The Swedish experiment of doing remarkably little about Covid-19

[Ug make hammer]

Sweden didn't do as well as her peers.

Getting a C does not mean you failed compared to your friend who got an A.

Not that Norway or Finland actually got A's though.

African nations have done amazingly well, though one is entitled to be suspicious that they're not collecting data properly. Asian nations generally got A's, led by Japan and South Korea whose figures aren't in any doubt. And small island nations in the Pacific are the only ones to have no deaths at all.

African nations may have actually benefitted from what is usually a bad health statistic: not many old people. And in common with Asia, low rates of obesity.

It's remarkable that less gets said about the stellar performance of Asian nations (A's even for poor nations, A+ for the developed ones) because we need to learn what works and what doesn't. And when I say "we" I mean we the people, not "we" as in governments. Governments need to learn restraint: giving orders that aren't followed, does not work and never will work in countries that believe in individual freedoms.

To be blunt, Americans need to lose some weight. Covid is not the only health risk they're taking.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Not that Norway or Finland actually got A's though.

African nations have done amazingly well, though one is entitled to be suspicious that they're not collecting data properly. Asian nations generally got A's, led by Japan and South Korea whose figures aren't in any doubt. And small island nations in the Pacific are the only ones to have no deaths at all.

African nations may have actually benefitted from what is usually a bad health statistic: not many old people. And in common with Asia, low rates of obesity.

It's remarkable that less gets said about the stellar performance of Asian nations (A's even for poor nations, A+ for the developed ones) because we need to learn what works and what doesn't. And when I say "we" I mean we the people, not "we" as in governments. Governments need to learn restraint: giving orders that aren't followed, does not work and never will work in countries that believe in individual freedoms.

To be blunt, Americans need to lose some weight. Covid is not the only health risk they're taking.

We have a grading scale for A, B, C,......for Covid.

Can you share that please ?

 

[Fledermaus]

Sweden didn't do as well as her peers.

Getting a C does not mean you failed compared to your friend who got an A.

Deaths per million:

Sweden 55 on the list
Norway 120 on the list
Finland 110 on the list.

She failed in comparison to her neighbors.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Deaths per million:

Sweden 55 on the list
Norway 120 on the list
Finland 110 on the list.

She failed in comparison to her neighbors.

And Denmark (1,037 deaths per million) fits in where? Are you going to use simple average, or the geometric mean, to decide if Denmark failed or succeeded?

The answer is no, btw. Drawing a line anywhere near half-way and saying some countries succeeded and others failed, is simply dumbing down. Sweden did badly even by comparison to Denmark, but no country "failed".

You'd have to show a country did literally nothing and had a really terrible result to say they failed. Sweden's government promoted safe practices to their population without enforcement, and it reflects well on the Swedish people that the result was NOT failure.

 

[Ug make hammer]

We have a grading scale for A, B, C,......for Covid.

Can you share that please ?

No. It's not my idea, I'm just trying to translate the continuum into a marking scale.

It was probably a bad idea, since peoples and their governments faced entirely different challenges. Japanese didn't have to do much at all, since they began prepared with low rates of obesity. Moroccans had to work hard for their good result, since their hospital system is bad. Putting all this on one scale is something I should not have attempted.

 

[Fledermaus]

And Denmark (1,037 deaths per million) fits in where? Are you going to use simple average, or the geometric mean, to decide if Denmark failed or succeeded?

The answer is no, btw. Drawing a line anywhere near half-way and saying some countries succeeded and others failed, is simply dumbing down. Sweden did badly even by comparison to Denmark, but no country "failed".

You'd have to show a country did literally nothing and had a really terrible result to say they failed. Sweden's government promoted safe practices to their population without enforcement, and it reflects well on the Swedish people that the result was NOT failure.

The country failed in that they didn't do everything necessary to stop the spread. Anti-maskers and Anti-vaxxers hold up Sweden as some success story when they did far, far worse than her Nordic peers

 

[HikerGuy83]

Deaths per million:

Sweden 55 on the list
Norway 120 on the list
Finland 110 on the list.

She failed in comparison to her neighbors.

Only in your opinion.

Facts say she didn't do as well as her neighbors.

