The terrorists in Iraq have to love what the democratics are doing.

[Simon W. Moon]

There are no pictures of rape or torture. What you refer to is called humiliation. Try to to at least pretend to be smart, will you?

Actually, there is yet to be released footage filmed by Americans of a an Iraqi boy being raped by Iraqi gaurds.

 

[MSgt]

Actually, there is yet to be released footage filmed by Americans of a an Iraqi boy being raped by Iraqi gaurds.

Wouldn't know anything about that. Sounds like rumor to me. However, sexually repressed people that are held down by their restrictive religion makes them do all sorts of things - even create rooms specifically for rape.

 

[Iriemon]

I wonder if she was ever placed in a rape room.

I wonder if the story about the rape room is true, or just some neocon and Iraqi ex-pat BS made up to demonize Hussein and justify the invasion. I had to be so skeptical, but these folks were wrong, or lied, about so many other things I have a hard time giving credibility to anything they come up with about Hussein. So much of it has been distortions and exagerrations if not outright lies.

 

[Iriemon]

There are no pictures of rape or torture. What you refer to is called humiliation. Try to to at least pretend to be smart, will you?

Are there pictures of rape under Hussein?

 

[MSgt]

I wonder if the story about the rape room is true, or just some neocon and Iraqi ex-pat BS made up to demonize Hussein and justify the invasion. I had to be so skeptical, but these folks were wrong, or lied, about so many other things I have a hard time giving credibility to anything they come up with about Hussein. So much of it has been distortions and exagerrations if not outright lies.

If the rape rooms were lies, then so was the Jewish holocaust. Now you know how easy the Nazis dismiss this historical truth.

The rooms exist and they were everywhere. It is a matter of black and white law inside the Saddam Regime. His son was the biggest enforcer of this abusive disciplinary action. There are testimonials all over the Internet by Iraqis regarding treatment before our invasion. "Rape room" are words often found in their statements.

 

[MSgt]

Are there pictures of rape under Hussein?

Why would there need to be? It was the law.

 

[KCConservative]

LOL Well, Navy Pride, I was born in 1968, so I was too young to know what happened back then.

It's called studying history. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

[Kelzie]

It's called studying history. Let us know how that works out for you.

Wow that was close. You almost had an instance of someone being nice and getting along with the opposite side. No worries, though. You came to the defense with a completely unprovoked attack 8 pages later. Way to be. :roll:

 

[Iriemon]

If the rape rooms were lies, then so was the Jewish holocaust. Now you know how easy the Nazis dismiss this historical truth.

The rooms exist and they were everywhere. It is a matter of black and white law inside the Saddam Regime. His son was the biggest enforcer of this abusive disciplinary action. There are testimonials all over the Internet by Iraqis regarding treatment before our invasion. "Rape room" are words often found in their statements.

I've seen many many pictures of the concentration camps and the Nazi concentration camp prisoners. I've never seen pictures of the "rape rooms." Since photographs appeared to be a proof requirement for you regarding claims re: abuse by US forces, I was wondering if you applied the same proof regarding claims about Saddam or whether different standards are fair game.

 

[Iriemon]

Why would there need to be? It was the law.

Do you have a source to this law?

I did a quick google search of Hussein rape room to find what the basis for these claims are. I found out that "rape room" was a phrase Bush like to use a lot. I found an article that talked about prisoner abuse and rape under Hussein, but didn't see anything substantiating the claim about "rape rooms". I'm sure it is out there. Was evidence of these rooms found after the invasion?

 

[Iriemon]

Your assertion: When we were hit on 9/11/01 by your friend Bin Laden I would have bet any amount of money that we would have many more terrorist attacks but in almost 4 years we have had none in this country......Under your hero Clinton we had them all the time...........

My challenge: What attacks happened "all the time" in this country under Clinton as you claimed?

Your response:


Are you a well trained righty who will never admit a mistake, just like our president?

An attack on a US Navy ship the USS COLE is and attack on this country.....And attack on the Kohbar towers filled with American soldiers is and attack on this country.......You hero Clinton did nothing after these attacks..........He was to busy getting BJs from a girl young enough to be his granddaughter to give a crap..............

Oh, I see, you really meant attacks "on this country," not "in this country" like you wrote.

So what you were really claiming is that there have been no attacks "on this country" since 9/11? Our leader says otherwise; he talks about terrorist attacks in Iraq all the time. You may be right -- he's probably fibbing again.

 

[MSgt]

Do you have a source to this law?

