overtime pay (that is under attack) workers rights and workers comp and abolition of child labor that it has given us.

selfishness and greed are rewarded, while compassion the exception, the church fundraiser or the non profit organization the only way many of the extremely poor see any help. the system serves those who own it, leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

meanwhile we are allowed to vote on individuals to operate in this structure every 2 or 4 years and one thing is guaranteed every election: the militant capitalists will win. if voting could change the system if would be illegal. this government that controls a global empire, why would they allow us to change that?


on election day i left many boxes blank, some i checked, that is the extent of my participation in this empire. fundamentally nothing changes.



this a world run by an empire where 11-13 million people die every year from easily curable diseases (read: cheaply) or starvation every single year, according to the UN. a world where labor and resources are exploited to serve the opulent minority, where the majority of us are forgotten or used, reduced to servants for the ruling elite. an annual holocaust that we perpetuate by supporting this structure.

while we are all distracted with the illusion of participation, with illusion of debate, they continue the conquest. iraq/afghanistan, they are falling like so many others.. people bitch and moan and vote for republicans or democrats, thinking they are participating. the reality is there is little difference between the two, not for billions of people around the world, not for millions of people at home. institutions rule, while individuals suffer, and government officials perpetuate this; they represent a powerful one and they are all on the same side. not ours.


if i had carte balnche, i would end authority, the root of the problem laid out above. i would give it to everyone, essentially removing it from anyone. anarchy in a sense, minus the fire that usually accompanies that term. the tea baggers are onto something with their attack on government, but ignoring corporate power will only exacerbate that problem. institutions, any structure where individuals work together towards a single profit margin, towards a single empire, that is the enemy. profit cannot be put ahead of people, the community must be. i am looking for a world where participation in society rewards society, not the private institutions running it. this simple shift in ethos would end 80% of crime, end war, change the way we interact, behave, what motivates us every second of the day. in a world where labor is rewarded by its value, it changes the mentality at the heart of society. people will be working together, not against one another. and that is crucial.

socialism, to be sure. but also libertarianism.
The US is the first true Global Empire?
I strongly disagree.

We defintely weren't the first to venture out and touch the corners of the globe - Britain and the changing European state pre 1800's is a strong contendor for that status.
 

Gardener

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This brings back such fond memories. It's like me 40 years ago.

Then I got to college and started using the word hegemony so I could everybody nuts with that one.
 

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The US is the first true Global Empire?
I strongly disagree.

We defintely weren't the first to venture out and touch the corners of the globe - Britain and the changing European state pre 1800's is a strong contendor for that status.

The US is the first country with global military reach.
 

washunut

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never mind the annual holocaust apparently.




11-13 million people die every year in this empire from easily curable diseases or starvation.



but its better than rome......what a concept. this holocaust is annual, did i mention that? these people dying, the majority come from IMF affected countries, the economic arm of this empire....


did the jewish holocaust mean so little then?
Ok now here come the slurs. Go hide under a rock and come back in twenty years.
 

Harshaw

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The US is the first country with global military reach.
Queen Victoria would have vehemently disagreed with that assessment.
 

MKULTRABOY

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Ok now here come the slurs. Go hide under a rock and come back in twenty years.
It's the difference between letting your cat die from your ignorance and negligence or placing your cat in a microwave to die on purpose.
 

Harshaw

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Goobieman

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The United States is the world's first truly global empire. It has spread its control- through economic means, through its military, through its intelligence agencies. there are few countries left on the planet not under the US umbrella. (The "axis of evil" named 3, no accident.)
The US is the last, best hope for freedom and liberty in the world as only the US has the will and the resources to defend it. Should the US lose either of those things, the world will fall into a new Dark Age.

This outweights whatever blemishes the US may carry, by several orders of magnitude.
 

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Queen Victoria would have vehemently disagreed with that assessment.
Correctly so.
There were few places that QV could not effectively project force, if she was a mind to do so.
 

MKULTRABOY

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Why would I be embarassed that your sharing knowledge. I know more about the Soviet Union than I do the british empire.

Linkemup.
 

Harshaw

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Why would I be embarassed that your sharing knowledge. I know more about the Soviet Union than I do the british empire.
Then you went off on something you know very little about. That was clear from the getgo. Considering Queen Victoria died in 1901 and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, you might have thought to check that maybe, just maybe, things may have happened prior to your frame of reference. Or before the 20th century.

Linkemup.
Let me google that for you
 

MKULTRABOY

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I was aware of 'the great game' between Russia and Britain at the time. Very educational.

:mrgreen:
 
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