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The Truth About Thanksgiving

Rusty34

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The Truth About Thanksgiving*

by Karl Denninger- The Market-Ticker

Ok folks, in commemoration of Thanksgiving, while I sit here trying to figure out how eating a plate full of turkey has suddenly made me feel like I gained 10lbs (it couldn't have been the stuffing, fixings and cookies, could it?) I thought I'd put this out there to dispel some of the myths surrounding this holiday.

As we are told, the first settlers to this country (from Europe, natch) faced a horrible first winter, lost many of their people, and the native Americans (aka "Indians") that were here helped them the following year and thus they were able to survive and ultimately prosper. They gave thanks for their harvest and invited their Indian friends to dinner.

Well, ok, that's part of the story.

Now let's talk about the rest. https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=173281


Continued in next post
 
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Rusty34

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The result? Again, from his diary: "It made all hands very industrious, so that much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the Governor or any other could devise, and saved him a great deal of trouble, and gave far better satisfaction.

From the very day that Bradford tore up the Mayflower Compact, Plymouth began to prosper. Within a year the colonists found themselves with more food than they could eat. Flush with a bountiful harvest far in excess of their need for food and having bartered for all the goods they needed to get through the winter, they had a feast of thanks with their Indian trading partners.

Within a couple of years the colonists paid off their debt to the London Merchants and became, in fact, free men.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=173281
 
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Mary Dunsmore

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You gave us political correctness, you gave us the comp culture, and worse of all you gave us trick and treat. Please please please, don't let thanks giving work it's way over the Atlantic
 

RetiredUSN

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You gave us political correctness, you gave us the comp culture, and worse of all you gave us trick and treat. Please please please, don't let thanks giving work it's way over the Atlantic

You don't have to worry about this.

The people who basically originated the holiday were running from from the Monarchy of England and other countries like it to begin with.
 

Threegoofs

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The Truth About Thanksgiving*

by Karl Denninger- The Market-Ticker

Ok folks, in commemoration of Thanksgiving, while I sit here trying to figure out how eating a plate full of turkey has suddenly made me feel like I gained 10lbs (it couldn't have been the stuffing, fixings and cookies, could it?) I thought I'd put this out there to dispel some of the myths surrounding this holiday.

As we are told, the first settlers to this country (from Europe, natch) faced a horrible first winter, lost many of their people, and the native Americans (aka "Indians") that were here helped them the following year and thus they were able to survive and ultimately prosper. They gave thanks for their harvest and invited their Indian friends to dinner.

Well, ok, that's part of the story.

Now let's talk about the rest.

The colonists did not have money, of course. Merchants in London paid for their journey, but this put each of the colonists heavily into debt - a debt which they intended to pay off through their fruits in the New World and, they hoped, through the discovery of gold.

There was no gold (well, not on the east coast anyway.) Before the colonists arrived in Cape Cod they penned the Mayflower Compact, which you can find at The Mayflower Compact

You might recognize some of the language in that document - it is strikingly similar to the writings of Carl Marx many years later!

In part, it read: "....And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience."

The first winter was disasterous - nearly half of the Pilgrims died of starvation, pneumonia and tuberculosis. Many claim that Bradford's first wife perished that first winter, but that is not quite true - she actually fell off the Mayflower quite close to land and drowned, never making it to Plymouth (he later remarried.)

During the first two years the colony lived under what could only be called Communism, enshrined in the Mayflower Compact. Each person was accorded a "share" of the totality of what was produced at the colony, and each person was expected to do their part in working toward the common good. The land, and that upon it, was owned by the colony as a collective.

It not only did not work out, it nearly killed them all.

William Bradford wrote in his diary "For in this instance, community of property (so far as it went) was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment which would have been to the general benefit and comfort. For the young men who were most able and fit for service objected to being forced to spend their time and strength in working for other mens wives and children, without any recompense. The strong man or the resourceful man had no more share of food, clothes, etc., than the weak man who was not able to do a quarter the other could. This was thought injustice.

After the second winter, realizing that the colony had survived only through the friendship and largesse of the native Americans, and would soon perish if changes were not made, Bradford tore up the Mayflower Compact. He instead assigned each family a plot of land to be their property, to be worked as the family saw fit, and with the fruits of that land to be their own. It was the beginning of private property rights in the New World....

Continued in next post

This interpretation, while favored by historically challenged wingnut loons, is ludicrous.

Thanksgiving and the Tea Party - The New York Times

Thanksgiving socialism: The strange and persistent right-wing myth that Thanksgiving celebrates the pilgrims? discovery of capitalism.

I mean... think about it.

The First Thanksgiving, celebrating a bountiful harvest and prosperity- 1621.

Mayflower Compact dissolves- 1623.
 
