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The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest

Wehrwolfen

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By Tom Quiggin
9-9-13


Being a saver will be punished by the takers.

The Savers: Those with a savings account, a personal retirement fund, a pension fund, equity in their homes or other cash assets.

The Takers: Governments with unreasonably high debt levels, supra-international institutions such as the EU, Central Banks, and financial institutions.

Reduced to its most basic, the financial crisis that started in 2008 and what we now see in 2013 has occurred because of unsustainable debt. Governments at all levels have been on a spending spree since the mid-1980s and they have outspent their ability to raise revenue. They have run out of tax money and have used up most of accounting tricks which allow them to kick the debt can down the road. At the same time, the large commercial banks have allowed themselves to become “over-leveraged.” This is a polite way of saying they took a series of incredibly high risks with saver’s money and now those risks are at a substantial risk of blowing up. They also have huge exposure or potential loses through derivatives as well. Derivatives are seen as weapons of mass destruction in the financial community.

Stripped of all the economic, financial and governmental jargon, here is the issue and why you should be afraid if you are a saver.

1. Governments are holding massive debts and unfunded liabilities and they need more money.

2. Banks are over leveraged and they need/want more money to prop up their risks.

3. Savers have cash and other assets.

4. Governments and banks will change the rules so they can take this cash and other assets.

5. Savers will lose their money and debtors will gain from this.

How are they taking your money? Sometimes it is quite clear and other times it is difficult to appreciate what they are doing to you. However, here are the main ways it is happening:

[Excerpt]

Read more:
The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest | Broken Mirrors

Looks like the retied people of Poland will soon lose their retirement savings. How long before Obama makes the same proclamation.
 

Wehrwolfen

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UPDATE 2-Poland reduces public debt through pension funds overhaul

Sep 4, 2013

* Reform moves bond assets from private to state fund

* Some equity assets to gradually move to state as well

* Changes seen reducing Polish public debt by 8 pct of GDP

* Funds say moves could be unconstitutional

* Warnings that private pension funds could be wiped out

By Dagmara Leszkowicz and Chris Borowski

WARSAW, Sept 4 (Reuters) - Poland said on Wednesday it will transfer to the state many of the assets held by private pension funds, slashing public debt but putting in doubt the future of the multi-billion-euro funds, many of them foreign-owned.

The changes went deeper than many in the market expected and could fuel investor concerns that the government is ditching some business-friendly policies to try to improve its flagging popularity with voters.

The Polish pension funds' organisation said the changes may be unconstitutional because the government is taking private assets away from them without offering any compensation.

Announcing the long-awaited overhaul of state-guaranteed pensions, Prime Minister Donald Tusk said private funds within the state-guaranteed system would have their bond holdings transferred to a state pension vehicle, but keep their equity holdings.

He said that what remained in citizens' pension pots in the private funds will be gradually transferred into the state vehicle over the last 10 years before savers hit retirement age.

The reform is "a decimation of the ...(private pension fund) system to open up fiscal space for an easier life now for the government," said Peter Attard Montalto of Nomura. "The government has an odd definition of private property given it claims this is not nationalisation."

Tusk said people joining the pension system in the future would not be obliged to pay into the private part of the system. Depending on the finer points, this could mean still fewer assets in the private funds.

"The (current) system has turned out to be built in part on rising public debt and turned out to be a very costly system," Tusk told a news conference.

"We believe that, apart from the positive consequence of this decision for public debt, pensions will also be safer."


MARKET FEARS

By shifting some assets from the private funds into ZUS, the government can book those assets on the state balance sheet to offset public debt, giving it more scope to borrow and spend.


[Excerpt]

Read more:
UPDATE 2-Poland reduces public debt through pension funds overhaul | Reuters

Seeking the truth is considered by the Progressive Left as being their enemy.
 

Moot

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....At the same time, the large commercial banks have allowed themselves to become “over-leveraged.” This is a polite way of saying they took a series of incredibly high risks with saver’s money and now those risks are at a substantial risk of blowing up. They also have huge exposure or potential loses through derivatives as well. Derivatives are seen as weapons of mass destruction in the financial community.....

Read more:
The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest | Broken Mirrors
The OP appears to be arguing for bank regulations. Are you for regulating banks, Wehrwolfen?


The OP article was written by a Canadian, eh. The Canadian banking system hasn't had a crash in over 150 years, eh. How horrible for the Canadians, eh....




Looks like the retied people of Poland will soon lose their retirement savings. How long before Obama makes the same proclamation.
Probably never.
 

