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The Success of Communist Efforts at Ideological Subversion in the USA Today.

Please accept my apology for interrupting the fictional world you live in where the "Communists are subverting The USA".

The 1920's Red Scare called, they want their talking points back.

The deep irony here is that the left is full on Red Scare as we speak, have been since 2016. Everyone who disagrees with y'all are lablled Russian trolls. The only reason Trump won was cuz Russia. We had 3 years of Russia, Russia, Russia...please.
 
The peasants of Russia owned nothing. Collective ownership was very appealing to them. Everybody was promised bread, land, and work. Most Americans have such necessities. Collectivism would not appeal to Americans.

There are working poor in America, but there are more obvious solutions than resorting to a Marxist economic system. I don’t even think the majority of the working American poor would support a Communist economy over less radical options. Unlike the peasants of Russia and China, the American working poor know what freedom is.


“John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

― Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress

I don't think to many working class White Americans are buying into the promised Utopia, because they have seen too many times that the Progressives, when handing out largess, sneer at them and say, "You're white privilege means you don't Qualify, go die in a fire!"

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If I ever find any of this commie scare stuff believable in the slightest, please, someone . . . put me out of my misery. Run me down with your car. Shoot me. Throw me in a bath full of water and toss a hairdryer in after me. Toss me down some stairs. Set me on fire. Blow up my house. Take me out with a crossbow. Roll a boulder over me. Get your attack dogs to rip me to pieces. Launch me on a trebuchet across a field and onto a gigantic sharpened stick. Feed me raw chicken. Cut my head off and use it as a bowling ball.

My quality of life would be zero.

If I start talking about encroaching communism, I am begging to be put down, because I would have nothing worth living for.

Why do you think this?
 
Communism has been dead since the 1980's.

The only communist country left is North Korea. I don't see North Korea as that much of a threat.
 
Here are the four stages:

1. Demoralization: Destroy religion; encourage decadence and consumerism; remove responsibility from the community and give it to bureaucrats; give undue power to unelected individuals (journalists, media figures, etc.); demonize law enforcement, praise criminals; exploit trade unions to promote ideology of "equality" that can never be achieved.
Thoughts?

1. There is little to no communism in the US so there is that.

2. Religion is being destroyed by at least the following 2 things IMO
a. religion itself, religion has been so unwilling to acknowledge the changing of the times and tides that it has become too extreme and too rigid for a lot of people to want to be part of. That has nothing to do with communism but with religion itself
b. hyper individualism as preached by libertarians and a lot of the right has created ultimately selfish people who do not feel at home in religions because they are under the impression that they alone are worthy of salvation/rights.

3. how on earth is communism to blame for decadence and consumerism? In fact communism despises those things (another reason why communism can never work). The things you name are to be blamed on hyper capitalism, not communist.

4. what responsibility by the community is meant here? Bureaucracy is a very subjective definition because what some feel is bureaucracy others in the community see as a vital function of the government. All societies and governments are "plagued" by bureaucrats in general. It again has nothing to do with communism.

5.
give undue power to unelected individuals (journalists, media figures, etc.)
You do know that a free press is one of the things that does not exist in communism? And how is power given to it? It gets the power people put into it. So far none of the things you have presented have anything to do with "communism".

6.
demonize law enforcement, praise criminals
One more example of naming something that is more at home in a dictatorial or communist regime than in a free and democratic society. Thank goodness the US is allowed to criticize law enforcement (especially valid criticism). That law enforcement has been given such an unhealthy air of " not being allowed to criticize" is something that is very very bad and again, more at home in dictatorial/communist regimes.

And what you call demonizing law enforcement other people see as finally exposing an unhealthy way of enforcing the law and trying to correct it. Shooting innocent people, semi executing other people who may not be a real threat, corruption, racism, illogical jail sentences, etc. etc. etc. is something that has to be discussed. That the right sees this as demonizing is more about their beatifying of law enforcement (ignoring all their flaws and behaviors) and demonizing the people who come in contact with the police than it is about demonizing/praising criminals.
Especially as I cannot remember a lot of criminals being praised.

