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The Trump Foundation was a scam

veritas1 said:
Trump just wasn't adept enough to use his foundation as a cash cow by peddling influence. He needs to attend Hill University.:lol:
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See, you believe the Clinton Foundation was a scam. But it was investigated thoroughly over and over again. They found nothing.

They investigate the Trump Foundation and they find all sorts of scams.

But you still insist the Clinton Foundation is a scam and won't admit that the Trump Foundation is a scam.

That's the irrationality I'm talking about.

Trump's foundation pays $10K at a charity auction for a painting of Donald Trump which Trump uses to decorate one of his properties. That's charity money used to buy a painting for one of his properties. How is that OK?
 
veritas1 said:
I don't know how virtuous he is. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that he colluded with Russians in regard to the election and that is what matters. I do know that Hillary paid a foreign agent to use Russian sources to put together an unverified dossier which was used to get FISA warrants against her opponent. Nobody is even disputing that. They are simply ignoring it.
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1. This is not all that matters. You're just choosing to focus on collusion to ignore the other issues. The dossier said that Trump was compromised. And now we know for a fact that he was compromised regarding his Moscow Trump tower deal. Who knows what other compromising information the Russians have? It's worth investigating.

2. No one ignored it. It's just a dumb conspiracy theory:

Here is the absurd conspiracy:

Hillary gets Steele to make up a fake Dossier. Why? To spy on George Papadopolous and Carter Page because surely spying on those guys would bring Trump down. What a brilliant plan!

The conspiracy theory doesn't make any sense. If Hillary and the FBI wanted to take Trump down why didn't they go after all the stuff we're hearing about now? Why didn't the spy on someone who at least likely to have phone calls with Trump?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
So they story is that this is yet one more case where the system failed to detect fraud until the government broadly targets particular individuals.....that is called system failure.
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Red:
As an observation, yes, the system failed to detect fraud. That said, such an observation is tantamount to observing that a shackled runner failed to win or perform admirably in a race against a field of unencumbered adversaries.

As a practical matter, fraud and other collusive behaviors are among the most difficult things there are to detect, often being uncovered only as a result of the perpetrators' excess. Where fraud/collusive behavior is performed with "methodological" sophistication and restraint, it's rarely if ever detected, be the fraud procedural, statutory, regulatory, expressly pecuniary, organizationally endogenous or exogenous, or otherwise.
There is also the matter of the IRS' having faced material resource cutbacks that have, in turn, materially impeded the agency's ability to examine the legitimacy of tax return assertions and enforce the laws against fraud. (General overview for NGO directors)




After all, Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Astaire did. She just did it backwards and in high heels.
-- Ann Richards​
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
So they story is that this is yet one more case where the system failed to detect fraud until the government broadly targets particular individuals.....that is called system failure.
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You would prefer they never caught him.
 
veritas1 said:
I don't know how virtuous he is. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that he colluded with Russians in regard to the election and that is what matters. I do know that Hillary paid a foreign agent to use Russian sources to put together an unverified dossier which was used to get FISA warrants against her opponent. Nobody is even disputing that. They are simply ignoring it.
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None of his other crimes matter?
 
veritas1 said:
I don't know how virtuous he is. I haven't seen a shred of evidence that he colluded with Russians in regard to the election and that is what matters. I do know that Hillary paid a foreign agent to use Russian sources to put together an unverified dossier which was used to get FISA warrants against her opponent. Nobody is even disputing that. They are simply ignoring it.
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Hillary paid a private contractor to spy on the Russians. There's nothing there to investigate. She wasn't the one telling known Russian government agents she loves it when they tell her they will feed her dirt on her opponent.

You really don't see the difference?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
See, you believe the Clinton Foundation was a scam. But it was investigated thoroughly over and over again. They found nothing.

They investigate the Trump Foundation and they find all sorts of scams.

But you still insist the Clinton Foundation is a scam and won't admit that the Trump Foundation is a scam.

That's the irrationality I'm talking about.

