The Saddam Trial

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

This is the first prosecuted charge in a rather large indictment portfolio. Dujail was perhaps the first public example of Saddam's 'style of governance' after he formally assumed the Iraq presidency in 1979.

Saddam visited Dujail and as he was about to depart, an unsuccessful assassination attempt was lanched. After Dujail was secured by Iraqi forces, Saddam returned and personally questioned the town residents. This questioning by Saddam was filmed and captured on videotape. This visual evidence thus places Saddam at the very scene of the massacre.

You forgot to mention that this is when he decided it would be a good idea to start hanging jews (only on account of their religion) and to kill all opponents within the Iraqi parliament. This ****er needs to die, but it is the Iraqi people who have the most reason to kill him.

Nex ut Tyrannus = Death to Tyrants

 

[TimmyBoy]

I think that by any legal standard, those nations that supported Saddam are party to the crimes he committed. We can have victor's justice or we can have REAL justice. It would seem that the reason Saddam is on trial because the stronger nation decided they simply didn't like him anymore after granting him support during his reign of terror. And, unfortunately, it seems that the way things operate in the real world is might makes right rather than honest, true justice making right. Saddam outlived his usefulness so he was replaced and put on trial in a show of victor's justice. Saddam deserves to be on trial, it's just that the trial is missing a few more defendents who are not Iraqi.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

This is the first prosecuted charge in a rather large indictment portfolio. Dujail was perhaps the first public example of Saddam's 'style of governance' after he formally assumed the Iraq presidency in 1979.

Saddam visited Dujail and as he was about to depart, an unsuccessful assassination attempt was lanched. After Dujail was secured by Iraqi forces, Saddam returned and personally questioned the town residents. This questioning by Saddam was filmed and captured on videotape. This visual evidence thus places Saddam at the very scene of the massacre.

Not only that but this is the first charge brought against any tyrant of the middle east . . . ever!

 

[Aryan Imperium]

Saddam will get a fair trial, but will also get a fair hanging, and the people of Iraq should be the ones to string him up!

So what you are proposing then is victor`s vengeance, not justice?
Another Nuernberg show trial where the verdict is known in advance?

 

[Aryan Imperium]

Not only that but this is the first charge brought against any tyrant of the middle east . . . ever!

"Tyrant" by your standards, not by the standards of everyone.
How convenient that it is only the Islamic states of the Middle East that Rabbi Bush and his pet poodle St Blair are threatening, not the rogue terrorist state of israel.

 

[Aryan Imperium]

I think that by any legal standard, those nations that supported Saddam are party to the crimes he committed. We can have victor's justice or we can have REAL justice. It would seem that the reason Saddam is on trial because the stronger nation decided they simply didn't like him anymore after granting him support during his reign of terror. And, unfortunately, it seems that the way things operate in the real world is might makes right rather than honest, true justice making right. Saddam outlived his usefulness so he was replaced and put on trial in a show of victor's justice. Saddam deserves to be on trial, it's just that the trial is missing a few more defendents who are not Iraqi.

Let`s not kid ourselves, this show trial has nothing to do with "justice" but vengeance, victor`s vengeance, of the kind that was displayed at the show trials of Nuernberg.
It is against any concept of natural justice for a defendant to be charged with something that is only a crime retrospectively.The farce of Nuernberg set an unhealthy and unjust precedent in that German nationals were tried by an alien power and charged with "crimes" that were not crimes during the jurisdiction of the Third Reich.
What they are doing to the legitimate president of Iraq is no different.

 

[Navy Pride]

I think if anyone is to "try" Hussein on charges of mass murder (based upon an authoritarian principle) and proliferating a dictatorship; Well then perhaps our president should also be "tried" on the same supposition.

Bush is sending our troops to be mass murdered because of his industrial amibition, his fathers unfinished business, and his resound lies.

Bush also is trying to force democracy upon a country which is not democratic. Hitler attempted to force fascism on countries that were not fascist. The political implications are complex but a dictator is a dictator is a dictator.

We never went to Iraq to liberate it... at least that wasn't the claim then. Case in point. Flip Floppin'. Pants Droppin'.

Oh and for the extreme right wing conservatives whiners; I am not liberal so spare me your partisan redundancy.

You may not be a liberal but you are a typical Bush hater and a Saddam apologist......sad.......

 

[robin]

Let`s not kid ourselves, this show trial has nothing to do with "justice" but vengeance, victor`s vengeance, of the kind that was displayed at the show trials of Nuernberg.
It is against any concept of natural justice for a defendant to be charged with something that is only a crime retrospectively.The farce of Nuernberg set an unhealthy and unjust precedent in that German nationals were tried by an alien power and charged with "crimes" that were not crimes during the jurisdiction of the Third Reich.
What they are doing to the legitimate president of Iraq is no different.