I did a quick google search of Hussein rape room to find what the basis for these claims are. I found out that "rape room" was a phrase Bush like to use a lot. I found an article that talked about prisoner abuse and rape under Hussein, but didn't see anything substantiating the claim about "rape rooms". I'm sure it is out there. Was evidence of these rooms found after the invasion?

Yeah. I've grown tired of talking to an individual who has a need to hate to excuse his profound weakness to understand the issues.

 

[Iriemon]

Yeah. I've grown tired of talking to an individual who has a need to hate to excuse his profound weakness to understand the issues.

I understand. Trying to justify the unjustifiable and argue illogical positions is exhausting.

 

[Navy Pride]

I've seen many many pictures of the concentration camps and the Nazi concentration camp prisoners. I've never seen pictures of the "rape rooms." Since photographs appeared to be a proof requirement for you regarding claims re: abuse by US forces, I was wondering if you applied the same proof regarding claims about Saddam or whether different standards are fair game.

So because you have not seen the pictures of rape rooms that means they do not exist?

Hundreds os Iraqis have testified to there existence and the rapes that Saddam's sons committed on 12 year old virgins in front of their parents and that is good enough for me........

I can see where it would not be proof for a Saddam apologist though....:roll:

 

[Iriemon]

So because you have not seen the pictures of rape rooms that means they do not exist?

Apparently so. http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146470&postcount=53 Apparently, it didn't happen if there aren't pictures.

Personally, I don't think lack of pictures necessarily means that rape and torture didn't happen, whether under Hussein or at Abu Grave. Pictures are pretty strong evidence, however, worth a 1000 words and all that. And if this were an on-going practice, I'd think some evidence of it would have been found.

But I'd even look at the testimonial transcripts, if someone can point me to them. All I found was Bush saying "rape room" over and over.

 

[MSgt]

Apparently so. http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146470&postcount=53 Apparently, it didn't happen if there aren't pictures.

Personally, I don't think lack of pictures necessarily means that rape and torture didn't happen, whether under Hussein or at Abu Grave. Pictures are pretty strong evidence, however, worth a 1000 words and all that. And if this were an on-going practice, I'd think some evidence of it would have been found.

But I'd even look at the testimonial transcripts, if someone can point me to them. All I found was Bush saying "rape room" over and over.

Brilliant. Why is it that whenever someone wants to "prove" a point they use my words all over the site? What you referenced was a statement I wrote in regards to 'Lucid' accusing Americans of raping Iraqis in Abu-Graib. What you are talking about are Saddam rape rooms of which there is plenty of "proof". They exist all over the place. I've seen them. They consisted of a bed, chains, and some chairs. Of course, the disgusting events that occurred inside these rooms haven't stopped the masses of depraved monsters in our country from creating pornography sites based around it. What is equally disgusting is an individual who would rather deny what they went through to further his hate campaign and further exonerate his lack of morality. Like I said, much of the world even denies the holocaust in Germany despite having documentaries and pictures plastered all over the media. It shows the desperation of some to excuse their personal inadequicies.

"Torture and ill-treatment is systematic and widespread in Iraq, despite its
prohibition under the Iraqi Constitution and under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Anti-government political suspects are especially at risk, and are routinely tortured or ill-treated in custody. Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives. The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of
the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes
on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape.
Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140022001

"By contrast, the Baathist have ruled Iraq. The Iraqi people know who they are, and how they will really rule. No one believes they fight for a worker’s paradise. Saddam Hussein has been recruiting allies for us for the last twenty years, with his mass graves, prisons and rape rooms."

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=9300

I guess Bush has the world's humanitarian organizations in his pocket and he has been paying them long before his Presidency.

 

[Iriemon]

Brilliant. Why is it that whenever someone wants to "prove" a point they use my words all over the site? What you referenced was a statement I wrote in regards to 'Lucid' accusing Americans of raping Iraqis in Abu-Graib. What you are talking about are Saddam rape rooms of which there is plenty of "proof". They exist all over the place. I've seen them. They consisted of a bed, chains, and some chairs. Of course, the disgusting events that occurred inside these rooms haven't stopped the masses of depraved monsters in our country from creating pornography sites based around it. What is equally disgusting is an individual who would rather deny what they went through to further his hate campaign and further exonerate his lack of morality. Like I said, much of the world even denies the holocaust in Germany despite having documentaries and pictures plastered all over the media. It shows the desperation of some to excuse their personal inadequicies.