Trump's foundation pays $10K at a charity auction for a painting of Donald Trump which Trump uses to decorate one of his properties. That's charity money used to buy a painting for one of his properties. How is that OK?
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As far as the CF, it depends what you mean by a scam? Did they do charity work? I suppose. Did lots of money pour in from places where Hill had influence during her term as SOS? Yes. Have donations cratered since she has no influence to sell? Yes. Does 2+2 = 4. Yes.
 
veritas1 said:
As far as the CF, it depends what you mean by a scam? Did they do charity work? I suppose. Did lots of money pour in from places where Hill had influence during her term as SOS? Yes. Have donations cratered since she has no influence to sell? Yes. Does 2+2 = 4. Yes.
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How does this statement prove Trumps foundation wasn't a scam. I get your trying to play the "hypocrite" card here but it doesn't play very well if the investigation into the CF found nothing wrong.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
1. This is not all that matters. You're just choosing to focus on collusion to ignore the other issues. The dossier said that Trump was compromised. And now we know for a fact that he was compromised regarding his Moscow Trump tower deal. Who knows what other compromising information the Russians have? It's worth investigating.

2. No one ignored it. It's just a dumb conspiracy theory:

Here is the absurd conspiracy:

Hillary gets Steele to make up a fake Dossier. Why? To spy on George Papadopolous and Carter Page because surely spying on those guys would bring Trump down. What a brilliant plan!

The conspiracy theory doesn't make any sense. If Hillary and the FBI wanted to take Trump down why didn't they go after all the stuff we're hearing about now? Why didn't the spy on someone who at least likely to have phone calls with Trump?
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No, they spied on the campaign to get whatever they could get because the FISA court believed the dossier was authentic. They were never told it was 100% unverified and unvetted. Christopher Steele admitted he had no clue whether any of it was true. These are known facts but we're supposed to think it's a "conspiracy theory". I also do not believe the dossier referenced the Trump Tower negotiations.
 
Finch said:
How does this statement prove Trumps foundation wasn't a scam. I get your trying to play the "hypocrite" card here but it doesn't play very well if the investigation into the CF found nothing wrong.
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1. I never said whether the TF was a scam or not. It very well could be.

2. There has been no serious investigation into the CF as far as "pay to play" goes.
 
Deuce said:
None of his other crimes matter?
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I haven't seen Trump charged with any crimes. Do Clinton's crimes matter? Did his serial assaults matter? Apparently not. Yet, Trump wanting to build a tower in Moscow while a private citizen is apparently an earth shaking tragedy. If nothing the Clintons did pre-WH mattered, why does Trump's business matter? It was collusion we heard about ad nauseum but that's all faded away since they've found nothing. Now it's that he wanted to build a tower or he paid off a mistress with his own money. BFD.
 
ataraxia said:
Hillary paid a private contractor to spy on the Russians. There's nothing there to investigate. She wasn't the one telling known Russian government agents she loves it when they tell her they will feed her dirt on her opponent.

You really don't see the difference?
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Spy on the Russians? She paid to have dirt dug up on Trump. She used middle men who used Russians to do it but that doesn't take away her complicity.
 
Deuce said:
It is.


There was
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Maybe we need a new investigation since the last one was obviously deficient. Since donations have plummeted 58% since the election, we can only conclude that Hill not having influence to peddle has put a damper on things. Either that, or the CF is quite inefficient at charity work and everyone wised up at the same time. I'll go with A. It hardly matters, though. The Democrats will deep six anything to do with Hillary so far that the guys who discovered the Titanic couldn't find it.:lol:
 
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veritas1 said:
No, they spied on the campaign to get whatever they could get because the FISA court believed the dossier was authentic. They were never told it was 100% unverified and unvetted. Christopher Steele admitted he had no clue whether any of it was true. These are known facts but we're supposed to think it's a "conspiracy theory". I also do not believe the dossier referenced the Trump Tower negotiations.
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Again, you can't explain the conspiracy.

They created a fake dossier to get FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page and George Popadopolous? The FISA warrants are not for the Trump Campaign but for those specific individuals.

It makes no sense to spy on Carter Page and George Papadopolous since they don't speak with Trump and would be unlikely to know any secrets.

The only thing interesting about Carter Page and George Papadopolous are Russian connections.

Your conspiracy theory makes no sense. You're just attacking the investigators. It's a classic OJ defense. You want people to believe that the investigators were biased against Trump to distract from the facts of the case. Australia alerted the FBI about Papadopolous' activities.

Exactly how much Mr. Papadopoulos said that night at the Kensington Wine Rooms with the Australian, Alexander Downer, is unclear. But two months later, when leaked Democratic emails began appearing online, Australian officials passed the information about Mr. Papadopoulos to their American counterparts, according to four current and former American and foreign officials with direct knowledge of the Australians’ role.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/...-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

Was Australia part of this conspiracy too?
 
veritas1 said:
Maybe we need a new investigation since the last one was obviously deficient. Since donations have plummeted 58% since the election, we can only conclude that Hill not having influence to peddle has put a damper on things.
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The investigation was deficient because the result wasn't what you wanted?