Wehrwolfen

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The OP appears to be arguing for bank regulations. Are you for regulating banks, Wehrwolfen?


The OP article was written by a Canadian, eh. The Canadian banking system hasn't had a crash in over 150 years, eh. How horrible for the Canadians, eh....







Probably never.
Nice try at twisting things. Are you prepared to have the government confiscate 50% or your total savings including your 401(k) or variation thereof? I'm not. I've saved most of my life to enjoy my retirement comfortably. I don't need some Yahoo in D.C. stealing my hard earned savings to redistribute it to some Welfare queen.
 

Moot

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Nice try at twisting things. Are you prepared to have the government confiscate 50% or your total savings including your 401(k) or variation thereof? I'm not. I've saved most of my life to enjoy my retirement comfortably. I don't need some Yahoo in D.C. stealing my hard earned savings to redistribute it to some Welfare queen.
My savings is kept at an FDIC insured bank, so I'm really not too worried....

FDIC: Deposit Insurance Summary


Isn't it kind of odd that a few conservative Canadian bloggers are railing against the banking system when Canadian banks are the most stable banks in the world?
 
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Wiseone

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I've proudly cost the tax payers more money than I will ever contribute myself even if I live to be 100, I am a taker.
 

douglas

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My savings is kept at an FDIC insured bank, so I'm really not too worried....

FDIC: Deposit Insurance Summary


Isn't it kind of odd that a few conservative Canadian bloggers are railing against the banking system when Canadian banks are the most stable banks in the world?
Pretty much what Moot said. We're not Canada or Poland or the EU, we're the USA. Our laws are different, on banking, retirement savings, and overall tax rates. The OP is a complete Apples to Oranges comparison to the USA. The govt. can't bust down your doors and steal your wallet, they can't bleed any of your bank accounts (by law and private insurance), and they can't touch your retirement accounts (by law and due to the fact that it's based on private businesses). As a libertarian, I have plenty of bones to pick with the govt. stealing our money and over-regulating our businesses, but this is simply not a justified fear. Our govt. steals via unfulfilled duties and inflating our economy, not by bankrobbing.
 

Wehrwolfen

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My savings is kept at an FDIC insured bank, so I'm really not too worried....

FDIC: Deposit Insurance Summary


Isn't it kind of odd that a few conservative Canadian bloggers are railing against the banking system when Canadian banks are the most stable banks in the world?
The FDIC only covers up to $250,000 only if those funds are in a bank. Then there's the IRA, 401(k), 403(b) and annuity accounts not covered by the FDIC that Democrats are casting eyes at the well of wealth saved by Americans for the retirement. Poland just confiscated 50% of the total amounts in all retirement accounts. Do you really think Democrats won't do the same here? They are already discussing the ways and means to confiscate these funds.
See:
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/fslifetimeincomeoptions.html
Funny no updates published since 2010, now why is that?
 

calamity

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Nice try at twisting things. Are you prepared to have the government confiscate 50% or your total savings including your 401(k) or variation thereof? I'm not. I've saved most of my life to enjoy my retirement comfortably. I don't need some Yahoo in D.C. stealing my hard earned savings to redistribute it to some Welfare queen.
Welfare queen...

Dog Whistle much?
 

TacticalEvilDan

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How long before Obama makes the same proclamation.
The only savings and retirement monies that the Federal government would be able to confiscate through excessive taxation would be untaxed monies orinally invested in deferred-taxation accounts like 401(k)s -- in other words, the principal, not the gain. The gain, since it is property and not money, would not be subject to taxation until it is sold.

In a similar vein, taxed monies sitting in savings accounts or Roth IRAs and other depositories of after-tax money or property bought with after-tax money could not be confiscated via taxation.

That which can't be confiscated via taxation can only be taken through due process with just compensation under the Fifth Amendment. There is no court in the land who would accept less than $1 compensation for $1 cash taken by such a method.

Furthermore, the President is powerless to confiscate any law abiding citizen's after-tax finances even with just compensation. He would need the cooperation of Congress.
 

Wehrwolfen

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Welfare queen...

Dog Whistle much?
Wiseone thinks it's great to be a burden on the taxpayers of America. Queen or King does it make a difference?
 

Wehrwolfen

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The only savings and retirement monies that the Federal government would be able to confiscate through excessive taxation would be untaxed monies orinally invested in deferred-taxation accounts like 401(k)s -- in other words, the principal, not the gain. The gain, since it is property and not money, would not be subject to taxation until it is sold.

