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The rights of man and the duty of citizens

so I seems you are one of those whom believes the only rights that exist are those granted by government... is this true?

All rights are conceived by man.

Rights are not granted in the US, they are agreed up (recognized) then codified and protected and adjudicated.

Feel free to prove they are 'inherent' in anyway. It'll be in science texts if it is...shall I wait?
 
that's very true.... though those conceptions aren't based on thin air .. they are based in the human condition, as studied and researched for thousands of years.
Of course they are, they arent random. They were developed...by people/tribes... so that individual humans could live together in tribes and then societies and maximize their survival and reproduction.
 
I didn't say it was provable ( not in the way some folks believe provable means, anyways)

Well then it's exactly as I wrote...rights are a man-made concept
 
That does not refute what I wrote at all. The things I also listed are common with all other animals too.

Rights are not granted in the US, they are agreed up (recognized) then codified and protected and adjudicated.

rights are not codified.

rights are unwritten law.
 
All rights are conceived by man.
true...

Rights are not granted in the US, they are agreed up (recognized) then codified and protected and adjudicated.
interesting...I wonder where folks get the idea that something is a right and should be protected?

Feel free to prove they are 'inherent' in anyway. It'll be in science texts if it is...shall I wait?
you won't find "rights" in science texts anymore than you'll find " love"....maybe we should look in philosophy texts?... or are those meaningless?
 
UNWRITTEN LAW

Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

Most laws in America are written. The u.s. code, the code of federal regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.

Much of international law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the rules of war governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the united nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.

In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In constitutional law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In commercial law the uniform commercial code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of common law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.


John Adams - You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe.
 
aye... though a few rights are enumerated.

rights are only recognized by the constitution, the Bill of Rights do not grant any rights, but are restrictions only on federal power.

The U.S. Bill of Rights

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [federal] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
 
rights are only recognized by the constitution, the Bill of Rights do not grant any rights, but are restrictions only on federal power.

The U.S. Bill of Rights

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [federal] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

umm ok?... not sure why you're arguing the point with me.
 
and this means what?.. they aren't real?.. they aren't valid?.. what?



unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

translation:

rights are unwritten law which consists of ones abilities which are natural to them, which the government recognizes and secures those very rights by law.
 
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Of course they are, they arent random. They were developed...by people/tribes... so that individual humans could live together in tribes and then societies and maximize their survival and reproduction.

well, I think it's much more than simply to maximize survival and reproduction, but you're on the right track...at least you don't believe they are arbitrary concoctions of a central authority, you've got that going for you.
 
umm ok?... not sure why you're arguing the point with me.

not arguing with you my friend;), but dont believe people when they say man creates rights and puts them into law.

if man created rights, he would surely create rights which violate the rights of other men, as we see with privileges the government creates when they have violated natural rights.

even the Romans recognized natural rights of man
 
Rights are not granted in the US, they are agreed up (recognized) then codified and protected and adjudicated.

No. You may believe that if you wish.

I decide to obey the laws of society right up until I decide not to.

Example? I currently own no firearms. In fact no weapons other than those which can be found in a dining room drawer.

However, if it ever seems likely that this society will decide that firearms are no longer a protected individual right to keep and bear? I will begin to arm up, clandestinely, and fight any and all comers who attempt to enforce any other infringements of my other "natural" rights.

I may not live; but I will die certain in my knowledge that I have exercised my NATURAL right to do so. :coffeepap:
 
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in the minds of people.... you know, it's the place where ideas,concepts and understanding resides.

In the minds of SOME people. And that confirms the truth that there were no actual rights which protected anybody until government came along and said so. And if nothing was protected - there was no right in the real world in the first place.

You make a great witness for my own case.
 
This has been explained before. In a state of nature do human beings typically allow themselves to be killed? Or do they typically try to defend themselves by any means necessary?

Is the existence of any form of government necessary to guarantee this right? :no:

Of course not. They exercise free will and do so to the best of their ability.

You described the ability of an organism to defend itself. No more and no less than that. That is not a right.
 
Nice evasion. The OP is about the change inteh Dem. party from one that had as one of it's greatest leaders a man who's most famous statement is trampled in the mud by the very people who hold him in such esteem. Let's talk about that instead of using the thread as your soapbox for your anti-God screeds...

Don't be so trusting and naive. The OP is trolling for a discussion about natural rights.
 
You described the ability of an organism to defend itself. No more and no less than that. That is not a right.


thats for reaffirming what i said!.....WHO LOVES YOU BABE!:2razz:


unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

translation:

rights are unwritten law which consists of ones abilities which are natural to them, which the government recognizes and secures those very rights by law.
 
You described the ability of an organism to defend itself. No more and no less than that. That is not a right.

LOL That is exactly what a natural right is.

It is unimportant that you choose to think otherwise.

That is another right we have...to disagree. :lol:

P.S. That is also a right that is not dependent on any government or other group agreement.
 
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LOL That is exactly what a natural right is.

It is unimportant that you choose to think otherwise.

That is another right we have...to disagree. :lol:

P.S. That is also a right that is not dependent on any government or other group agreement.

hey wait!..... don't i need permission from my government to disagree with you.
 
Inaugural Address of President John F. Kennedy
Washington, D.C.
January 20, 1961

(Listen to this speech.)




The Left sure has changed 180 degrees. Quite astounding considering that Kennedy is probably thought to be one of the best Democrat presidents.

We never got to experience what a president he could have been. Kennedy believed in labor unions too, does that count? He believed that black people should be able to sit at a lunch counter with other citizens, Republicans in some areas today still don't believe in that right as the new blacks are the gays.

Yeah, things change. A president can talk all he wants about God - but he can't legislate God.... THAT hasn't changed; it's not supposed to.
 
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