7.
exploit trade unions to promote ideology of "equality" that can never be achieved
this is another example of the problems with unbridled capitalism than with communism. Trade unions can be a negative influence, but they do not need to be if both sides are realistic. France is a very bad example about how trade unions work, just like the UK was in the past. And the US also has a bad system of "trade unions" IMO. But I doubt that has to do with communism but with representing the members of a union.
The issue is that the companies have so much power that the gross enriching of the leadership goes fully at the expense of the people who earn that money in the company, aka the employees.
Unions try to get fair wages, not equality as that is impossible to achieve as a trade union. No trade union normally wants equality, but fair wages and fair pay increases if there is room for this in a company. Because if the CEO gives himself and 100 million pay increase/bonus and then demands that 10% of the staff is being fired or employees are not getting a pay increase, well then trade unions are there to protect the employees. That is not communism that is a sense of comradery and standing up for fairness and rights.
 
1. There is little to no communism in the US so there is that.

2. Religion is being destroyed by at least the following 2 things IMO
a. religion itself, religion has been so unwilling to acknowledge the changing of the times and tides that it has become too extreme and too rigid for a lot of people to want to be part of. That has nothing to do with communism but with religion itself
b. hyper individualism as preached by libertarians and a lot of the right has created ultimately selfish people who do not feel at home in religions because they are under the impression that they alone are worthy of salvation/rights.

3. how on earth is communism to blame for decadence and consumerism? In fact communism despises those things (another reason why communism can never work). The things you name are to be blamed on hyper capitalism, not communist.

4. what responsibility by the community is meant here? Bureaucracy is a very subjective definition because what some feel is bureaucracy others in the community see as a vital function of the government. All societies and governments are "plagued" by bureaucrats in general. It again has nothing to do with communism.

5.
You do know that a free press is one of the things that does not exist in communism? And how is power given to it? It gets the power people put into it. So far none of the things you have presented have anything to do with "communism".

6.
One more example of naming something that is more at home in a dictatorial or communist regime than in a free and democratic society. Thank goodness the US is allowed to criticize law enforcement (especially valid criticism). That law enforcement has been given such an unhealthy air of " not being allowed to criticize" is something that is very very bad and again, more at home in dictatorial/communist regimes.

And what you call demonizing law enforcement other people see as finally exposing an unhealthy way of enforcing the law and trying to correct it. Shooting innocent people, semi executing other people who may not be a real threat, corruption, racism, illogical jail sentences, etc. etc. etc. is something that has to be discussed. That the right sees this as demonizing is more about their beatifying of law enforcement (ignoring all their flaws and behaviors) and demonizing the people who come in contact with the police than it is about demonizing/praising criminals.
Especially as I cannot remember a lot of criminals being praised.

7.
this is another example of the problems with unbridled capitalism than with communism. Trade unions can be a negative influence, but they do not need to be if both sides are realistic. France is a very bad example about how trade unions work, just like the UK was in the past. And the US also has a bad system of "trade unions" IMO. But I doubt that has to do with communism but with representing the members of a union.
The issue is that the companies have so much power that the gross enriching of the leadership goes fully at the expense of the people who earn that money in the company, aka the employees.
Unions try to get fair wages, not equality as that is impossible to achieve as a trade union. No trade union normally wants equality, but fair wages and fair pay increases if there is room for this in a company. Because if the CEO gives himself and 100 million pay increase/bonus and then demands that 10% of the staff is being fired or employees are not getting a pay increase, well then trade unions are there to protect the employees. That is not communism that is a sense of comradery and standing up for fairness and rights.

You're being rational with them. That's a mistake, in my opinion. But that post is solid.
 
2. Destabilization: Increased radicalization; unable to compromise on anything and society becomes more antagonistic; leaders of minority groups (LGBT, Blacks, etc.) become more radical and more violent while simultaneously gathering more sympathy/support from society; Elected official groups collapse and unelected revolutionary committees rise to power with "big ideas" on moving forward.
Thoughts?