In a similar vein, taxed monies sitting in savings accounts or Roth IRAs and other depositories of after-tax money or property bought with after-tax money could not be confiscated via taxation.

That which can't be confiscated via taxation can only be taken through due process with just compensation under the Fifth Amendment. There is no court in the land who would accept less than $1 compensation for $1 cash taken by such a method.

Furthermore, the President is powerless to confiscate any law abiding citizen's after-tax finances even with just compensation. He would need the cooperation of Congress.
From your computer keys to Gods E-mail. May you be correct in your assumptions.
 

calamity

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Wiseone thinks it's great to be a burden on the taxpayers of America. Queen or King does it make a difference?
Not counting social security and medicare, the overwhelmingly vast majority of your money goes to Military and Defense spending. I take it you're calling our soldiers and defense contractors "Welfare Queens" now?
 

Wehrwolfen

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Not counting social security and medicare, the overwhelmingly vast majority of your money goes to Military and Defense spending. I take it you're calling our soldiers and defense contractors "Welfare Queens" now?
The Trillion-Dollar Cost of Welfare | Fox Business
www.foxbusiness.com/.../trillion-dollar-cost-welfare
The Trillion-Dollar Cost of Welfare. By Elizabeth MacDonald. Emac's Bottom Line. ... Take food stamps. This program has quadrupled in the last decade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welfare Fraud Costing Taxpayers Half a Trillion Dollars Per Year ...
www.greenvilledragnet.com/welfare-fraud-cos
Welfare Fraud Costing Taxpayers Half a Trillion Dollars Per Year. Illegal immigrants are using American welfare programs at higher rates than Americans and it’s ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No I am referring to the above that I just cited.
 

calamity

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The Trillion-Dollar Cost of Welfare | Fox Business
www.foxbusiness.com/.../trillion-dollar-cost-welfare
The Trillion-Dollar Cost of Welfare. By Elizabeth MacDonald. Emac's Bottom Line. ... Take food stamps. This program has quadrupled in the last decade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welfare Fraud Costing Taxpayers Half a Trillion Dollars Per Year ...
www.greenvilledragnet.com/welfare-fraud-cos
Welfare Fraud Costing Taxpayers Half a Trillion Dollars Per Year. Illegal immigrants are using American welfare programs at higher rates than Americans and it’s ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No I am referring to the above that I just cited.
Sources not credible.
 

TurtleDude

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By Tom Quiggin
9-9-13


Being a saver will be punished by the takers.

The Savers: Those with a savings account, a personal retirement fund, a pension fund, equity in their homes or other cash assets.

The Takers: Governments with unreasonably high debt levels, supra-international institutions such as the EU, Central Banks, and financial institutions.

Reduced to its most basic, the financial crisis that started in 2008 and what we now see in 2013 has occurred because of unsustainable debt. Governments at all levels have been on a spending spree since the mid-1980s and they have outspent their ability to raise revenue. They have run out of tax money and have used up most of accounting tricks which allow them to kick the debt can down the road. At the same time, the large commercial banks have allowed themselves to become “over-leveraged.” This is a polite way of saying they took a series of incredibly high risks with saver’s money and now those risks are at a substantial risk of blowing up. They also have huge exposure or potential loses through derivatives as well. Derivatives are seen as weapons of mass destruction in the financial community.

Stripped of all the economic, financial and governmental jargon, here is the issue and why you should be afraid if you are a saver.

1. Governments are holding massive debts and unfunded liabilities and they need more money.

2. Banks are over leveraged and they need/want more money to prop up their risks.

3. Savers have cash and other assets.

4. Governments and banks will change the rules so they can take this cash and other assets.

5. Savers will lose their money and debtors will gain from this.

How are they taking your money? Sometimes it is quite clear and other times it is difficult to appreciate what they are doing to you. However, here are the main ways it is happening:

[Excerpt]

Read more:
The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest | Broken Mirrors

Looks like the retied people of Poland will soon lose their retirement savings. How long before Obama makes the same proclamation.

sounds like the parable of the ant and the grasshopper
 

calamity

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that is a most interesting white flag of surrender
The entire "welfare" bill isn't even 1/2 trillion dollars a year. It's $422B and some change.
US Welfare Spending for 2013 - Charts

So the Greenville article saying $500 Billion dollars of welfare money is being wasted on illegal immigrants is completely made up nonsense. Source not credible.
 

WCH

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Lest we forget how the 401s were ravaged in 2008.

It's how those 401s are invested that count.
 
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