I see. If it is an accusation about conduct of the US military, it is untrue unless there are pictures. If it is an accusation about Iraq, pictures are irrelevant.

That is what I thought was the burden of proof being applied.

"Torture and ill-treatment is systematic and widespread in Iraq, despite its
prohibition under the Iraqi Constitution and under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Anti-government political suspects are especially at risk, and are routinely tortured or ill-treated in custody. Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives. The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of
the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes
on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape.
Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140022001

Thank you, after all the shouting, this is the first source for the "rape rooms" claim that has been presented. It does mention rape as a method used against political prisoners, but says nothing about "rape rooms." Perhaps the notion of "rape rooms" is simply a word play to make it sound even more diabolical -- "rape rooms" to me conjures images of rooms were women were chained down and gang-raped and brutalized.

I agree Amnesty is a well known organization -- if you are using it here, would you agree is it fair to conclude that Amesty's assertions about the United States is also accurate?

"By contrast, the Baathist have ruled Iraq. The Iraqi people know who they are, and how they will really rule. No one believes they fight for a worker’s paradise. Saddam Hussein has been recruiting allies for us for the last twenty years, with his mass graves, prisons and rape rooms."

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=9300

I guess Bush has the world's humanitarian organizations in his pocket and he has been paying them long before his Presidency.

This is just an unsubstantiated statement by the author of an article, who has an obvious bias to boot. It doesn't purport to provide the basis for this statement or what the evidence supporting it is.

I would be like me writing: "There are no rape rooms in Iraq" and claiming that is evidence for the proposition.

Finally, I have to say, that reading the Amnesty's report, many of the things discussed are the same things our Govt did and supports. Is it a legitimate claim against Hussein, much less a justification for invading, when our Govt does these same activities?

Hussam Mohammad Jawad, a retired medical doctor, and his brother-in-law, Iyyad Jihad Shams al-Din, a lecturer at a technological university in Baghdad, are said to be held incommunicado.

Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives

The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape. Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement.

 

[MSgt]

I see. If it is an accusation about conduct of the US military, it is untrue unless there are pictures. If it is an accusation about Iraq, pictures are irrelevant.

That is what I thought was the burden of proof being applied.

No, what you "see" is a will to be argumentative. The situation of the accusations of the U.S. military is that there is no proof, because the accusation is based on lies. There are plenty of pictures of rape rooms. I have a couple myself. There are plenty of Marines and soldiers with cameras in Iraq and they use it. There have been articles written on these rooms. Maybe you should get away from the Internet and actually study the region and the situation. This is why you can't understand this "War on Terror." You want "proof" and you want the Internet to supply it for you.

Thank you, after all the shouting, this is the first source for the "rape rooms" claim that has been presented. It does mention rape as a method used against political prisoners, but says nothing about "rape rooms." Perhaps the notion of "rape rooms" is simply a word play to make it sound even more diabolical -- "rape rooms" to me conjures images of rooms were women were chained down and gang-raped and brutalized.

I agree Amnesty is a well known organization -- if you are using it here, would you agree is it fair to conclude that Amesty's assertions about the United States is also accurate?

Amnesty Iternational would do a story on an Iraqi getting splinters from some wood we provided them for schools. What they report from the U.S. military are always incidents in which people parade around and treat as it's an institution. Saddam's regime and his son was an institution. The "rape rooms" was exactly what you "conjured" up. I'll say no more on it, as it is useless. You are determined to pretend to be stupid. "Proof" isn't necessary and I'm not going to insult the situation any longer.

Finally, I have to say, that reading the Amnesty's report, many of the things discussed are the same things our Govt did and supports. Is it a legitimate claim against Hussein, much less a justification for invading, when our Govt does these same activities?

Hussam Mohammad Jawad, a retired medical doctor, and his brother-in-law, Iyyad Jihad Shams al-Din, a lecturer at a technological university in Baghdad, are said to be held incommunicado.

Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives

The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape. Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement.

More lies. Believe what you want. The quickest way to get American troops out of their country is through the American bleeding heart. You are being used by the enemy. By using words like "did" and "support", you are swimming in treasonous waters. Al-Queda loves it when Americans parade around this notion. If a former prisoner of Abu-Graib, who is released erronously because he is secretly an Al-Queda sympathizer (their are millions), gives a report to the world on how he was abused and raped and tortured, this statement is plastered all over the web, news media and on the lips of our own people. Of course, this wouldn't happen, because most "witnesses" claim to have seen it...never been victim to it. It's simple, Americans would rather find fault in their government than face the world and stand against the lies.

