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The Supreme Court should not be interfering on this matter of women's right to choose.

Its not a gotcha. Its just an expression of fact. You used the term "the killing of the unborn". I think its important to finish the phrase. You advocate for the killing of unborn human babies.

that wasnt that hard, was it?
Since I dont advocate for any such thing, it's not hard at all. I advocate for women's choice. If no women chose abortion, I'd be perfectly happy. That's just an expression of fact :)

I use 'unborn' because then it covers all 3 stages of pre-birth development...zygote, embryo, fetus. It's shorter, unless I want to specify a stage. Just like I use 'baby' when it's accurate...after birth.
 
Mmm.... let me tell you.... doctors do that already, it's called diagnosed and "treatment"! No government officials required! I'm having to dumb down my comments, I have no wish to lose you in intricate analogies!
My simple friend, you can infer anything you like!
The realities are YOU, accepting infanticide, women behaving like like dogs on heat? With the associated anti social diseases, mental health, disabilities and horrific destruction of humanity.
Nope, I'm not ever going to get in the sewer in which you wish to live!
Yes, I quite believe your a sucker.....lead up the garden path, creating hell on earth, because YOU cannot have aspirations, humanity, decency, honour, duty, morality..... other nations, expect nothing less! But then, your American!

...all that scottish republicrat jazz but STILL no honest answer to 'what laws/penalties do you want?'...i don't blame you...i strongly sense it would get very ugly/embarrassing for you if you were to tell the truth... ;)
 
...all that scottish republicrat jazz but STILL no honest answer to 'what laws/penalties do you want?'...i don't blame you...i strongly sense it would get very ugly/embarrassing for you if you were to tell the truth... ;)
Goodness me.... only Americans and idiots want punishments, you have this idea to fine or punish, you aren't god, you cannot judge another person, but you can with empathy and sympathy change behaviours, detrimental to the individual or those that are near to them!
Laws or penalties.... you don't even understand laws! Acts are what your talking about, and they aren't laws! speak adult! Use your words! Proper words!
 
Goodness me.... only Americans and idiots want punishments, you have this idea to fine or punish, you aren't god, you cannot judge another person, but you can with empathy and sympathy change behaviours, detrimental to the individual or those that are near to them!
Laws or penalties.... you don't even understand laws! Acts are what your talking about, and they aren't laws! speak adult! Use your words! Proper words!

...apparently there are a lot of abortion prohibitionist idiots in scotland too!:



What is the abortion law in England, Scotland and Wales?
Abortions can take place in the first 24 weeks of pregnancy in England, Scotland and Wales.
However, they have to be approved by two doctors. They must agree having the baby would pose a greater risk to the physical or mental health of the woman than a termination.
Abortions were illegal before the the introduction of the 1967 Abortion Act, which initially allowed them to take place up to 28 weeks. This was reduced to 24 weeks in 1990.
Abortions after 24 weeks are allowed only if:
  • the woman's life is in danger
  • there is a severe fetal abnormality
  • the woman is at risk of grave physical and mental injury
Since 2018, women in England have been allowed to take the second of two early abortion pills at home, rather than in a clinic. This brings the rules in line with Scotland and Wales.
 
Other lives do not have a right to live off of your resources, your body, put your body in any sort of danger for their own growth.

Wow, apparently this sure sounds like a picture of very bad parents. You have no clue to what you are talking about, for sure, to say the least.
 
Wow, apparently this sure sounds like a picture of very bad parents. You have no clue to what you are talking about, for sure, to say the least.
I do have a clue. It is based on the US Constitution and what is considered basic human rights.

Parenting has nothing to do with allowing your children to live like parasites off of you. It is about wanting your children, loving them, teaching them, willingly providing them with what they need.

Are you going to force people to adopt children who do not have parents? To take in children that need resources, love, parenting, guidance?
 
I do have a clue. It is based on the US Constitution and what is considered basic human rights.

Parenting has nothing to do with allowing your children to live like parasites off of you. It is about wanting your children, loving them, teaching them, willingly providing them with what they need.

Are you going to force people to adopt children who do not have parents? To take in children that need resources, love, parenting, guidance?

Some of us believe that is better than simply killing them.
 
Some of us believe that is better than simply killing them.
I don't agree with abortion. But I do think it should be legal because there are too many reasons and problems with making it illegal. It should be the choice of the person whose body it is. No one is forced to give their organs, their blood to others, even if they can live without. That should apply to women who are pregnant too.