The top Nazis & Japanese managed to start a war in which 55 million people died. Their crimes were absolute. In return they received either long prison sentences or death sentences. Seems fair to me.
What do you think we should have given them instead Aryan ?
Bunches of roses perhaps ? :lol:

As regards Saddam trial.. It's costing millions, although it's obvious he's guilty of mass murder etc.
Millions on feeding UN beaurocrats & highly payed legal people & judges.
Those millions if spent on tents & food etc instead could save the lives of hundreds of earthquake victims by stopping them dying of exposure or malnutrition.
Is Saddam worth all those millions ?
What about all his henchmen ?
Will they be tried ?
Paul Bremner the chief administrator for the whole country, decided it wasn't even necessary to disarm them !
Once the trial is complete... I wonder, should they appoint an executioner, or give Saddam to the families of his victims ?
They deserve a chance to vent their anguish... tearing him apart.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

"Tyrant" by your standards, not by the standards of everyone.
How convenient that it is only the Islamic states of the Middle East that Rabbi Bush and his pet poodle St Blair are threatening, not the rogue terrorist state of israel.

Your definition of a tyrant is laughable, you consider Hitler to be a hero and you dare to lecture my countries leaders and those of the Nation of Israel who have been attacked by the minions of Arafat a pupil and direct descendent of the Muslim nazi SS organizer Al-Husseinni? You're a joke.

 

[Navy Pride]

The top Nazis & Japanese managed to start a war in which 55 million people died. Their crimes were absolute. In return they received either long prison sentences or death sentences. Seems fair to me.
What do you think we should have given them instead Aryan ?
Bunches of roses perhaps ? :lol:

As regards Saddam trial.. It's costing millions, although it's obvious he's guilty of mass murder etc.
Millions on feeding UN beaurocrats & highly payed legal people & judges.
Those millions if spent on tents & food etc instead could save the lives of hundreds of earthquake victims by stopping them dying of exposure or malnutrition.
Is Saddam worth all those millions ?
What about all his henchmen ?
Will they be tried ?
Paul Bremner the chief administrator for the whole country, decided it wasn't even necessary to disarm them !
Once the trial is complete... I wonder, should they appoint an executioner, or give Saddam to the families of his victims ?
They deserve a chance to vent their anguish... tearing him apart.

I have as much and hate for Sadam as anyone but in a civilized society ever person charged deserve a fair trial....

 

[TurtleDude]

Let`s not kid ourselves, this show trial has nothing to do with "justice" but vengeance, victor`s vengeance, of the kind that was displayed at the show trials of Nuernberg.
It is against any concept of natural justice for a defendant to be charged with something that is only a crime retrospectively.The farce of Nuernberg set an unhealthy and unjust precedent in that German nationals were tried by an alien power and charged with "crimes" that were not crimes during the jurisdiction of the Third Reich.
What they are doing to the legitimate president of Iraq is no different.

TOJO's minions executed American prisoners merely for the crime of being POW. Turnaround was fair play. Whining about what JODL and the rest of those nazi scumbags got is pathetic. THey should have executed far more of them

 

[TimmyBoy]

TOJO's minions executed American prisoners merely for the crime of being POW. Turnaround was fair play. Whining about what JODL and the rest of those nazi scumbags got is pathetic. THey should have executed far more of them

They should have executed Stalin and his minions while they were at, but it's much more difficult to bring to trial a man who has a multi million Red Army at his disposal. He was far worse than Hitler or the Imperial Japanese military leadership. The Soviet Union was present at the trial, yet their leader was not on trial. Stalin killed more of his own people before the German invasion than Hitler did to the Jews. So, in some small sense their was victor's justice. Not to mention we bombed targets like Dresden which had no military or economical value to Germany's war efforts against us.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Stalin was a bigger national socialist than Adolf Hitler ever was. He committed far more crimes on much larger scale.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Nobody in this world is innocent. Not Germany, not Japan, not the Soviet Union and not for that matter the US or UK. Justice is just a word in this world.

 

[jamesrage]

Originally Posted by Aryan Imperium
Let`s not kid ourselves, this show trial has nothing to do with "justice" but vengeance, victor`s vengeance, of the kind that was displayed at the show trials of Nuernberg.
It is against any concept of natural justice for a defendant to be charged with something that is only a crime retrospectively.The farce of Nuernberg set an unhealthy and unjust precedent in that German nationals were tried by an alien power and charged with "crimes" that were not crimes during the jurisdiction of the Third Reich.
What they are doing to the legitimate president of Iraq is no different.

The cockroache degenerate scum known as Nazis were guilty of their crimes,the whole world knew they were guilty.
At least your a honest Nazi who does not disguise his anti-semitism as anti-zionism.
BUt by your logic the new Iraqi government can toture Saddam all day,cut his balls off and shove them in his mouth, dump bacon grease on him and light him on fire ojn national tv with out a trial ,since what ever the new Iraqi governement wanted to do to him would be under their rule.

 

[TimmyBoy]

The cockroache degenerate scum known as Nazis were guilty of their crimes,the whole world knew they were guilty.
At least your a honest Nazi who does not disguise his anti-semitism as anti-zionism.
BUt by your logic the new Iraqi government can toture Saddam all day,cut his balls off and shove them in his mouth, dump bacon grease on him and light him on fire ojn national tv with out a trial ,since what ever the new Iraqi governement wanted to do to him would be under their rule.

