The U.S. enabling Israel is why there is no peace in the Middle East

Israel is the dominant military power in the region because of U.S. Jets and weapons. Because of this, Israel doesn't have to negotiate for peace.

The biggest obstacle to peace has always been the Palestinian issue and specifically Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories. The UN has long voted and agreed that the settlements are illegal. Israel would have been sanctioned and pressured to end the settlements decades ago if it weren't for the U.S. protecting Israel from sanctions with its veto.

The U.S. supplying Israel with weapons and protecting it from sanctions is why there is no peace. Why should Israel make any meaningful concessions when they don't have to?

I guarantee you that if the U.S. told Israel it would cut off all military support if it didn't give up the occupied territories, it would do it. It's really that simple.

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Israel is the dominant military power in the region because of U.S. Jets and weapons. Because of this, Israel doesn't have to negotiate for peace.

The biggest obstacle to peace has always been the Palestinian issue and specifically Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories. The UN has long voted and agreed that the settlements are illegal. Israel would have been sanctioned and pressured to end the settlements decades ago if it weren't for the U.S. protecting Israel from sanctions with its veto.

The U.S. supplying Israel with weapons and protecting it from sanctions is why there is no peace. Why should Israel make any meaningful concessions when they don't have to?

I guarantee you that if the U.S. told Israel it would cut off all military support if it didn't give up the occupied territories, it would do it. It's really that simple.

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

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We are the worst students of history too. We took Israel and allowed them to become what the country was started to make sure never happened again.

SonOfDaedalus said:

It's really that simple.

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When you make above statement about Middle East, it suggests you are missing something.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Israel is the dominant military power in the region because of U.S. Jets and weapons. Because of this, Israel doesn't have to negotiate for peace.

The biggest obstacle to peace has always been the Palestinian issue and specifically Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories. The UN has long voted and agreed that the settlements are illegal. Israel would have been sanctioned and pressured to end the settlements decades ago if it weren't for the U.S. protecting Israel from sanctions with its veto.

The U.S. supplying Israel with weapons and protecting it from sanctions is why there is no peace. Why should Israel make any meaningful concessions when they don't have to?

I guarantee you that if the U.S. told Israel it would cut off all military support if it didn't give up the occupied territories, it would do it. It's really that simple.

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

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The biggest obstacle to peace is that 'Israel' is an illegal settlement to the Palestinians and Arabs, and Iranians, Iraquis, and Syrians. Removing settlements won't change a thing.

But the people the U.S. are helping, Israel, are benefitting.

Lees

SonOfDaedalus said:

Israel is the dominant military power in the region because of U.S. Jets and weapons. Because of this, Israel doesn't have to negotiate for peace.

The biggest obstacle to peace has always been the Palestinian issue and specifically Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories. The UN has long voted and agreed that the settlements are illegal. Israel would have been sanctioned and pressured to end the settlements decades ago if it weren't for the U.S. protecting Israel from sanctions with its veto.

The U.S. supplying Israel with weapons and protecting it from sanctions is why there is no peace. Why should Israel make any meaningful concessions when they don't have to?

I guarantee you that if the U.S. told Israel it would cut off all military support if it didn't give up the occupied territories, it would do it. It's really that simple.

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

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Where did Israel get the land to become a state? What would people think if Russia tomorrow decided they wanted Alaska and the powers that be said sure, no problem. Would American citizens be upset? So, where did Israel get the land to become Israel? So many of us know so little about the middle east, including me but I do know some things.

Israel doesn't want peace.

Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are all united towards the destruction of Israel and extermination of its Jews.

If someone wants to pretend that is not true and hasn't been true, I question their claimed motives.



The problem is Trump tearing up the Obama deal that was working. The second problem is green lighting the strike before he'd even attempted to renegotiate (beg for) the Obama deal. The third problem is joining in the attack.

The problem is not a country striking the nuke program of a country sworn to its destruction. (Unless of course you agree with Iran that Israel should be destroyed).

SonOfDaedalus said:

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

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Oh, Israel has killed "hundreds of thousands" has it?

The blindly one-sided lies are getting more unhinged.

Mr Person said:

Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are all united towards the destruction of Israel and extermination of its Jews.

If someone wants to pretend that is not true and hasn't been true, I question their claimed motives.

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Why hasn’t Iran killed its Jewish population?

Questerr said:

Why hasn’t Iran killed its Jewish population?

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I am sorry to say it's inevitable.

Jkca1 said:

I am sorry to say it's inevitable.

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What’s stopping them? There’s been Jews living in Iran for centuries. If Iran really is that determined to kill Jews, why haven’t they killed the ones that live in Iran?

Questerr said:

What’s stopping them? There’s been Jews living in Iran for centuries. If Iran really is that determined to kill Jews, why haven’t they killed the ones that live in Iran?

