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The Sole Purpose Of The Us Government

Robodoon

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

That was the whole reason behind the USA government.

IT IS NOT DOING THAT TODAY, IT IS DOING THE OPPOSITE!

SO whats it purpose? It is becoming an Abomination to Americans, it is doing everything its not suppose to do and nothing it is suppose to do.

YET THE DROOLING AMERICAN MASSES, just keep waving our flag....but what does that flag mean today, certianly not what it was intended to do.

How are we different then the Germans during hitlers time?

EVEN RUSSIA holds us in contempted because of the published plans of the NEO CON NUTS, who do not speak for the American people, but seem to be guiding the ship.

MOSCOW TIMES commenting on PNAC
"Not since Mein Kampf has a geopolitical punch been so blatantly telegraphed years ahead of the blow."
WHO DOES OUR LEADERS WORK FOR?, THEY DON'T WORK FOR WE THE PEOPLE.

WE JUST WANTED TO LIVE OUR LIVES AND BE LEFT ALONE , THE IDEA of spreading democracy as claimed, has our FOUNDERS spinning in their GRAVES.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OUR FOUNDERS HATED DEMOCRACY! THAT IS WHY THEY LEFT US A REPUBLIC IF WE COULD KEEP IT, WE COULD NOT, WE LOSE AND SO DOES THE WORLD

Daniel Webster
"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."

"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may ovenvhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."

"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary.

"Let us cherish these sentiments, and extend this influence still more widely; in full conviction that that is the happiest society which partakes in the highest degree of the mild and peaceful spirit of Christianity."

"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it."

"The hand that destroys the Constitution rends our Union asunder forever."
 

Korimyr the Rat

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If the sole purpose of Government is to secure those rights, how do you reconcile this with your belief that pornography should be illegal?
 

Robodoon

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Korimyr the Rat said:
If the sole purpose of Government is to secure those rights, how do you reconcile this with your belief that pornography should be illegal?
Because part of Claim to Liberty, is morality.

George Washington

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

John Quincy Adams
July 4, 1821

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.
"From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct."
 

Calm2Chaos

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Robodoon said:
Because part of Claim to Liberty, is morality.

George Washington

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

John Quincy Adams
July 4, 1821
Who's morality? Your morality? Do I have t live freely under YOUR moral guidlelines. Who's morality is it that we are supposed to follow?
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Robodoon said:
Because part of Claim to Liberty, is morality.
So, you are conceding that the government has a legitimate role in enforcing moral values amongst the citizenry?

How do you reconcile that with the belief that the public schools attempting to teach proper moral conduct is "Communism"?
 

Gaivs Ivlivs

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Robodoon said:
Because part of Claim to Liberty, is morality.

You play the part of the fool. Do not presume to lecture the rest of this board on how the government is infringing upon the rights of the individual when you are going to turn around and spout idiocy like this.

Your position is that liberty means that the government can enforce its version of morality on the citizens of the nation.

Ok, so hypothetical situation, 100 years from now muslims are the majority of the citizenry of the United States. According to your philosphy, since muslims make up the majority, their version of morality is "moral" and the government has the right to force its citizens into being "moral people" (aka eating no pork, drinking no alchohol, women must wear burka etc.)

Now you are going to procede to tell the rest of the board how your version of morality is better then anyone elses and how you have the divine inspiration to know how people should act to be "good people"

Do not act like you espouse libertarian values because when you do you make real libertarians like myself look bad. A basic understanding of political ideology would do you some good.
 

Conflict

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Gaivs Ivlivs said:
You play the part of the fool. Do not presume to lecture the rest of this board on how the government is infringing upon the rights of the individual when you are going to turn around and spout idiocy like this.

Your position is that liberty means that the government can enforce its version of morality on the citizens of the nation.

Ok, so hypothetical situation, 100 years from now muslims are the majority of the citizenry of the United States. According to your philosphy, since muslims make up the majority, their version of morality is "moral" and the government has the right to force its citizens into being "moral people" (aka eating no pork, drinking no alchohol, women must wear burka etc.)

Now you are going to procede to tell the rest of the board how your version of morality is better then anyone elses and how you have the divine inspiration to know how people should act to be "good people"

Do not act like you espouse libertarian values because when you do you make real libertarians like myself look bad. A basic understanding of political ideology would do you some good.
LOL. Well said. I agree.
 

Robodoon

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Calm2Chaos said:
Who's morality? Your morality? Do I have t live freely under YOUR moral guidlelines. Who's morality is it that we are supposed to follow?


Thomas Jefferson
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Dr. Jedidah Morse
"To the kindly influence of Christianity, we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoy. In proportion, as the genuine effects of Christianity are diminished in any nation, either through unbelief, or the corruption of its doctrines, or the neglect of its institutions; in the same proportion will the people of the nation recede from the blessings of genuine freedom and approximate the miseries of complete despotism." (1799)
 

Robodoon

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Korimyr the Rat said:
So, you are conceding that the government has a legitimate role in enforcing moral values amongst the citizenry?
Well in the old days when we had state rights it would have been the states.

Just as We didn't allow witchcraft in the past today its a listed Religion, this is not the ideas our founding fathers were hoping for.


How do you reconcile that with the belief that the public schools attempting to teach proper moral conduct is "Communism"?
today the schools are teaching communism.

The original intent is not seen in schools today.

Noah Webster
(The father of public education in America)

He declared government was responsible to:

"Discipline our youth in early life in sound maxims of moral, political, and religious duties."

"Education is useless without the Bible."

"The Bible was America's basic text book in all fields."

"God's Word, contained in the Bible, has fumished all necessary rules to direct our conduct."