Of course, people donated to the CF hoping to ingratiate themselves to the future POTUS.

But unlike the Trump Foundation, the Clinton Foundation is a real charity. So if I give $10 mil to the CF maybe Hillary will meet with me but it's not because I gave her any money. I just gave money to her charity. The donation doesn't corrupt because she has nothing to gain from the donation. You can't corrupt someone by donating to their favorite charity.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
The investigation was deficient because the result wasn't what you wanted?

Of course, people donated to the CF hoping to ingratiate themselves to the future POTUS.

But unlike the Trump Foundation, the Clinton Foundation is a real charity. So if I give $10 mil to the CF maybe Hillary will meet with me but it's not because I gave her any money. I just gave money to her charity. The donation doesn't corrupt because she has nothing to gain from the donation. You can't corrupt someone by donating to their favorite charity.
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Foreigners weren't donating millions to get a photo op. You aren't that naive I hope.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Again, you can't explain the conspiracy.

They created a fake dossier to get FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page and George Popadopolous? The FISA warrants are not for the Trump Campaign but for those specific individuals.

It makes no sense to spy on Carter Page and George Papadopolous since they don't speak with Trump and would be unlikely to know any secrets.

The only thing interesting about Carter Page and George Papadopolous are Russian connections.

Your conspiracy theory makes no sense. You're just attacking the investigators. It's a classic OJ defense. You want people to believe that the investigators were biased against Trump to distract from the facts of the case. Australia alerted the FBI about Papadopolous' activities.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/...-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

Was Australia part of this conspiracy too?
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It doesn't matter who they attempted to spy on. They were part of the campaign and the warrants were issued based on phoney baloney unverified information supplied by who knows what Russian sources. They were probably laughing their asses off at the whole thing. Not only did Trump win but they also got the government to start spying on him. What better way to foment chaos over here? Oh, and Papadopolous had no "activities" other than having too much wine and running his yap trying to sound important. If something had really been going on with Russia, he's the last guy who would have known about it.
 
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veritas1 said:
Foreigners weren't donating millions to get a photo op. You aren't that naive I hope.
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Read what I said. They were donating hoping to ingratiate themselves to Hillary the future POTUS. But it's not corruption because the CF is a CHARITY. Hillary isn't corrupted by a charitable donation. She doesn't have to do anything for people who donated to her charity. She gains nothing from donations to her charity.

You have to prove that she was profiting from her charity. You can't. It's been investigated to death.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Read what I said. They were donating hoping to ingratiate themselves to Hillary the future POTUS. But it's not corruption because the CF is a CHARITY. Hillary isn't corrupted by a charitable donation. She doesn't have to do anything for people who donated to her charity. She gains nothing from donations to her charity.

You have to prove that she was profiting from her charity. You can't. It's been investigated to death.
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If a payment is made in the expectation that some policy or other will be instituted, that's called a bribe. The payment needn't go to her personally.
 
veritas1 said:
Maybe we need a new investigation since the last one was obviously deficient.
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"I didn't get the result I want, so they must be liars."

Since donations have plummeted 58% since the election, we can only conclude that Hill not having influence to peddle has put a damper on things.
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Really? You can't think of any other reason?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Again, you can't explain the conspiracy.

They created a fake dossier to get FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page and George Popadopolous? The FISA warrants are not for the Trump Campaign but for those specific individuals.

It makes no sense to spy on Carter Page and George Papadopolous since they don't speak with Trump and would be unlikely to know any secrets.

The only thing interesting about Carter Page and George Papadopolous are Russian connections.

Your conspiracy theory makes no sense. You're just attacking the investigators. It's a classic OJ defense. You want people to believe that the investigators were biased against Trump to distract from the facts of the case. Australia alerted the FBI about Papadopolous' activities.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/...-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

Was Australia part of this conspiracy too?
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Australia was not involved. But an AUSTRALIAN was. The Australian ambassador in London , Alexander Downer, a far right conservative, was the man who met with Papadopoulos in London. Downer was drunk and blabbed about what he and Papadopoulos talked about. Please don't tarnish the whole country because this buffoon can't hold his liquor.
 
Deuce said:
"I didn't get the result I want, so they must be liars."


Really? You can't think of any other reason?
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Funny - trumpsters keep ranting on about having ANOTHER investigation into Hillary's emails. These grubs won't stop until Hillary is indicted. Heck they probably have people spying on her and waiting until she jaywalks so they can arrest her.
 
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