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They just want zionism and the Israeli regime to go away.

bongsaway said:

Where did Israel get the land to become a state? What would people think if Russia tomorrow decided they wanted Alaska and the powers that be said sure, no problem. Would American citizens be upset? So, where did Israel get the land to become Israel? So many of us know so little about the middle east, including me but I do know some things.

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There are already plenty of Middle Eastern countries that have accepted the reality that Israel exists and have moved on. There is no path forward where all the Israelis pack up and leave the Middle East.

I think Iran would be willing to make peace with Israel if it gave up the occupied territories. The view that Iran is an irrational terrorist state is wrong. Iran is considered a "terrorist" state because it strongly supports the Palestinian resistance to the Israeli apartheid state. That's why they support Hezbollah and Hamas. Iranian Shiites are not the ones who attacked us on 9/11. Those were Sunnis who were more closely associated with Saudi Arabia.

If the U.S. demanded that Israel give up the occupied territories, then it would be a huge move towards peace in the region.

Questerr said:

What’s stopping them? There’s been Jews living in Iran for centuries. If Iran really is that determined to kill Jews, why haven’t they killed the ones that live in Iran?

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Read your history books. Jews lived in Germany since the Middle Ages. Did that make a difference in the 30s? When you need a scapegoat, you choose the weakest link.

Questerr said:

Why hasn’t Iran killed its Jewish population?

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Exactly, most people don't even know that are Jewish communities in Iran. There are none in Saudi Arabia. Iran is far more tolerant than Saudi Arabia .

The big difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran is that Saudi Arabia is ruled by an authoritarian family that cares mostly about money. So they are fine with throwing the Palestinians under the bus. But Saudi citizens secretly fund Hamas and terrorist groups fighting Israel. If Saudi Arabia were a democracy, it would be far more hostile towards Israel.

Jkca1 said:

Read your history books. Jews lived in Germany since the Middle Ages. Did that make a difference in the 30s? When you need a scapegoat, you choose the weakest link.

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The Nazis immediately started oppressing and killing Jews after taking power.

The Iranian regime has been in place for 45 years. Are the Iranian Jews in concentration camps?

Jkca1 said:

Read your history books. Jews lived in Germany since the Middle Ages. Did that make a difference in the 30s? When you need a scapegoat, you choose the weakest link.

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Like undocumented people living in the U.S.

Anyway, you can't just predict some future aggression against Jews in Iran. Given all that has happened in the ME it's hard to believe they would start now. The fact remains that Iran is a far more tolerant country than Saudi Arabia. It's even far more democratic.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Like undocumented people living in the U.S.

Anyway, you can't just predict some future aggression against Jews in Iran. Given all that has happened in the ME it's hard to believe they would start now. The fact remains that Iran is a far more tolerant country than Saudi Arabia. It's even far more democratic.

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I hope you are correct, but I have my doubts. Starting in 597 BCE:

SonOfDaedalus said:

There are already plenty of Middle Eastern countries that have accepted the reality that Israel exists and have moved on. There is no path forward where all the Israelis pack up and leave the Middle East.

I think Iran would be willing to make peace with Israel if it gave up the occupied territories. The view that Iran is an irrational terrorist state is wrong. Iran is considered a "terrorist" state because it strongly supports the Palestinian resistance to the Israeli apartheid state. That's why they support Hezbollah and Hamas. Iranian Shiites are not the ones who attacked us on 9/11. Those were Sunnis who were more closely associated with Saudi Arabia.

If the U.S. demanded that Israel give up the occupied territories, then it would be a huge move towards peace in the region.

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I agree. There is a path forward in another way but Israel will not support a two state solution, so, I'm with you, stop all aid to israel, they may indeed use a nuke at that point. Without us support, israel is doomed.

Jkca1 said:

I hope you are correct, but I have my doubts. Starting in 597 BCE:

List of ethnic cleansing campaigns - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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The Neo-Babylonians were in Iraq, not Iran. You realize that, yes?

The Jews taken in the Babylonian Captivity were rescued by who again?

Without "enabling" Israel, Israel wouldn't exist, they'd be destroyed. Israel is one of our major allies and strongest in the mid east. The rest of the world needs to deal with it.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Israel is the dominant military power in the region because of U.S. Jets and weapons. Because of this, Israel doesn't have to negotiate for peace.

The biggest obstacle to peace has always been the Palestinian issue and specifically Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories. The UN has long voted and agreed that the settlements are illegal. Israel would have been sanctioned and pressured to end the settlements decades ago if it weren't for the U.S. protecting Israel from sanctions with its veto.

The U.S. supplying Israel with weapons and protecting it from sanctions is why there is no peace. Why should Israel make any meaningful concessions when they don't have to?