Unless you have a universally accepted grading scale.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The country failed in that they didn't do everything necessary to stop the spread. Anti-maskers and Anti-vaxxers hold up Sweden as some success story when they did far, far worse than her Nordic peers

The country made a choice.

They didn't fail.

The analysis is far more complex that bulk numbers.

But, I guess we have some who think they are qualified to sit in judgement of what is failed and what isn't.

 

[HikerGuy83]

No. It's not my idea, I'm just trying to translate the continuum into a marking scale.

It was probably a bad idea, since peoples and their governments faced entirely different challenges. Japanese didn't have to do much at all, since they began prepared with low rates of obesity. Moroccans had to work hard for their good result, since their hospital system is bad. Putting all this on one scale is something I should not have attempted.

Thank you.

And you are correct.....faced entirely different challenges.

Sweden, like New York, let it into several large old-folks homes. And it killed a bunch of them.

But even after that, they seemed to suffer more surges than their neighbors including one recently during the holidays.

I question if everyone is reporting the same thing.

We've all see the discrepancies in reporting (or the claims of discrepancies anyway).

Given the political nature of this thing.....I don't know what to believe anymore. I certainly have learned to NOT trust the CDC.

 

[Sandokan]

Thank you.

And you are correct.....faced entirely different challenges.

Sweden, like New York, let it into several large old-folks homes. And it killed a bunch of them.

But even after that, they seemed to suffer more surges than their neighbors including one recently during the holidays.

I question if everyone is reporting the same thing.

We've all see the discrepancies in reporting (or the claims of discrepancies anyway).

Given the political nature of this thing.....I don't know what to believe anymore. I certainly have learned to NOT trust the CDC.

You are welcome.

You are right. According to the epidemiologist Tegnell, the death toll among the elderly is “a failure to protect our elderly who live in care homes.”

 

[Sandokan]

Sweden to offer fourth COVID vaccine jab to people aged 65 and above | Reuters

Reuters April 3, 2022

STOCKHOLM, April 4 (Reuters) - Sweden will give a fourth shot of COVID-19 vaccine to people aged 65 and above to boost their defences against the disease, the health agency said on Monday.

"For people aged 65 and over, it is now four months since the previous vaccine dose, and the protective effect of the vaccine diminishes over time," the Health Agency said in a statement.

Sweden had previously offered a fourth jab to people aged 80 or older.

Sweden abolished almost all restrictions in early March. It is hard to gauge the level of spread in Sweden as large-scale testing has ceased, but the number of patients requiring intensive care is the lowest in 18 months.

At the beginning of COVID, Swedes failed to protect elderly nursing home residents adequately. More than 50% of all death are of people living in elderly care home, which was a significant reason that deaths were higher. Good recommendation from the Health Agency for people 65 and older.

 

[Sandokan]

Sweden claims ‘vindication’ over anti-lockdown policy as Covid cases hit new low | The Week UK

Rate of positive tests has fallen from 19% at peak of pandemic to just 1.3%

AARON DRAPKIN 10 SEP 2020

Sweden is claiming a major victory in the battle against Covid-19 after recording its lowest rate of positive coronavirus tests yet despite ramping up the country’s testing regime to record levels.

The Swedish Health Ministry says that 120,000 tests have been conducted over the last week, of which just 1.3% came back positive. This rate had soared as high as 19% at the peak of the pandemic, fuelling international criticism of Sweden’s decision not to impose a lockdown and instead rely on citizens to observe social distancing and good hygiene.

But with other countries across Europe now seeing surges in infections, the authorities in Stockholm are celebrating “what one health official said was a vindication of its relatively non-intrusive Covid-19 strategy”, reports The Times.
Click link above for full article.

Sweden Covid cases hit new low, proving that it’s succeeded in its battle against the coronavirus. Time has demonstrated that their approach works. The data proved it:

Of 120,000 tests have been conducted over the last week, only1.3% came back positive. Other countries across Europe now seeing surges in infections. Sweden have a lower risk of the virus spreading than other countries, and it is now recording fewer new cases per capita than Norway. It has the lowest rate of spread in Scandinavia, with hospitalizations and deaths also at low levels. Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell claimed that almost a third of the country’s citizens could now be immune to the virus.

