The unansweared list

[Dogger807]

How is non belief in god different in non belief in other imaginary friends such as the easter bunny? A common response when people want to equate atheism to a religion by stating non belief in god is a belief.

There are many forms of this question repeated numerous times on this forum site alone. Yet not once have I seen it answered directly. Normally it is either ignored or at most answered with a red herring. There are several questions and challenges and questions theists never answer or respond to. I figure this is because religion depends on mysticism to hold any sway in logical debates on any level.

So... I decided to make a thread who's only purpose is to have posters list the questions never answered, by either side. What questions have you observed fall in this category?

 

[mikhail]

YouTube - TMWRNJ - Pause for a thought s02e05

 

[Thorgasm]

What is "unansweared"?

 

[Thorgasm]

Why do babies die?
Why would God allow Satan to exist?
If God is all-powerful, why is there free will? (It's a zero sum game)
If we are all God's children then why does he have a "chosen people"?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'll take a stab at these.

Why do babies die?

All humans die. Babies are no different.

Why would God allow Satan to exist?

This question assumes that Satan exists. Perhaps he does not, as several religions believe, including mine.

Or, for those who believe that Satan exists, perhaps he was created as a sort of checks and balance system.

If God is all-powerful, why is there free will? (It's a zero sum game)

This question assumes that there is free will. Perhaps there is not. If that is true than the first part of your question is accurate and the second part is irrelevant.

Or, if free will does exist, perhaps God created it, again negating the non-all powerful supposition, but creating a neat little paradox.

If we are all God's children then why does he have a "chosen people"?

Here's a cool answer for you. Since, ultimately, we are all descended from the original Hebrews, in reality, we are all, God's chosen people,

Even religiously, one can use logic to answer/discuss questions such as these.

 

[Summerwind]

Why are christians so vengeful and so full of hatred when their "savior" told them to love thy enemies. Christian Americans in particular seem to be so full of anger and vitriol regarding their percieved enemies, it is never presented as a case of "love". It seems that when they try to "recruit" you into their fold, its all about God=Love, Jesus=Love; but in real life; love is low and intolerance is quite high among most christians in the USA.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Why are christians so vengeful and so full of hatred when their "savior" told them to love thy enemies. Christian Americans in particular seem to be so full of anger and vitriol regarding their percieved enemies, it is never presented as a case of "love". It seems that when they try to "recruit" you into their fold, its all about God=Love, Jesus=Love; but in real life; love is low and intolerance is quite high among most christians in the USA.

Perhaps it is only some Christians, and those that do are not following the doctrines of their "savior". Simple misinterpretion of the message.

 

[Summerwind]

Perhaps it is only some Christians, and those that do are not following the doctrines of their "savior". Simple misinterpretion of the message.

I think it is safe to say that MOST, so long as I limit it to the USA. I sure don't see anyone in the religious community telling them they are wrong for supporting wars and death penalty and such.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I think it is safe to say that MOST, so long as I limit it to the USA. I sure don't see anyone in the religious community telling them they are wrong for supporting wars and death penalty and such.

I'm not certain I agree with the MOST assertion. But since I am not Christian, I will acquiesce to someone who is to discuss the finer parts of this point.

However, a quick and dirty answer could be that MOST are not following the doctrines. This is a reflection on THEM, not on the message.

 

[Summerwind]

I'm not certain I agree with the MOST assertion. But since I am not Christian, I will acquiesce to someone who is to discuss the finer parts of this point.

However, a quick and dirty answer could be that MOST are not following the doctrines. This is a reflection on THEM, not on the message.

I didn't get the impression that the questions were restricted to doctrines. I just read unanswered questions by the other side. So my question remains, how do the followers of a god that is all love, that sent his only son to teach things like love thy neighbor seem to sanction such violence and anger and intolerance.

 

[jallman]

I think it is safe to say that MOST, so long as I limit it to the USA. I sure don't see anyone in the religious community telling them they are wrong for supporting wars and death penalty and such.

No it is not MOST as you are shallowly and thoughtlessly asserting. It is a vocal few who act as though they speak for the majority when they, in fact, do not. MOST Christians you meet on the street are very much live and let live but if you confront them with questions one should not be angry with the Christian for giving you the answer. With MOST Christians, the confrontation will go no further than that.

There is nothing in the Christian doctrine that bars wars and the death penalty. Christianity deals with one's personal relationship with God and does not speak to the governing of kingdoms.

"Give unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God's."