Note though too how you can't answer the question about children without parents. How you try to simply this as if it is only about quantity of life, not quality of life.
 
I don't agree with abortion. But I do think it should be legal because there are too many reasons and problems with making it illegal. It should be the choice of the person whose body it is. No one is forced to give their organs, their blood to others, even if they can live without. That should apply to women who are pregnant too.

Note though too how you can't answer the question about children without parents. How you try to simply this as if it is only about quantity of life, not quality of life.

That baby growing inside the mother is NOT the mothers body.....this is how you justify killing babies....it's a lie. It is a different life than the mothers. As for adoptions, there are countless families waiting to adopt children, but besides the obvious, with the cessation of abortion, less children will be conceived because of the thought of having to give birth. Nowadays....oh well....I get pregnant, just go have an abortion, no big deal.....disgusting, to say the least.
 
LOLOLOL Why are you lying?

It's not from the majority opinion, :rolleyes: It is included...at the very end...of the decision and clearly labeled dissent and clearly he was in the minority of the 7-2 decision.

There are many arguments I could use against 'your opinion' of Renquist's dissent, but I like this one:

View attachment 67299508

I like these too:






Obviously there are some that support the minority dissent. Obviously I disagree, I dont think we'll agree on this.

It's not from the majority opinion, :rolleyes: It is included...at the very end...of the decision and clearly labeled dissent and clearly he was in the minority of the 7-2 decision.

I am not lying but your intelligence is certainly at issue. Why? Because what I quoted from isn’t from the dissent. Hell the paragraphs are numbered. What else do you need other than to follow the numbers? Mazes? Pop ups?

The majority opinion ENDS in paragraph 112. Paragraphs 110-112 are the concluding paragraphs of the majority opinion.
“110
The judgment of the District Court as to intervenor Hallford is reversed, and Dr. Hallford's complaint in intervention is dismissed. In all other respects, the judgment of the District Court is affirmed. Costs are allowed to the appellee.
111
It is so ordered.
112
Affirmed in part and reversed in part.” Paragraph 113 begins a concurrence by Justice Stewart.

“113
Mr. Justice STEWART, concurring.

114
In 1963, this Court...”

The majority opinion by Blackmun begins on paragraph 1 with the introduction of who deliverered the majority opinion.

“Mr. Justice BLACKMUN delivered the opinion of the Court.
1
This Texas federal appeal and its Georgia companion, Doe v. Bolton, 410 U.S. 179, 93 S.Ct. 739, 35 L.Ed.2d 201, present constitutional challenges to state criminal abortion legislation. The Texas statutes under attack here are typical of those that have been in effect in many States for approximately a century. The Georgia statutes, in contrast, have a modern cast and are a legislative product that, to an extent at least, obviously reflects the influences of recent attitudinal change, of advancing medical knowledge and techniques, and of new thinking about an old issue.”

I quoted from numbers between 1 and 112

“100
1. A state criminal abortion statute of the current Texas type, that excepts from criminality only a life-saving procedure on behalf of the mother, without regard to pregnancy stage and without recognition of the other interests involved, is violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
77
This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is”

Rehnquist’s dissent begins at 122.

“122
Mr. Justice REHNQUIST, dissenting.
123
The Court's opinion brings to the decision of this troubling question both extensive historical fact and a wealth of legal scholarship. While the opinion thus commands my respect, I find myself nonetheless in fundamental disagreement with those parts of it that invalidate the Texas statute in question, and therefore dissent.” https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/410/113


I didn’t quote from Rhenquist’s dissent.

You do realize the numbers 70 and 100 come between 1 and 112, placing the quoted material I cut and pasted within the majority decision.

You’re wrong and embarrassingly so. You’re no lawyer. No paralegal either. Sure as hell aren’t a mathematician.
 
I am not lying but your intelligence is certainly at issue. Why? Because what I quoted from isn’t from the dissent. Hell the paragraphs are numbered. What else do you need other than to follow the numbers? Mazes? Pop ups?

The majority opinion ENDS in paragraph 112. Paragraphs 110-112 are the concluding paragraphs of the majority opinion.
“110
The judgment of the District Court as to intervenor Hallford is reversed, and Dr. Hallford's complaint in intervention is dismissed. In all other respects, the judgment of the District Court is affirmed. Costs are allowed to the appellee.
111
It is so ordered.
112
Affirmed in part and reversed in part.” Paragraph 113 begins a concurrence by Justice Stewart.