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ttwtt78640

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This interpretation, while favored by historically challenged wingnut looms, is ludicrous.

Thanksgiving and the Tea Party - The New York Times

Thanksgiving socialism: The strange and persistent right-wing myth that Thanksgiving celebrates the pilgrims? discovery of capitalism.

I mean... think about it.

The First Thanksgiving, celebrating a bountiful harvest and prosperity- 1621.

Mayflower Compact dissolves- 1623.

OK, but why was the Mayflower Compact dissolved?
 

Threegoofs

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OK, but why was the Mayflower Compact dissolved?

If you’ll read the links, it was primarily about increased prosperity and new crops, allowing the colony to get rid of common land.

The ‘Tragedy of the Commons’ concept was real back then as it is now.

And the Mayflower Compact wasn’t actually dissolved- it kinda set the tone until the Mass Bay Colony was formed decades later, but the concept of common land was eliminated.
 
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ttwtt78640

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If you’ll read the links, it was primarily about increased prosperity and new crops, allowing the colony to get rid of common land.

The ‘Tragedy of the Commons’ concept was real back then as it is now.

And the Mayflower Compact wasn’t actually dissolved- it kinda set the tone until the Mass Bay Colony was formed decades later, but the concept of common land was eliminated.

That (bolded above) was the main point of the OP and it appears that you agree with it despite noting the brief existence of the Mayflower Compact being slightly out of phase with the first Thanksgiving feast.
 

calamity

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TG is a great day to eat and chill out, see family and friends, take a walk, nap, eat some more and maybe watch some football while chatting with people you haven't seen for a few years.

Except for the children in second grade, the holiday has nothing to do with the myths and false narratives we've all heard before. No, there was no thanksgiving dinner where the Indians fed hungry Pilgrims. Most of the Indians in Massachusetts were already dead by then, dying from disease at least 50 years before the Mayflower ever landed on the American shore.
 

Threegoofs

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That (bolded above) was the main point of the OP and it appears that you agree with it despite noting the brief existence of the Mayflower Compact being slightly out of phase with the first Thanksgiving feast.

The main point of the OP is that somehow Thanksgiving is some kinda capitalist holiday.

It bears little to no relationship to common property.
 

ttwtt78640

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The main point of the OP is that somehow Thanksgiving is some kinda capitalist holiday.

It bears little to no relationship to common property.

Thanksgiving is celebrated in capitalist nations and is primarily to give thanks for a bountiful harvest. The use of common land and common distribution of crops did not enhance that bounty and, in fact, was found to have hindered it.
 

JasperL

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That (bolded above) was the main point of the OP and it appears that you agree with it despite noting the brief existence of the Mayflower Compact being slightly out of phase with the first Thanksgiving feast.

That's true, but the problem with the OP is that the story is false, made up. The rules were established by the lenders, for profit no doubt, so it wasn't the equivalent of a commune. So if you want to say the Big Corporate interests who established the rules were out of touch with reality, that's fine, just be up front about WHY they allocated land plots the way they did - because their lender demanded it as a condition of the loans the settlers were forced to repay.
 

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Well, we don't know for sure there were no Natives at the feast. No one had a camera then, and we know how those nasty history books lie. But, somehow the pilgrims learned to grow corn, pumpkin squash, tobacco, etc., and hunt turkeys.

Thanksgiving to me means a day off, for family gatherings, a feast, and I am thankful. I remember the effortless way my mother made pies. She always said her crust "wasn't very good." But, it was amazing!
 

Fatty Bratwurst

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Well, we don't know for sure there were no Natives at the feast. No one had a camera then, and we know how those nasty history books lie. But, somehow the pilgrims learned to grow corn, pumpkin squash, tobacco, etc., and hunt turkeys.

Who's lying? I'm fifty and have always heard the Natives taught the Pilgrims how to hunt and farm the land.
 

Rosie1

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I was being sarcastic. The Natives probably did help the pilgrims. BTW, Has anyone been watching the PBS series on Native Americans? It's really good.
 

Threegoofs

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Thanksgiving is celebrated in capitalist nations and is primarily to give thanks for a bountiful harvest. The use of common land and common distribution of crops did not enhance that bounty and, in fact, was found to have hindered it.

Common land literally had nothing to do with the first Thanksgiving.

It also has nothing to do with why we celebrate it in the US- which is directly because of Lincoln during the Civil War.

To pretend that somehow the OP is correct is like saying the Fourth of July is a celebration of the Revolutionary War victory.
 

poweRob

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You gave us political correctness, you gave us the comp culture, and worse of all you gave us trick and treat. Please please please, don't let thanks giving work it's way over the Atlantic

T-day is the best. Generally for many of us it means 4 day weekend/holiday that is all about hanging out and eating and not about bilking your wallet.
 
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