THROW SADDAM TO THE MOB. FEED THE WOLVES! APPEASE THE MOB! HA HA HA HA!

 

[jamesrage]

Orignally posted by TimmyBoy
THROW SADDAM TO THE MOB. FEED THE WOLVES! APPEASE THE MOB! HA HA HA HA!

Now thats what I am talking about.
What, you were being sarcastic?For a second there I thought you had seen the light.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Now thats what I am talking about.
What, you were being sarcastic?For a second there I thought you had seen the light.

Heh heh heh, nothing like the good ole mob mentality. I remember watching the movie "Andersonville" about the Confederate POW camp for union soldiers and how the mob didn't want a trial, they simply wanted to hang the gang that was robbing everybody "The Raiders." It was interesting to observe the behavior of the mob in the movie.

 

[robin]

I have as much and hate for Sadam as anyone but in a civilized society ever person charged deserve a fair trial....

Where did I say he shouldn't get a fair trial ?
I may have said was he shouldn't get a fair execution though :2razz:

 

[kal-el]

THROW SADDAM TO THE MOB. FEED THE WOLVES! APPEASE THE MOB! HA HA HA HA!

I'm guessing your being sarcastic? Fortunately now, people don't run to the streets, stones in hand, to lynch someone who has a different ideology.Too bad I can't say the same for certain Islamic countries where they still allow women to be stoned to death for committing adultery, or from having children from rape. It's good today, people have the necessary means to inform themselves, so it's easy to check out what is true and what is false.

Originally posted by Robin
Where did I say he shouldn't get a fair trial ?
I may have said was he shouldn't get a fair execution though

He might indeed walk, if his attorneys can prove that he is insane. I know we can't kill a legally insane person. For god sakes, he still thinks he's Iraqi President!:smile:

 

[TimmyBoy]

I'm guessing your being sarcastic? Fortunately now, people don't run to the streets, stones in hand, to lynch someone who has a different ideology.Too bad I can't say the same for certain Islamic countries where they still allow women to be stoned to death for committing adultery, or from having children from rape. It's good today, people have the necessary means to inform themselves, so it's easy to check out what is true and what is false.



He might indeed walk, if his attorneys can prove that he is insane. I know we can't kill a legally insane person. For god sakes, he still thinks he's Iraqi President!:smile:

Islamic civilization is not as bad as you think it is. Based on what I have studied on Islam, and I am no expert, it's actually a good religion, one of the fastest growing religions in the world and the largest religion in the world, for good reason. I took a summer semester class on Middle East politics where we had to study a little bit about Islam. My professor spent many years living in the Middle East and studying Islam, she is a Christian and some of the Islamic scholars were ready to accept her into some sort of Islamic society which she turned down. She stated that the best way to learn more about her religion was to study Islam. Islamic civilization gave more rights to women many years before Western civilization. She stated that the lack of rights for women in some Islamic societies isn't so much due to Islam as it is to popular culture and we talked of Islamic societies where women are treated quite well in comparison to other Islamic societies. Islamic civilization is also the basis for Western Civilization.

 

[kal-el]

Islamic civilization is not as bad as you think it is. Based on what I have studied on Islam, and I am no expert, it's actually a good religion, one of the fastest growing religions in the world and the largest religion in the world, for good reason. I took a summer semester class on Middle East politics where we had to study a little bit about Islam. My professor spent many years living in the Middle East and studying Islam, she is a Christian and some of the Islamic scholars were ready to accept her into some sort of Islamic society which she turned down. She stated that the best way to learn more about her religion was to study Islam. Islamic civilization gave more rights to women many years before Western civilization. She stated that the lack of rights for women in some Islamic societies isn't so much due to Islam as it is to popular culture and we talked of Islamic societies where women are treated quite well in comparison to other Islamic societies. Islamic civilization is also the basis for Western Civilization.

I think the Middle-Easterners that treat fellow Arab Women like that intend to stay stuck in the Middle-Ages, where they apparently belong. How come Arabs are allowed to bulid their Mosques in free countries, while at the same time, construction of churches is basically forbidden in Arab countries? IMO, if Arabs want to integrate into the international community and acess the world economy, and new technologies, then they should be forced to respect the rules of the Democratic countries, and leave this double standard behind. But a select few have chosen to remain barbaric and live primitive. O well, that's their choice. We have to balance our world somehow. There must be a price the free world must pay to remain free and for violence and terrorism to be eradicated once and for all.

 

[gwynn]

How come Arabs are allowed to bulid their Mosques in free countries, while at the same time, construction of churches is basically forbidden in Arab countries?

By this logic men should not be allowed to run for public office in free countries because women aren't in a number of male dominated societies.

 

[jamesrage]

I'm guessing your being sarcastic? Fortunately now, people don't run to the streets, stones in hand, to lynch someone who has a different ideology.

Different ideology?Please tell that is not why you think they are giving Saddam a trial.

 

[Conflict]

You may not be a liberal but you are a typical Bush hater and a Saddam apologist......sad.......

And you are a typical Saddam Hater and Bush apologist. THe difference is that the foundation of our country, of our constituiton, backs my perception. Not yours.