“113
Mr. Justice STEWART, concurring.

114
In 1963, this Court...”

The majority opinion by Blackmun begins on paragraph 1 with the introduction of who deliverered the majority opinion.

“Mr. Justice BLACKMUN delivered the opinion of the Court.
1
This Texas federal appeal and its Georgia companion, Doe v. Bolton, 410 U.S. 179, 93 S.Ct. 739, 35 L.Ed.2d 201, present constitutional challenges to state criminal abortion legislation. The Texas statutes under attack here are typical of those that have been in effect in many States for approximately a century. The Georgia statutes, in contrast, have a modern cast and are a legislative product that, to an extent at least, obviously reflects the influences of recent attitudinal change, of advancing medical knowledge and techniques, and of new thinking about an old issue.”

I quoted from numbers between 1 and 112

“100
1. A state criminal abortion statute of the current Texas type, that excepts from criminality only a life-saving procedure on behalf of the mother, without regard to pregnancy stage and without recognition of the other interests involved, is violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
77
This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is”

Rehnquist’s dissent begins at 122.

“122
Mr. Justice REHNQUIST, dissenting.
123
The Court's opinion brings to the decision of this troubling question both extensive historical fact and a wealth of legal scholarship. While the opinion thus commands my respect, I find myself nonetheless in fundamental disagreement with those parts of it that invalidate the Texas statute in question, and therefore dissent.” https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/410/113


I didn’t quote from Rhenquist’s dissent.

You do realize the numbers 70 and 100 come between 1 and 112, placing the quoted material I cut and pasted within the majority decision.

You’re wrong and embarrassingly so. You’re no lawyer. No paralegal either. Sure as hell aren’t a mathematician.
Nice try. I'm not going back to look for your original quote. You posted nothing here that supports your claim or even shows you can articulate how it reflects on Due Process and abortion. There were 'dissenting opinions' on other cases all thru the RvW decision.

You fail again. You cannot show specifically how Due Process fails to support a right to privacy re: abortion. You take alot of time and effort to avoid doing so.

Out of context as you posted it...'77' doesnt even make sense. And '100' agrees with me and the RVW decision :rolleyes:

Wow, just wow. Try again, maybe using your own words...cuz you completely failed using theirs :rolleyes:
 
Nice try. I'm not going back to look for your original quote. You posted nothing here that supports your claim or even shows you can articulate how it reflects on Due Process and abortion. There were 'dissenting opinions' on other cases all thru the RvW decision.

You fail again. You cannot show specifically how Due Process fails to support a right to privacy re: abortion. You take alot of time and effort to avoid doing so.

Out of context as you posted it...'77' doesnt even make sense. And '100' agrees with me and the RVW decision :rolleyes:

Wow, just wow. Try again, maybe using your own words...cuz you completely failed using theirs :rolleyes:

You posted nothing here that supports your claim or even shows you can articulate how it reflects on Due Process and abortion. There were 'dissenting opinions' on other cases all thru the RvW decision.

There were two dissents in Roe v Wade. But that doesn’t matter because the dissents numerically come after 112!

And I have articulated in several posts why the Roe decision was an incorrect interpretation of the 14th Amendment Due Process Clause. You recognized those posts as well as you recognized the numbered paragraphs of the majority decision I quoted from.

You cannot show specifically how Due Process fails to support a right to privacy re: abortion. You take alot of time and effort to avoid doing so.

Nope. I did. But if your math skills are any reflection at recognizing those posts and their substance, then that explains why you missed them, including the posts I specifically addressed to you.

Out of context as you posted it...'77' doesnt even make sense. And '100' agrees with me and the RVW decision

More nonsense. Paragraph 77 isn’t out of context, and makes perfect sense. Paragrpah 77 tells the reader where the Court is rooting the right to privacy, and it is in the word “liberty” of the DPC of the 14th Amendment. They explicitly say that and you bizarrely say it doesn’t make sense. Yes, to someone who doesn’t know what they are doing or reading it doesn’t make sense. To the rest of the world who can read and understand plain English, what the Court said is lucid and explicit, just not to you.

Try again, maybe using your own words...cuz you completely failed using theirs

Nonsense. I quoted specifically from the majority opinion. The link has the dang numbered paragraphs and shows I cut and pasted accurately from it.
 
There was only ONE dissent in Roe v Wade. Rehnquist was joined by White but White didn’t separately write a dissent.