 

[Summerwind]

No it is not MOST as you are shallowly and thoughtlessly asserting. It is a vocal few who act as though they speak for the majority when they, in fact, do not. MOST Christians you meet on the street are very much live and let live but if you confront them with questions one should not be angry with the Christian for giving you the answer. With MOST Christians, the confrontation will go no further than that.

There is nothing in the Christian doctrine that bars wars and the death penalty. Christianity deals with one's personal relationship with God and does not speak to the governing of kingdoms.

"Give unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God's."

Okay that's two from the opposing side that are harping on the word "most" instead of answering the question.

 

[jallman]

Okay that's two from the opposing side that are harping on the word "most" instead of answering the question.

Then don't use the word MOST and paint people with a broad brush. If you expect an honest answer, then how about trying to ask an honest question.

And I did answer your question. You just didn't read.

 

[scourge99]

Why do babies die?

That depends on why you think babies shouldn't die?

Why would God allow Satan to exist?

What would free-will be without choice? IE, what is joy without pain? What is happiness without sadness? Yin and Yang.

If God is all-powerful, why is there free will? (It's a zero sum game)

I've discussed this one recently and I came to a plausible solution that is satisfactory to both theist and atheist alike: God is all powerful but chooses to not interfere with free-will. He has set the table in a manner that allows our will to act independent of his actions. IE, God is omnipotent with the exception that he limits himself from affecting our free-will.

 

[Thorgasm]

I'll take a stab at these.

Okay.

All humans die. Babies are no different.

:rofl Yes, but the timing is conspicuous.

This question assumes that Satan exists. Perhaps he does not, as several religions believe, including mine.

Or, for those who believe that Satan exists, perhaps he was created as a sort of checks and balance system.

Judaism doesn't believe in Satan? I did not know that. What was the serpent in the Garden of Eden?

Does an infallible being need checks and balances?

This question assumes that there is free will. Perhaps there is not. If that is true than the first part of your question is accurate and the second part is irrelevant.

If there wasn't free will how could you hold man accountable for his actions on Judgement Day? Wouldn't that render the Ten Commandments irrelevant?

Or, if free will does exist, perhaps God created it, again negating the non-all powerful supposition, but creating a neat little paradox.

Circular logic.

Here's a cool answer for you. Since, ultimately, we are all descended from the original Hebrews, in reality, we are all, God's chosen people,

Are we really all descended from original Hebrews?

Even religiously, one can use logic to answer/discuss questions such as these.

If you ignore logic fallacies. With religion, you start with a conclusion and work backwards from there. That isn't how logic works.

 

[Thorgasm]

That depends on why you think babies shouldn't die?

There's no purpose for an innocent life to be judged by the creator before they are judgeable.

What would free-will be without choice? IE, what is joy without pain? What is happiness without sadness? Yin and Yang.

This reminds me of Spaceballs. There's a good and a bad side to the Schwartz. Sorry, your examples don't cut it. They are saying God is dependent upon Satan for his own existence. Why would angels have free will in his kingdom which they are supposed to have eternal life in glory?

I've discussed this one recently and I came to a plausible solution that is satisfactory to both theist and atheist alike: God is all powerful but chooses to not interfere with free-will. He has set the table in a manner that allows our will to act independent of his actions. IE, God is omnipotent with the exception that he limits himself from affecting our free-will.

Circular logic. God is all-powerful except when he limits his own power? That's like saying that he created a rock so big that he couldn't pick it up.

 

[jallman]

Judaism doesn't believe in Satan? I did not know that. What was the serpent in the Garden of Eden?

Does an infallible being need checks and balances?



If there wasn't free will how could you hold man accountable for his actions on Judgement Day? Wouldn't that render the Ten Commandments irrelevant?

You're now moving into very deep territory that is open to wide interpretation.

I personally don't believe the serpent was Satan. I also don't believe the Biblical account of the Great Debate between God and Satan leaves Satan falling from grace until after the death of Christ. When you start looking at the Angelic Orders and the Qabalist taxonomy of angels and their different spheres, you see that Satan is a perfect converse of God (as depicted by the Tetragrammaton) who serves a purpose in the grand design.

All the discussion over "free will" is what caused the fall out between God and Lucifer to start with if you look at the mythology. Every archetypal struggle that we see occur in man's psyche is played out in that one story if you follow that specific aspect of Judeo-Christian mythology from beginning to end.

The worst thing that happened to the Christian mythos was the promotion of "Paradise Lost" as the definitive story of what happened between God and Lucifer/Satan.