I guarantee you that if the U.S. told Israel it would cut off all military support if it didn't give up the occupied territories, it would do it. It's really that simple.

But hundreds of thousands of people will continue to die because of terrible U.S. foreign policy.

Click to expand...

Questerr said:

The Neo-Babylonians were in Iraq, not Iran. You realize that, yes?

The Jews taken in the Babylonian Captivity were rescued by who again?

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I think you missed the point, but I appreciate your need to be accurate. Be sure and update Wikipedia when you have a second.

Mr Person said:

Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are all united towards the destruction of Israel

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Probably.

Mr Person said:

and extermination of its Jews.

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Not necessarily. They're problem isn't with Jews per se; it's with the Jewish state established through colonialist (and ethnic cleansing) means. Iran, for example, has a Jewish population (one of the world's oldest) that, as far as anyone can tell, seems mostly left alone. They can't express their opinions of the Ayatollah, but neither can the rest of Iran.

To be fair, Israel is not the only modern Global North power to do what they've been doing. As Americans, you and I both inherit the European transatlantic slave and indigenous people's extermination legacy. Israel has done some rough shit, but they ain't gone that far.

multivita-man said:

Probably.



Not necessarily. They're problem isn't with Jews per se; it's with the Jewish state established through colonialist (and ethnic cleansing) means. Iran, for example, has a Jewish population (one of the world's oldest) that, as far as anyone can tell, seems mostly left alone. They can't express their opinions of the Ayatollah, but neither can the rest of Iran.

To be fair, Israel is not the only modern Global North power to do what they've been doing. As Americans, you and I both inherit the European transatlantic slave and indigenous people's extermination legacy. Israel has done some rough shit, but they ain't gone that far.

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Hamas and Iran, necessarily.

Houthis? Ok, I don't know exactly but they're in with Iran, doing its bidding, being boosted by it. So I'd say they are loyal to their commands.

Hezbollah? I'd say what happens to he Israelis if these people succeed in destroying Israel, do you think? If the scenario actually occurred, I'd presume they're all going at it (because I assume Hezbollah/Houthis/Hamas can't do it).



Of course...the nightmare scenario very probably isn't going to happen. But my point isn't about probability.

multivita-man said:

the Jewish state established through colonialist (and ethnic cleansing) means.

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That rather depends on where one stops counting in time and which rules of nation-ownership of land one follows.

In terms of nation-ownership, that land had been the Ottoman Empire's for hundreds of years. It's terrible that that's how humans are, but that is how nation-ownership (as opposed to me owning a plot/house in American land) has been decided throughout history.

Go far enough back and it was Israel/Kingdom of Judea/Palestine (full of Jews)/etc, up to something like 1,500-2000 years before AD kicked off. Romans booted them, everyone fought over it for thousands of years and here we are.

But again, Ottoman's. And the Ottomans fell in WWI.


The UN suggested two equal states - Palestine and Israel - side by side. Someone accepted and someone went nope. Israel was declared in 1948.

And yes, simultaneously Jews throughout those arab countries were expelled just as miserably as the occupants of the main portions of modern Israel. Arab nations then began a hot-cold war against Israel that lasts to this day, though generally done through proxies.



Do we ignore everything since 1948 and everything after ~79 AD, and say "well, this is the right time range. Clearly Israel is permanently a colonialist occupier (which means what exactly about legitimacy for current existence)?

From whatever way you look at it, I'd say fighting over who has the better rights to the land is the most pointless and worst approach. They both have rights to it. [Insert: previous posts bout Bibi's evil vs. the kind of occupy, hold, clear Hamas and any other new organization(s), rebuild, and transfer to viable Palestinian governing body, then two-state solution].

Mr Person said:

Hamas and Iran, necessarily.

Houthis? Ok, I don't know exactly but they're in with Iran, doing its bidding, being boosted by it. So I'd say they are loyal to their commands.

Hezbollah? I'd say what happens to he Israelis if these people succeed in destroying Israel, do you think? If the scenario actually occurred, I'd presume they're all going at it (because I assume Hezbollah/Houthis/Hamas can't do it).



Of course...the nightmare scenario very probably isn't going to happen. But my point isn't about probability.

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Again, Israeli Jewish state vs Jews per se, I'm not sure I see the evidence. In fact, I have to say it, I do not see the evidence.

Does that make what Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran do justified? No. Not at all. But I push back at the persistent claim that Iran hates Jews for being Jewish.

I don't think I have to tell you that if you look at the history of Jews and where Jews are safe, historically speaking, going back to, say, 630 AD, Jews are safer in Muslim territory than the Christendom. I don't think that's remotely debatable. That's not to say there hasn't ever been anti-Jewish violence in the Muslim world, but the whole reason Israel was founded to begin with was basically to escape Christian Europe.