"In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed....No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

In 1832, Noah Webster published his History of the United States, in which he wrote:

"The brief exposition of the constitution of the United States, will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and it is the sincere desire of the writer that our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion.

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all of our civil constitutions and laws....All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.

"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty;

"If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made not for the public good so much as for the selfish or local purposes;

"Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.

"If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws."

"Corruption of morals is rapid enough in any country without a bounty from government. And...the Chief Magistrate of the United States should be the last man to accelerate its progress."
 

Robodoon

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Gaivs Ivlivs said:
You play the part of the fool. Do not presume to lecture the rest of this board on how the government is infringing upon the rights of the individual when you are going to turn around and spout idiocy like this.
John Adams
"The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty."

Your position is that liberty means that the government can enforce its version of morality on the citizens of the nation.
No not "ITS" but the version that gained us the tools for self rule. That is not held in DC today, we lost DC a long time ago.

Ok, so hypothetical situation, 100 years from now muslims are the majority of the citizenry of the United States. According to your philosphy, since muslims make up the majority, their version of morality is "moral" and the government has the right to force its citizens into being "moral people" (aka eating no pork, drinking no alchohol, women must wear burka etc.)
Patrick Henry
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Islam would have never created an America. They aren't about freedom........and all monotheists are on the chopping block today to make way for the Elites new system...by design.

Now you are going to procede to tell the rest of the board how your version of morality is better then anyone elses and how you have the divine inspiration to know how people should act to be "good people"
Our founders did, but then it was common knowledge, today we have to ask if the sky is blue...that speaks very sadly for this lost generation.

Do not act like you espouse libertarian values because when you do you make real libertarians like myself look bad. A basic understanding of political ideology would do you some good.
Well my understanding is that the Libertarians are going along with free trade (is that correct?) if so the Libertarian party has been destroyed just like the Reps and the Dems.

Morality is needed for self rule, there is no way around this, but since you reject it like others, we will lose our Liberty and will be rule by force, that will not even answer your petty concerns, they will just put a boot on your face and say obey...that is the path you are picking.
 

Robodoon

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You guys need to ask yourselves, if your going to deny God, then what rights can be secured for you?
 

DeeJayH

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Robodoon said:
You guys need to ask yourselves, if your going to deny God, then what rights can be secured for you?

__________________
WE ARE BEING DOUBLE TEAMED!
i think you are being double teamed
by dumb and dumber :2rofll:
 
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Korimyr the Rat

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Robodoon said:
Well in the old days when we had state rights it would have been the states.
Don't try to squirm out of it. There's no moral difference between State governments and the Federal government.

Does the government have a legitimate role in instilling moral values?

Robodoon said:
Just as We didn't allow witchcraft in the past today its a listed Religion, this is not the ideas our founding fathers were hoping for.
There were no anti-witchcraft laws in this country after the Revolution.

Robodoon said:
today the schools are teaching communism.
The original intent is not seen in schools today.
Noah Webster said:
"Discipline our youth in early life in sound maxims of moral, political, and religious duties."
And you use a very similar quote from Roger Baldwin to discredit public schooling-- he says that public schooling should teach "character" and you use that as a sign that they are a Communist plot.

Also, considering that the public schools are very cozy with corporate vendors and engage in numerous capitalistic fund-raisers, it's hard to argue that they are Communist in any way, shape, or form.

Wouldn't instructing children in religious principles and leading them in prayers, if performed by government officials-- public school teachers-- violate the First Amendment by establishing a State Religion?

Are you against the Constitution?
 

Robodoon

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Korimyr the Rat said:
Don't try to squirm out of it. There's no moral difference between State governments and the Federal government.
BS, local control, we the people..which is the exact opposite in which we are moving today.


Does the government have a legitimate role in instilling moral values?
Government it self, must be base on moral values.



There were no anti-witchcraft laws in this country after the Revolution.
Witchcraft wasn't considered a Religon, till just a few years ago.
Witchcraft was hidden until just a little while ago

Ben Franklin
"Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel.
and thats from a member of the Hellfire club.




And you use a very similar quote from Roger Baldwin to discredit public schooling-- he says that public schooling should teach "character" and you use that as a sign that they are a Communist plot.
Do you mean shouldn't? Schools are to teach the basics in a moral way.
Look at the words of our Founders.God was not in question, man was, now man is not in question and God is.

Also, considering that the public schools are very cozy with corporate vendors and engage in numerous capitalistic fund-raisers, it's hard to argue that they are Communist in any way, shape, or form.
Fine call it fascist...it ends up being the same thing.

Wouldn't instructing children in religious principles and leading them in prayers, if performed by government officials-- public school teachers-- violate the First Amendment by establishing a State Religion?
Then why are they doing it today?,. the only thing being rejected is Americans foundation for the claim to liberty.


Patrick Henry
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."




Are you against the Constitution?
No I would like it back ;)
 
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Korimyr the Rat

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Robodoon said:
BS, local control, we the people..which is the exact opposite in which we are moving today.
It's not BS. Do you think Americans are less American when they're further away from you? Who's more American, Nevadans or Ohioans?

Your State government isn't any more "of the people, by the people, for the people" than the Federal government.

Robodoon said:
Government it self, must be base on moral values.
Then how do you presume for the government to teach those moral values, if not in the schools?

Robodoon said:
Witchcraft wasn't considered a Religon, till just a few years ago. Witchcraft was hidden until just a little while ago.
It's been around for a bit over a hundred years, and it's been open and mainstream for the last forty.

And we cannot outlaw it for the same reason that we cannot outlaw Christianity; America respects the freedom of religion.

Robodoon said:
No I would like it back ;)
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim that you want the Constitution back while proposing laws that would violate it.
 
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