1. More examples of things that may not have anything to do with communism but with a lack of social cohesion in a society. Sadly the way the US was started and the political system within has increased this problem to the maximum.

If you only have 2 political parties and at least one of the parties has fallen into the clutches of a very radical and uncompromising current within that party, you are going to have increased radicalization because the middle ground has been all but given up by people. Being unable to compromise comes IMO in the US from it's political system which has encompassed all things in society. Judges, sheriffs, school boards, etc. etc. etc. Everything has become a political issue rather than a civil issue. That breeds radicalization. It is natural selection, a system in which compromise and reason has been abandoned for right fighting and domineering in all sections of society. That is not inherently communist but typically seen in systems that do not have a lot of choices.

Like in the US, you are one thing or another, you are republican or democrat. There is no other option. That causes radicalization. Sadly these things do not happen in a lot of countries during a time of crisis because then there is an underlying feeling of "putting the differences aside and striving for a solution" but sadly with the way the US political system's level of partisanship and lack of willingness to compromise has lead to where the US is now, a very unhealthy political system with machinations, corruption and dirty tactics. Voter suppression has been taken to new heights to keep the party in power to remain in power. Again, that breeds radicalization and it again has nothing to do with communism. It is a thing of all societies but most of all societies in which there are only 2 choices and politics has been so encapsulated of all life that everything has become a political battle.

2.
leaders of minority groups (LGBT, Blacks, etc.) become more radical and more violent while simultaneously gathering more sympathy/support from society
Again, not sure what this has to do with communism, this has to do with libertarian/liberal views clashing with archaic and anti-revolutionary/anti-progressive ideologies.

If the people in power (both parties to some degree) have been standing in the way of the liberating and protecting of minority groups, well then again you see radicalization on both fronts. Radical factions of minority groups not wanting to keep being shot down from the powers that be and radical factions in the "powers that be" who feel threatened by those minority groups standing up for equal rights.

And that is what this is all about equal rights for minorities and people who feel threatened by minorities demanding equality. But again, not a sign of communism but a sign of societal change.

3.
Elected official groups collapse and unelected revolutionary committees rise to power with "big ideas" on moving forward.

I do not see this as a sign of communism but a sign of the changing times in the US where people are fed up with the 2 party system and the systemic corruption and money wasting this has caused. And there is no fear of them "rising to power" unless it is from "anti-revolutionary" groups that use weapons to rise to power. Liberals are mostly trying to move through democratic means, the risk of a leftist coup in the US is negligible.

The only way forward is through democratic and electoral means and for that to happen people are going to have to unite and work together, something that is also the complete anthesis of the communist way of thinking which is all about dictating and undemocratic means whereas the option for the US to move forward can only be achieved through an electoral revolution of people compromising and working together.
 
You're being rational with them. That's a mistake, in my opinion. But that post is solid.

Being rational is the best antidote to communism and fascism IMO. They are movements that ride and exist purely based on emotion and lack of rationality/thinking. Therefor we must be more rational and thinking to prevent a society from being taken over by those who are against reason and rationality.
 
I would feel less ridiculous making posts about the upcoming zombie invasion from Jupiter, but yeah, worrying about Communism is pretty funny too.
 
Yes. The right is weak and powerless to stop it

Keep on talking and sneering and bragging.

Please, keep on telling America what you really plan to do, that you know it is illegal, and you can do it anyway, because you've got the Voter Fraud machinery...

We are keenly listening!
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Keep on talking and sneering and bragging.

Please, keep on telling America what you really plan to do, that you know it is illegal, and you can do it anyway, because you've got the Voter Fraud machinery...

We are keenly listening!
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Does it bother you that the right is so weak and powerless and the left took over everything without ever firing a shot?
 