 

[Sandokan]

WHO data reveals Sweden has lower excess death rate than many European nations. Sweden had an excess death rate of 56 per 100,000, well below the global average of 96. By comparison, between 2020 and 2021, the UK’s excess death rate was 109, Spain’s was 111, and Germany’s was 116.

 

[Sandokan]

Sweden relied on individual citizens’ sense of “civic duty” to protect its population, with authorities advising the population to practice social distancing while schools, bars and restaurants remained open to the public, approach that worked really well.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Sweden Covid cases hit new low, proving that it’s succeeded in its battle against the coronavirus. Time has demonstrated that their approach works. The data proved it:

Of 120,000 tests have been conducted over the last week, only1.3% came back positive. Other countries across Europe now seeing surges in infections. Sweden have a lower risk of the virus spreading than other countries, and it is now recording fewer new cases per capita than Norway. It has the lowest rate of spread in Scandinavia, with hospitalizations and deaths also at low levels. Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell claimed that almost a third of the country’s citizens could now be immune to the virus.

Well that's hardly a brilliant achievement when Sweden has a vaccination rate of two thirds. I hope he's not plugging the pseudoscience that catching Covid once means you're immune for ever. Or in fact, that catching Covid provides better immunity than a vaccine (not so sure on this one, but I don't think anyone is.)

Don't use test positivity rate, for anything really. Low figures indicate only lots of testing.

And don't use current hospitalizations either. Those go up and down with the covid waves which are not in sync in every country. As of Mar 11, Sweden had nearly twice the hospitalization rate of the US, but by now they may have totally reversed.

The ONLY figure you should use is total deaths. With vaccination we no longer have to worry about hospitals being overloaded, and lasting ill health is far less significant than death. It's all about deaths now, and Sweden's policies are only middling-good by that measure. Their strategy was based on vaccines being much slower, or less effective, but the price of that is unnecessary deaths earlier in the pandemic.

I'll say again, that we should be planning to do whatever Korea did for the next pandemic. Not the US, and not Sweden.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Sweden relied on individual citizens’ sense of “civic duty” to protect its population, with authorities advising the population to practice social distancing while schools, bars and restaurants remained open to the public, approach that worked really well.

Most countries don't have those reserves of "civic duty" ... also Sweden's approach was only good by Western standards. Asians are more responsive to authority AND civic duty, so even poor nations like Thailand got good results.

Restrictions would never have needed to be so strong, if Westerners just observed basic requirements like wearing masks or not shopping when it's crowded. Bars I think would still need to be shut down, but not cafes (providing they consented to operate with more space per customer). Shutting down "non-essential" industries was a mistake: those shutdowns served mainly to keep some workers off public transport, and of course disrupted the economy in ways we are still suffering from. In the US most workers get to work by car, and alone in a car is actually less risky than being at home.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

 

[Sandokan]

Did Sweden's controversial COVID strategy pay off? In many ways it did – but it let the elderly down (theconversation.com)

Emma Frans

Published: August 12, 2022

As much of the world shut down early in the COVID pandemic, Sweden remained open. The country’s approach was controversial, with some calling it “the Swedish experiment”. But almost two-and-a-half years after the pandemic began, what can we say today about the outcomes of this “experiment”?

First, let’s recap what Sweden’s strategy looked like. The country largely stuck to its pandemic plan, originally developed to be used in the event of an influenza pandemic. Instead of lockdowns, the goal was to achieve social distancing through public health recommendations.

Swedes were encouraged to work from home if possible and limit travel within the country. In addition, people aged 70 or older were asked to limit social contact, and people with COVID symptoms were asked to self-isolate. The goal was to protect the elderly and other high-risk groups while slowing down the spread of the virus so the healthcare system wouldn’t become overwhelmed.

As the number of cases surged, some restrictions were imposed. Public events were limited to a maximum of 50 people in March 2020, and eight people in November 2020. Visits to nursing homes were banned and upper secondary schools closed. Primary schools did, however, remain open throughout the pandemic.
Click link above for full article.

In many aspects, the Sweden approach pay off. Sweden stuck to its pandemic plan, and in the long run it payed off. During the first two years, when the country was hit hard by pandemic, the total excess death was among the lowest in Europe. Sweden strategy has gone from being called “a disaster” to a “Scandinavia success.” According to the author: “Perhaps Sweden instead should be considered the control group, while the rest of the world underwent an experiment.”