And I have wrote in several posts why the Roe decision was an incorrect interpretation of the 14th Amendment Due Process Clause. You recognized those posts as well as you recognized the numbered paragraphs of the majority decision I quoted from.

Nope. I did. But if your math skills are any reflection at recognizing those posts and their substance, then that explains why you missed them, including the posts I specifically addressed to you.

More nonsense. Paragraph 77 isn’t out of context, and makes perfect sense. Paragrpah 77 tells the reader where the Court is rooting the right to privacy, and it is in the word “liberty” of the DPC of the 14th Amendment. They explicitly say that and you bizarrely say it doesn’t make sense. Yes, to someone who doesn’t know what they are doing or reading it doesn’t make sense. To the rest of the world who can read and understand plain English, what the Court said is lucid and explicit, just not to you.

Nonsense. I quoted specifically from the majority opinion, concurring opinion, and LONE dissenting opinion. The link has the dang numbered paragraphs and shows I cut and pasted accurately from it.
Wow. I'm not sure you can read, seriously. That 'liberty' was clearly defined in other passages AND I posted a SCOTUS opinion on it elswhere. The dissent was one person's disagreement with that use of 'liberty.' That's it. Period. The Texas state case got mostly blown out of the water and failed on the premises you are trying to say the bench supported. :rolleyes:

Here's what I posted earlier, as discussed in Casey. Care to explain why that definition of liberty doesn't carry over into RvW?

1602902005525.png

"Central to the liberty protected by the 14th Amendment."
 
Wow. I'm not sure you can read, seriously. That 'liberty' was clearly defined in other passages AND I posted a SCOTUS opinion on it elswhere. The dissent was one person's disagreement with that use of 'liberty.' That's it. Period. The Texas state got mostly blown out of the water and failed on the premises you are trying to say the bench supported. :rolleyes:

I'll go find the post or quote that I shared earlier.

Wow. I'm not sure you can read, seriously.

LOL! Coming from someone who erroneously told me I quoted from the dissent because they couldn’t read the majority decision, with corresponding numbered paragraphs, and ascertain I had in fact quoted from the majority decision. I even included the link!

And mystifyingly you are still discussing the dissent when I could not care less. I’ve never cited to or quoted from the dissent.
 
LOL! Coming from someone who erroneously told me I quoted from the dissent because they couldn’t read the majority decision, with corresponding numbered paragraphs, and ascertain I had in fact quoted from the majority decision. I even included the link!

And mystifyingly you are still discussing the dissent when I could not care less. I’ve never cited to or quoted from the dissent.
And that's not an answer. It is a dissenting opinion...LOLOL why are you denying it? GIve me the # of it in the majority opinion. I guess I missed it.

At this point however, since you cant or wont articulate anything on your own, I'm not sure it matters...but I am interested. And dont miss the rest of post 228...there's more to it than you complaining I missed something. I showed where you werent understanding the justices' opinions.
 
Wow. I'm not sure you can read, seriously. That 'liberty' was clearly defined in other passages AND I posted a SCOTUS opinion on it elswhere. The dissent was one person's disagreement with that use of 'liberty.' That's it. Period. The Texas state case got mostly blown out of the water and failed on the premises you are trying to say the bench supported. :rolleyes:

Here's what I posted earlier, as discussed in Casey. Care to explain why that definition of liberty doesn't carry over into RvW?

View attachment 67299951

"Central to the liberty protected by the 14th Amendment."

What the hell are you talking about? Carry over into Roe? What the hell? Do you know when Casey was decided in relation to Roe? Do you?
 
What the hell are you talking about? Carry over into Roe? What the hell? Do you know when Casey was decided in relation to Roe? Do you?
It's a solid definition that flies in the face of what you've provided. Why wont you just deal with reality and use your own words? All you do is hide and be evasive. I'm pretty sure you cant do this on your own...you are certainly failing so far.

When a time comes to revisit RvW, if it is revisited, such things will carry weight.
 
Yep, you did miss it. You can re-read post number 285. https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...womens-right-to-choose.423062/post-1072817469

I never quoted from the dissent until post 285 and did so in post 285 to illuminate your nonsense I quoted from the dissent previously. You’re embarrassing yourself now.
No, I'm just not putting in that kind of effort to track things down when you could just post then and articulate in your own words how they apply to abortion/RvW.

And you continue to do so. You are the one that should be embarrassed...all you can do is cut and paste and hope no one looks too deeply at what you're trying to sell.
 
