LiberalFINGER
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LiberalFINGER said:The Theory of Evolution is not taught as fact in science classes. The very title "Theory" denotes that the Theory of Evolution is a work in progress.
Creationism does not require proof since it is based on faith and if you could prove it, then it wouldn't be faith anymore.
If a creator was proven to exist, scientist would try to figure out how it all happened.
By studying creation myths, we are able to better understand civilizations (including our own) therefore creationism has it's place.
In a well rounded liberal arts education, both evolution and creationism get the same amount of air time, but they don't end up in the same class.
LiberalFINGER said:The Theory of Evolution is not taught as fact in science classes. The very title "Theory" denotes that the Theory of Evolution is a work in progress.
bryanf said:If science is supposed to teach scietific facts (which are able to be proven), then why should we teach evolution in a science class?
In college I took a "Bible as Literature" class. It was in the English department. We learned that the Bible, the "literal Word of God" has two different creation myths, one where Adam is created first, the other where he's created last. (Hmm, maybe God couldn't remember.) I also took a biology class from the science department, where we studied Darwin's "Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection."bryanf said:I agree, and have argued that they should receive equal air time, but can you tell me somewhere that they do?
argexpat said:Fact: Snakes have rudimentary pelvic bones and vestigial legs.
Fact: Human embryos exhibit gill slits and tails.
Fact: Men have nipples.
Fact: Successive generations of viruses develop resistance to drugs over time.
Fact: A whale's "fins" are modified legs, and exhibit the same basic bone structure as the human hand.
Fact: Women menstrate according to the lunar cycle.
Fact: Bird feathers are modified scales.
Fact: plants and animals adapt to their environment.
Fact: There are flightless birds.
Fact: There are mammals that swim in the ocean and sea creatures that crawl on land.
Fact: Frogs and toads begin life as tad poles swimming in water, then grow legs and hop around on land.
Fact: The fossil record shows an evolution of species from simpler common creatures to more complex, specialized and varied creatures over time.
In college I took a "Bible as Literature" class...
argexpat said:Fact: Snakes have rudimentary pelvic bones and vestigial legs.
Fact: Human embryos exhibit gill slits and tails.
Fact: Men have nipples.
Fact: Successive generations of viruses develop resistance to drugs over time.
Fact: A whale's "fins" are modified legs, and exhibit the same basic bone structure as the human hand.
Fact: Women menstrate according to the lunar cycle.
Fact: Bird feathers are modified scales.
Fact: plants and animals adapt to their environment.
Fact: There are flightless birds.
Fact: There are mammals that swim in the ocean and sea creatures that crawl on land.
Fact: Frogs and toads begin life as tad poles swimming in water, then grow legs and hop around on land.
Fact: The fossil record shows an evolution of species from simpler common creatures to more complex, specialized and varied creatures over time.
Ok. Now we know a little bit of your background wich may actually be helpful.Which brings us back to my question. If science is supposed to teach scietific facts (which are able to be proven), then why should we teach evolution in a science class?
I'm a very literal person with a strong background in math and science (engineering, though I'm also preparing to go into law) who likes to have things cut and dry.
bryanf said:Can you see where I'm coming from, or are you just convinced that I'm a religious bigot, who arbitratily denies evolution?
Much like Jumbo Shrimp, a Baby Grand and compassionate conservatives?LiberalFINGER said:It's called devine humor. It can be found in other creations.
Military Intelligence
Conservative Democrats
Ross Perot
and the Duck Billed Platypus
(oh for the love of god, don't take me serious.)
argexpat said:bryanf, you're killing me, dude!
I see exactly where you're coming from: you arbitrarily deny evolution because it contradicts your religious beliefs. Am I close?
P.S. Why would God create flightless birds? Why? WHY???
bryanf said:No, I deny evolution because it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see how people can look at the evidence at our disposal and arbitrarily say that this is what happened, when the evidence doesn't have strong indications that that is, indeed, what happened.
bryanf said:I think that both of them are matters of faith, and personal belief. I happen to have more faith in intelligent design than in evolution.
bryanf said:Until you can prove that the 2nd law of thermodynamics in not true, I have no reason to believe that the disorder of the primordial soup could become the order that is required for complex life.
bryanf said:Order cannot come from disorder without some outside influence.
You have answered your own question.Until you can prove that the 2nd law of thermodynamics in not true, I have no reason to believe that the disorder of the primordial soup could become the order that is required for complex life. Order cannot come from disorder without some outside influence.
bryanf said:Until you can prove that the 2nd law of thermodynamics in not true, I have no reason to believe that the disorder of the primordial soup could become the order that is required for complex life. Order cannot come from disorder without some outside influence.
argexpat said:Doesn't the resurrection of Jesus violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, not to mention practically every other law of nature? In fact, that's the definition of a miracle, is that it violates the laws of nature. Turning water into wine, raising Lazarus from death, giving sight to the blind, feeding thousands with one fish and a loaf of bread...all these miracles violate the laws of nature which you cite in order to discredit evolution. Yet one of the tenets of Christianity is a belief in these very miracles.
But if you take all these "miracles" metaphorically, rather than literally, there's no need to square them with science. Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection symbolizes the possibility of our own spiritual death and rebirth. Jesus as the son of God symbolizes the brotherhood of Man. (Are we not all the children of God?) The miracle of the virgin birth symbolizes purity, fecundity, the universal womb of which we are all born. That's the beauty of a symbol, it can stand for whatever we want, in whatever way derives meaning for us. Only as metaphor does Biblical mythology have any true meaning, and Christians who take it literally are missing the whole point of Christianity and religion itself.
argexpat said:Doesn't the resurrection of Jesus violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, not to mention practically every other law of nature? In fact, that's the definition of a miracle, is that it violates the laws of nature. Turning water into wine, raising Lazarus from death, giving sight to the blind, feeding thousands with one fish and a loaf of bread...all these miracles violate the laws of nature which you cite in order to discredit evolution. Yet one of the tenets of Christianity is a belief in these very miracles.
bryanf said:On the contrary, these miracles are the evidence of an outside influence, don't you think? The outside influence which is required for disorder to become order, according to the laws of nature.
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