 

[Lucidthots]

If the rape rooms were lies, then so was the Jewish holocaust. Now you know how easy the Nazis dismiss this historical truth.

The rooms exist and they were everywhere. It is a matter of black and white law inside the Saddam Regime. His son was the biggest enforcer of this abusive disciplinary action. There are testimonials all over the Internet by Iraqis regarding treatment before our invasion. "Rape room" are words often found in their statements.

The CIA has been doing all of these types of things to people since their inception.

Torture, murder, rape, assasination.

 

[mikeey]

GySgt i wonder if u can explain to me when i come back about what i have been told from 2 brothers,who R US marines,one of them stays near me.and is married to a scot with 2 children.this is something that u no about on this forum.I have 2 go out back soon 2 give u the whole story and see what u think.

kind regards

mikeey

 

[Iriemon]

No, what you "see" is a will to be argumentative. The situation of the accusations of the U.S. military is that there is no proof, because the accusation is based on lies.

How do you know? Because there are no pictures? There are plenty of articles written about it.

There are plenty of pictures of rape rooms. I have a couple myself. There are plenty of Marines and soldiers with cameras in Iraq and they use it. There have been articles written on these rooms. Maybe you should get away from the Internet and actually study the region and the situation. This is why you can't understand this "War on Terror." You want "proof" and you want the Internet to supply it for you.

Where are the pictures. That is all I have asked. I didn't say there weren't rape rooms. I question the accuracy of these claims because of some much else that was claimed against Hussein by certain groups has turned out to be wrong, false, exagerrated or misleading. So you say there are pictures. Great. Where are they, I'd like to take a look at them.

Amnesty Iternational would do a story on an Iraqi getting splinters from some wood we provided them for schools. What they report from the U.S. military are always incidents in which people parade around and treat as it's an institution. Saddam's regime and his son was an institution. The "rape rooms" was exactly what you "conjured" up. I'll say no more on it, as it is useless. You are determined to pretend to be stupid. "Proof" isn't necessary and I'm not going to insult the situation any longer.

So is that "yes Amnesty is reliable in what they post" or they are not?

Or do you mean Amnesty is reliable when it comes to claims about Hussein's acts but not reliable when it comes to claims about US forces' acts?

I won't call you stupid. Just biased and utterly subjective. Proof is in the pudding.

US forces -- without pictures it's all lies.
Iraqis -- without pictures it's all true.

US forces -- What Amnesty says is BS
Iraqis -- What Amnesty says is true.

More lies. Believe what you want. The quickest way to get American troops out of their country is through the American bleeding heart. You are being used by the enemy.

You are being used by the Government to cover for its mistakes.

By using words like "did" and "support", you are swimming in treasonous waters.

Supporting more deaths because Bush can't admit a mistake is treasonous waters.

Al-Queda loves it when Americans parade around this notion.

Al-Queda loves it that we are continuing to kill Muslems for a lie.

If a former prisoner of Abu-Graib, who is released erronously because he is secretly an Al-Queda sympathizer (their are millions),

There are millions? I thought you said there were a couple thousand. We better pull out the nukes.

gives a report to the world on how he was abused and raped and tortured, this statement is plastered all over the web, news media and on the lips of our own people.

I'm sure the pictures were phony too. didn't happen.

Of course, this wouldn't happen, because most "witnesses" claim to have seen it...never been victim to it. It's simple, Americans would rather find fault in their government than face the world and stand against the lies.

After you've fibbed a few times, you start to lose credibility. It is a problem with fibbing.

 

[Donkey1499]

Well its starting.........Rumblings of cut and run in Iraq for the democrats just like it started in Nam.........The terrorists have to love it.......The knew the left in this country would lose the stomach for the fight and start whinning about cutting and running..........

There is a major difference now though........We have a president who does not govern by polls..........He will not bow to the left.........

Thank God for that...............

Amen Brother. The Democrats lost their balls after WW2.

 

[Iriemon]

Amen Brother. The Democrats lost their balls after WW2.

"Do not be afraid, city of Zion! Here comes you king, riding on a young donkey." - John 12:15 (TEV)

"...love you enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may become the children of your Father in Heaven... Why should God reward you if you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that! And if you speak only to your friends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that!" - Matthew 5:44-47

Maybe they read Matthew 5:9

 

[Donkey1499]

Maybe they read Matthew 5:9

Dammit!!!!!!!