Being rational is the best antidote to communism and fascism IMO. They are movements that ride and exist purely based on emotion and lack of rationality/thinking. Therefor we must be more rational and thinking to prevent a society from being taken over by those who are against reason and rationality.

I understand the idea to be rational in the face of such irrationality, but if they will simply never respond to it, then . . . I don't know what the answer is. Maybe psychology or a behavioral economics study on how to communicate ideas to the irrational. I have nothing. They just keep coming back with crazy, and each week the crazy gets crazier, it seems.
 
Keep on talking and sneering and bragging.

Please, keep on telling America what you really plan to do, that you know it is illegal, and you can do it anyway, because you've got the Voter Fraud machinery...

We are keenly listening!
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You're no longer part of the conversation. Listen all you like. We aren't talking to you anymore.
 
I understand the idea to be rational in the face of such irrationality, but if they will simply never respond to it, then . . . I don't know what the answer is. Maybe psychology or a behavioral economics study on how to communicate ideas to the irrational. I have nothing. They just keep coming back with crazy, and each week the crazy gets crazier, it seems.
But it does not have to respond to the irrationals, it has to unify and strengthen the middle, the reasonable ones IMO.
 
But it does not have to respond to the irrationals, it has to unify and strengthen the middle, the reasonable ones IMO.

Talking past them, okay.
 
You're no longer part of the conversation. Listen all you like. We aren't talking to you anymore.
And yet here you are talking to me.

We're busy having a conversation about you, with the Prosecutors and Police.

Domestic Terrorism is illegal.

BLM is just about to become a Domestic Terrorism Organization. Go ahead, Riot after you lose.
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Does it bother you that the right is so weak and powerless and the left took over everything without ever firing a shot?

I don't need or want to fire a shot. I've got the law, the Constitution, the police, and the vast majority of the American People behind me.

I believe in the Rule-of-Law!


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And yet here you are talking to me.

We're busy having a conversation about you, with the Prosecutors and Police.

Domestic Terrorism is illegal.

BLM is just about to become a Domestic Terrorism Organization. Go ahead, Riot after you lose.
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I'm talking with you from pure enjoyment because you are no longer part of the conversation. You have already evaporated forever from the conversation, and that gives me joy.

I can't help but want to keep you around, in order to sustain that joy.

This forum is such stress relief.

BLM is not a terrorist organization.

The United States government is in favor of the idea that black people are human beings.
 
I don't need or want to fire a shot. I've got the law, the Constitution, the police, and the vast majority of the American People behind me.

I believe in the Rule-of-Law!


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That's nice.

You remain weak and powerless.


HAHAHAHAHA
 
I'm talking with you from pure enjoyment because you are no longer part of the conversation. You have already evaporated forever from the conversation, and that gives me joy.

I can't help but want to keep you around, in order to sustain that joy.

This forum is such stress relief.

BLM is not a terrorist organization.

The United States government is in favor of the idea that black people are human beings.

I see, this is your socialist utopia?
 
That's nice.

You remain weak and powerless.


HAHAHAHAHA

Yes, exactly. It's nice, isn't it?

After all of these years of watching old white American men claim to be victims, they have finally, through their own ineptitude, maneuvered themselves into exactly that position.

It's so great.

It's as if they decided to beat themselves to death with a stick.
 
I see, this is your socialist utopia?

Your opinion about it doesn't matter, because you no longer have a voice, and that is wonderful.

Our democracy has rejected your views, American style.

It has literally judged your views to be unAmerican.
 
Talking past them, okay.

You cannot reason with those beyond reason, you have to place them for a fait accompli (a done deal) between the rational forces and place them for a done deal which they have to accept. Like ending the electoral college for example. The extremists will not want this to be done because it gives them the best hope of winning the presidency. So you have to work with other reasonable people to decide this and then it is something that is the norm from then on. Which will end the workable tactic of voter suppression and would make for example the republicans to be the true "big tent" party again and would make the less leftist members of the Democratic party be able to stand up for themselves again. Again IMO.
 
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