 

[Sweden]

In many aspects, the Sweden approach pay off. Sweden stuck to its pandemic plan, and in the long run it payed off. During the first two years, when the country was hit hard by pandemic, the total excess death was among the lowest in Europe. Sweden strategy has gone from being called “a disaster” to a “Scandinavia success.” According to the author: “Perhaps Sweden instead should be considered the control group, while the rest of the world underwent an experiment.”

As one of the Swedish elderly - very - I thought corvid was very well handled here. I was vaccinated early and thrice.

 

[Ug make hammer]

In many aspects, the Sweden approach pay off. Sweden stuck to its pandemic plan, and in the long run it payed off. During the first two years, when the country was hit hard by pandemic, the total excess death was among the lowest in Europe. Sweden strategy has gone from being called “a disaster” to a “Scandinavia success.” According to the author: “Perhaps Sweden instead should be considered the control group, while the rest of the world underwent an experiment.”

Sweden didn't test enough, and this led to high impact on the elderly.

Sweden acted too slowly as pandemic swept country, commission finds

Sweden's response to the spread of coronavirus was too slow and preparations to handle a pandemic were insufficient, a commission investigating the country's response to COVID-19 said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

As one of the Swedish elderly - very - I thought corvid was very well handled here. I was vaccinated early and thrice.

Did the government tell you at the time you were being used as the "control in an experiment"?

Or is that just boasting after the fact.

 

[Sweden]

Sweden didn't test enough, and this led to high impact on the elderly.

Sweden acted too slowly as pandemic swept country, commission finds

Sweden's response to the spread of coronavirus was too slow and preparations to handle a pandemic were insufficient, a commission investigating the country's response to COVID-19 said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

Did the government tell you at the time you were being used as the "control in an experiment"?

Or is that just boasting after the fact.

EVERY country was conducting an experiment. No one knew what the best response would be.

In Sweden we only enter a care home when we have only a year or two - at most - left. If some people died a bit earlier it was a price worth paying to keep children in school and stop firms going bankrupt.

 

[snakestretcher]

In many aspects, the Sweden approach pay off. Sweden stuck to its pandemic plan, and in the long run it payed off. During the first two years, when the country was hit hard by pandemic, the total excess death was among the lowest in Europe. Sweden strategy has gone from being called “a disaster” to a “Scandinavia success.” According to the author: “Perhaps Sweden instead should be considered the control group, while the rest of the world underwent an experiment.”

Complete nonsense; Sweden's rates of death and infection were considerably higher than neighbouring Nordic countries which employed strict lockdown and mask-wearing measures..

Nordics: coronavirus deaths 2023 | Statista

The highest number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths in the Nordic countries as of January 13, 2023, had occurred in Sweden at 22,645.

www.statista.com

Sweden’s failed COVID strategy leaves the country deeply divided

The Swedish model became a symbol for anti-lockdown and no-mask movements across the world. But it is no longer a source of consensus at home

www.opendemocracy.net

Let's see your data.

 

[bluesmoke]

I think they are doing the right thing by not ruining the economy over this. People who are high risk are adult enough to quarantine themselves against others, right?

Ruining the economy? Really? In 2019, world GDP growth was 6.1%. Sweden's was 4.8%. China, with one of if not the toughest COVID reg, was 8.1%. The US was 5.7%.

 

[PeteEU]

In Sweden we only enter a care home when we have only a year or two - at most - left. If some people died a bit earlier it was a price worth paying to keep children in school and stop firms going bankrupt.

And yet that failed as well... Sweden's economy was the hardest hit in the Nordic region.

No all you did was to execute thousands of old people to save a few bucks on their pensions in the future.

 

[PeteEU]

Ruining the economy? Really? In 2019, world GDP growth was 6.1%. Sweden's was 4.8%. China, with one of if not the toughest COVID reg, was 8.1%. The US was 5.7%.

The thing is that it did not help the economy. Sweden record low of -7.8% in the second quarter of 2020, where as it's Nordic brothers had a far less slow down and got out of the Coronavirus economic crisis far faster.