The sensation of overwhelming sensation.

[sbrettt]

Due to its influence, would you say the mushroom (even as a dead, dried inanimate object) has a spirit/soul?

No. I would say Psilocybin has the ability to unlock parts/functions of the brain that are otherwise inaccessible, but everyone experiences it different. Maybe some people do view it that way.

 

[sangha]

I think there are many different classification groups. The 'depressant, stimulant, euphoric and hallu' classification group is something I heard some time ago.

I don't think there are any "official" lists of classes, but rather a list of categories where any one drug can fall into more than one depending on it's effects

 

[ecofarm]

No. I would say Psilocybin has the ability to unlock parts/functions of the brain that are otherwise inaccessible, but everyone experiences it different. Maybe some people do view it that way.

It has apparently had more influence over you than most people. I define a spirit/soul as influence that remains after the physical manifestation is gone.

 

[sbrettt]

It has apparently had more influence over you than most people. I define a spirit/soul as influence that remains after the physical manifestation is gone.

Unless you're referring to a study, the odds of your observation being an accurate portrait of "most people" who've tried mushrooms are pretty low.

 

[ecofarm]

Unless you're referring to a study, the odds of your observation being an accurate portrait of "most people" who've tried mushrooms are pretty low.

I'm not speaking of other people and their experiences, but yours and how inanimate objects can be as influential as people.

 

[ttwtt78640]

A little over a year ago I tried Psilocybin mushrooms on a couple of occasions. The setting was a June summer night near Tampa Florida. Me and a few friends made "shroomade". What I experienced was a very pronounced sense of marvel at everything around me such as living things and processes I had never considered. An appreciation for ecosystems and life that I had always taken for granted. Basically I saw beauty in everything. These experiences changed my outlook significantly, but the greatest experience I had on shrooms was what I believe is either called an ego death, or depersonalization? I felt no sense of self. I knew who I was, but I felt outside of myself. When I self reflected I found that my views on my actions, outlooks, opinions, anything you think of when you self reflect having little to no personal bias. It was like seeing myself from the point of view of someone other than myself. At least, that's how I think of it. To this day that summer in June is one the most enlightening, meaningful experiences I've had. The point I'm trying to make is I think Psilocybin deserves to be in a different category than say marijuana, heroine, or cocaine.

Recreational drugs, in the U.S., are divided into two basic categories: alcohol and everything else. Alcohol required constitutional action to be federally banned and then reallowed - everything else just magically required federal legislation to be banned. Basically, the conventional (white conservative?) logic was that since we (the civilized, cultured and refined) prefer to drink alcohol that makes it OK but they (mainly minorities like blacks, asians and native americans) like to use "drugs" so that kind of recreational drug must be banned.

 

[sbrettt]

I'm not speaking of other people and their experiences, but yours and how inanimate objects can be as influential as people.

Your words "It has apparently had more influence over you than most people.". The effects of hallucinogens are mostly subjective. Also, can you show me where I equated the influence of Psilocybin to the influence of people? Oh and mushrooms meet the definition of animate. Were you referring to the mushrooms as the inanimate objects?

 

[ecofarm]

Your words "It has apparently had more influence over you than most people.". The effects of hallucinogens are mostly subjective. Also, can you show me where I equated the influence of Psilocybin to the influence of people? Oh and mushrooms meet the definition of animate. Were you referring to the mushrooms as the inanimate objects?

Ok,I guess "most people" was an over statement. Let's say "some people". I am the one equating the influence of the mushroom with the influence of people... that's where I'm trying to lead you. Yes, the mushrooms are an inanimate object with apparently possibly profound influence.

I don't mean to misrepresent your words, merely to add my own and see if you can follow the philosophical ideas therein. For another example, see the "desert experience" (so to speak) talked about in Deep Ecology.

 

[sbrettt]

Ok,I guess "most people" was an over statement. Let's say "some people". I am the one equating the influence of the mushroom with the influence of people... that's where I'm trying to lead you. Yes, the mushrooms are an inanimate object with apparently possibly profound influence.

I don't mean to misrepresent your words, merely to add my own and see if you can follow the philosophical ideas therein. For another example, see the "desert experience" (so to speak) talked about in Deep Ecology.

Psilocybin has influenced my perceptions and general outlook a lot. Not as much as my family and people I'm very close to, but more than some people if that makes sense? Also I don't the mushrooms are doing it by themselves. I look at as they opened my mind to new ideas.

 

[ecofarm]

Psilocybin has influenced my perceptions and general outlook a lot. Not as much as my family and people I'm very close to, but more than some people if that makes sense? Also I don't the mushrooms are doing it by themselves. I look at as they opened my mind to new ideas.

The point I'm aiming at is that inanimate objects, by all meaningful (spiritual) measure, are alive and have souls (influence). Just like a mountain (stone) might, or a lake (water).

 

[sbrettt]

The point I'm aiming at is that inanimate objects, by all meaningful (spiritual) measure, are alive and have souls (influence). Just like a mountain (stone) might, or a lake (water).

I was going to keep arguing that you were wrong about Psilocybin mushrooms being inanimate then I realized Psilocybin itself is inanimate so I was wrong, but you probably already knew that. I like to think there's more to this world than science says there is.