And that's not an answer. It is a dissenting opinion...LOLOL why are you denying it? GIve me the # of it in the majority opinion. I guess I missed it.

At this point however, since you cant or wont articulate anything on your own, I'm not sure it matters...but I am interested. And dont miss the rest of post 228...there's more to it than you complaining I missed something. I showed where you werent understanding the justices' opinions.

I understand their opinions better than you, every hour of the day, 7 days a week. You couldn’t even recognize I had quoted directly from the majority decision of Roe. What you missed was what I quoted from in the majority decision of Roe was fundamental to the majority decision of Roe, and you missed it by erroneously asserting I quoted from a dissent, specifically Rhenquist’s dissent.

At this point however, since you cant or wont articulate anything on your own, I'm not sure it matters

I have already done so, in several posts, some of those posts addressed directly to you. I was explicit about my criticisms. You missed em, just as you missed that I quoted directly from the majority opinion of Roe.
 
The gist of Citizens is that money is free speech and Corporations have the same rights a people. Neither is incorporated in our constitution. You can try and dress it up as you want, but those are the facts. In the end, Citizens is based on the same basis ae Roe, interpretations of our constitution. Both were interpreted wrong.
Somebody has to worry about senseless murder because the democrats are ok with killing defenseless babies in the womb. Democrats have no ethics when it comes to being responsible for ones actions and life's choices. The "it's not your fault" mentality by democrats is ruining the world.
 
I understand their opinions better than you, every hour of the day, 7 days a week. You couldn’t even recognize I had quoted directly from the majority decision of Roe. What you missed was what I quoted from in the majority decision of Roe was fundamental to the majority decision of Roe, and you missed it by erroneously asserting I quoted from a dissent, specifically Rhenquist’s dissent.

I have already done so, in several posts, some of those posts addressed directly to you. I was explicit about my criticisms. You missed em, just as you missed that I quoted directly from the majority opinion of Roe.
That's right, I dont have it memorized. Now, post the # for location in the opinion...unless you cant?

You have not directly explained the passages you posted re: liberty specifically to RvW or abortion. You are lying. Or...give me the post numbers.

And again, your minority opinion definition is not the only one out there. Kennedy's proves that. As far as I can see, you are all talk and no substance.
 
It's a solid definition that flies in the face of what you've provided. Why wont you just deal with reality and use your own words? All you do is hide and be evasive. I'm pretty sure you cant do this on your own...you are certainly failing so far.

When a time comes to revisit RvW, if it is revisited, such things will carry weight.

Oh yeah? That’s interesting. How exactly is what you cited to “flies in the face of what you've provided” from Roe? How? Answer is it doesn’t. Hell, Kennedy, who you referenced, is telling the reader his comments are consistent with the language of the majority decision that I quoted from in Roe.

Why wont you just deal with reality and use your own words? All you do is hide and be evasive. I'm pretty sure you cant do this on your own...you are certainly failing so far.

I’m “pretty sure you can’t” understand why you’re above remarks are wrong because you can’t even get it right as to what is or isn’t the majority and dissenting opinion of Roe. Hence, to obscure your inability to understand my view, you claim me as evasive. I suppose the majority opinion of Roe with easy to follow along numbered paragraphs was also being “evasive” as you couldn’t figure out I quoted from numbered paragraphs in the majority decision of Roe, whereas you mysteriously said I quoted from the dissent. That bewildering numbering system, those evasive bastards choosing to number the paragraphs to make it easier to know whether one is reading from a majority, concurrenice, or dissent.

I have articulated my view. You’ve missed it just as you missed the easy to follow numbering system of the opinion in Roe, that is there to assist in knowing which parts are the majority, concurrence, and dissent.
 
And again, your minority opinion definition is not the only one out there. Kennedy's proves that. As far as I can see, you are all talk and no substance.

What the hell are you talking about? Kennedy has a “minority opinion definition”?

That's right, I dont have it memorized. Now, post the # for location in the opinion...unless you cant?

You have not directly explained the passages you posted re: liberty specifically to RvW or abortion. You are lying. Or...give me the post numbers.

I am not lying but your intelligence is well...

Explain the passages? They speak for themselves. What part of the plain English language of paragraphs 77 and 100 do you fail to understand?
 
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I think I got here becuase a condom broke. Maybe I should kill myself?
The what if this happened excuses are such a small fraction of the number of abortions, rape, incest, health of the mother, these all make up less than 3% of all the abortions. This is a human life. If you don't believe that then you have bought into the left wing propaganda.
 
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