 

[jallman]

Circular logic. God is all-powerful except when he limits his own power? That's like saying that he created a rock so big that he couldn't pick it up.

You're making the prideful mistake of applying characteristics of a person to God.

 

[WI Crippler]

Why do babies die?
Why would God allow Satan to exist?
If God is all-powerful, why is there free will? (It's a zero sum game)
If we are all God's children then why does he have a "chosen people"?

1. Because they get in the way

2. So we could have really good music

3. So we can ask the question "Could God make a rock so heavy not even he could lift it?" without him having to continuously strike us down with lightinging bolts.

4. Some kids are better behaved than others.

 

[scourge99]

There's no purpose for an innocent life to be judged by the creator before they are judgeable.

That presumes that your methods for determining judgment are better than that of God's. Don't you have faith?

This reminds me of Spaceballs. There's a good and a bad side to the Schwartz. Sorry, your examples don't cut it. They are saying God is dependent upon Satan for his own existence. Why would angels have free will in his kingdom which they are supposed to have eternal life in glory?

You presume God is the opposite of evil. This is untrue. God is neither. God is outside moral classification of "good" or "evil". Such is the existence of God.

Circular logic. God is all-powerful except when he limits his own power? That's like saying that he created a rock so big that he couldn't pick it up.

Not quite correct. Strictly speaking God is not, by definition, omnipotent because he has limited himself from affecting free-will. I hardly think that makes him less "god-like".

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I didn't get the impression that the questions were restricted to doctrines. I just read unanswered questions by the other side. So my question remains, how do the followers of a god that is all love, that sent his only son to teach things like love thy neighbor seem to sanction such violence and anger and intolerance.

Your original post in this sequence:

Why are christians so vengeful and so full of hatred when their "savior" told them to love thy enemies. Christian Americans in particular seem to be so full of anger and vitriol regarding their percieved enemies, it is never presented as a case of "love". It seems that when they try to "recruit" you into their fold, its all about God=Love, Jesus=Love; but in real life; love is low and intolerance is quite high among most christians in the USA.

Notice the words "Christian" and "Jesus" used prominently. This is a specific doctrine that you presented, which I responded to.

And your post I am responding to continues to address Christianity; I am not Christian and, again, acquiesce to someone who is.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

:rofl Yes, but the timing is conspicuous.

So, you concede the point? :2razz:

Judaism doesn't believe in Satan? I did not know that. What was the serpent in the Garden of Eden?

No, Judaism does not believe in Satan. And the serpent in the Garden of Eden was a serpent.

Does an infallible being need checks and balances?

I'm guessing I overextended myself, here, making a supposition around the possibility that Satan could exist. Since I do not believe that, my statement could be entirely false and better served through a Christian's description. However, and possibly digging myself deeper, it's similar to the meaning of the rainbow; a reminder, or a check, so to speak to not destroy the world via flood, again. Satan may serve some purpose such as that.

If there wasn't free will how could you hold man accountable for his actions on Judgement Day? Wouldn't that render the Ten Commandments irrelevant?

I never said there wasn't free will. I stated the possibility of free will not existing as an explanation only because your question assumed that there was. The determinist school of philosophy does not accept free will. However, if we assume there is free will, God does not choose to involve himself in each and every behavior/interaction. This is similar to scourge99's response.

Circular logic.

Not circular logic. A paradox, which is explained and negated by what I said above.

Are we really all descended from original Hebrews?

In one form or another, I think.

If you ignore logic fallacies. With religion, you start with a conclusion and work backwards from there. That isn't how logic works.

And that's not what's happening, here.

 

[jallman]

Satan may serve some purpose such as that.

Satan stands as the Accuser of mankind. God gave deference to mankind even over the angels, who were with God from the beginning. Unlike the angels, man has free will and can choose his own destiny. Satan serves the purpose of exposing the flaws in mankind.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Satan stands as the Accuser of mankind. God gave deference to mankind even over the angels, who were with God from the beginning. Unlike the angels, man has free will and can choose his own destiny. Satan serves the purpose of exposing the flaws in mankind.

Thank you. A more descriptive and accurate portrayal of what I was trying to say, I think.

 

[jallman]

Thank you. A more descriptive and accurate portrayal of what I was trying to say, I think.

It's all very complex. The idea of Satan as the "bad guy" isn't really an accurate depiction of what Satan is. That was a development of Catholicism to scare people into behaving themselves. It was reinforced by Milton and other medieval writers who took great liberties with the Biblical depictions. The stories of the Bible and medieval writers meshed and have become a single mythology over time.