 

[ecofarm]

I was going to keep arguing that you were wrong about Psilocybin mushrooms being inanimate then I realized Psilocybin itself is inanimate so I was wrong, but you probably already knew that. I like to think there's more to this world than science says there is.

I presume the mushroom (also?) works when dead and dried (certainly inanimate at that point).

 

[sbrettt]

I presume the mushroom (also?) works when dead and dried (certainly inanimate at that point).

The way I'm looking at it is the psilocybin itself is just a chemical so it doesn't matter if the mushrooms are or aren't animate.

 

[ecofarm]

The way I'm looking at it is the psilocybin itself is just a chemical so it doesn't matter if the mushrooms are or aren't animate.

I get the feeling we've had this conversation before.

 

[sangha]

The point I'm aiming at is that inanimate objects, by all meaningful (spiritual) measure, are alive and have souls (influence). Just like a mountain (stone) might, or a lake (water).

Mind if I take a guess?

By ingesting them, they become a part of your body and their energy/soul/whatever has an effect on you.

Amirite?

 

[ecofarm]

Mind if I take a guess?

By ingesting them, they become a part of your body and their energy/soul/whatever has an effect on you.

Amirite?

In this way, the dead molecules of the mushroom (presuming dried) return to life. We're being overly physical in this aspect, and I believe the spirit or mental influence is the essence of eternal life, yet such is the reason I wish to be cremated and spread upon the organic farms of my friends (so as to return to physical life asap and healthy).

 

[sangha]

In this way, the dead molecules of the mushroom (presuming dried) return to life. We're being overly physical in this aspect, and I believe the spirit or mental influence is the essence of eternal life, yet such is the reason I wish to be cremated and spread upon the organic farms of my friends (so as to return to physical life asap and healthy).

And I assume this means that what is ingested need not have ever been alive. A rock can be as influential as something that lived.

Sort of gaieia-ish type of thing?

 

[ecofarm]

And I assume this means that what is ingested need not have ever been alive. A rock can be as influential as something that lived.

Sort of gaieia-ish type of thing?

Animatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe in anything supernatural, but this understanding of a 'spirit' or 'soul' that lives after physical death seems scientifically reasonable to me. The Deep Ecologists did a nice job of explaining this influence in their expectation of a quasi-epiphany induced by natural experience including the inanimate (perhaps being moved by the beauty of a desert, as is the classic example) as a prerequisite to moving from anthropocentric to ecocentric. Basically, they were saying that one must be, to some extent, an animatist in order to evolve ecologically. Unfortunately, they're rather sexist and they believe in the supernatural.

 

[sangha]

Animatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe in anything supernatural, but this understanding of a 'spirit' or 'soul' that lives after physical death seems scientifically reasonable to me. The Deep Ecologists did a nice job of explaining this influence in their expectation of a quasi-epiphany induced by natural experience including the inanimate (perhaps being moved by the beauty of a desert, as is the classic example) as a prerequisite to moving from anthropocentric to ecocentric. Basically, they were saying that one must be, to some extent, an animatist in order to evolve ecologically. Unfortunately, they're rather sexist and they believe in the supernatural.

So you don't think there's anything supernatural or mystical about it? Instead, you just see it as part of the natural (as opposed to supernatural) order of things. More physical, albeit intangible (or at least difficult to detect or measure)

 

[ecofarm]

So you don't think there's anything supernatural or mystical about it? Instead, you just see it as part of the natural (as opposed to supernatural) order of things. More physical, albeit intangible (or at least difficult to detect or measure)

Influence, through thoughts but not necessarily originating in thought (the influence of the inanimate), is hardly measurable but certainly exists in reality. There's nothing supernatural or mystical in my belief regarding eternal life. An influence is multiplied innumerably through interaction, perpetuating influence however indiscernible.

 

[sangha]

Influence, through thoughts but not necessarily originating in thought (the influence of the inanimate), is hardly measurable but certainly exists in reality.

interesting ideas. I can't say that I believe in it, but the buddhist in me is very sympathetic to that line of thinking

 

[ecofarm]

interesting ideas. I can't say that I believe in it, but the buddhist in me is very sympathetic to that line of thinking

Zen Buddhists are animatist, right? Thanks, see edit (addition) above.

 

[sbrettt]

Influence, through thoughts but not necessarily originating in thought (the influence of the inanimate), is hardly measurable but certainly exists in reality. There's nothing supernatural or mystical in my belief regarding eternal life. An influence is multiplied innumerably through interaction, perpetuating influence however indiscernible.

I think get it now. The angel you went at it from went right over my head.

 

[sangha]

Zen Buddhists are animatist, right? Thanks, see edit (addition) above.

I don't know that buddhists would describe themselves as such, but it seems that way to me. I'm not a buddhist but I do like a lot of their philosophy, at least as I understand it. I think there's more to life than just atoms exerting their force (the forces our physics have identified) on each other so I reject materialism, but I'm not sold on the existence of the supernatural either which I guess places me is a similar position to yours, though you seem to be more confident in those sort of beliefs.

 

[sangha]

I think get it now. The angel you went at it from went right over my head.

Angels have a habit of doing that

I think it's the wings :shrug: