Dezaad said:
But if he was not omniscient, then he was not fully god during that time. Are you prepared to make that claim?
Do you remember that He said on the cross "Why have you forsaken me?" My suggestion to you is that He did in fact seperate Himself from God and at least at that point in time was not omniscient, but a seperate part of Him, God the Father, sill remained omniscient.
Are you saying that Jesus was also born with a sinful nature? If not, then my statement stands.
I am saying that none of us are born in a sinful nature. I am saying that we all choose to be sinful. Jesus had the potential to be sinful, and He chose not to be.
I said nothing about intention. I said that: Knowing (without any doubt whatsoever), the outcome of an action, if the outcome is one you desire, precludes courage. A requirement of courage is uncertainty of outcome.
I would argue it takes courage for a suicide bomber to fly a plane into a building. There is no uncertainty about the outcome, but none the less, it's still courage. But even still, courage is not necessarly a human strength either, therefore just because we contain it and God does not doesn't really mean anything in the scheme of things. There are plenty of qualities that God has that we do not that sets Him apart from us.
We were talking about Eve being lied to. I was referring to the fact that if she had been given omniscience, she couldn't have been lied to. If a creature (Eve) has persistent omniscience, a lie would always be detected by that creature. The point is that her lack of omniscience made her susceptible to a clever talking snake. You had said "...they (Adam and Eve) were both told not to eat from the tree. She was lied to,..." I indicated that your argument was not helped by indicating that someone was deceived into disobeying God. God set it up so that she COULD be deceived.
You are arguing that only a malevolent God would allow us not to know everything about the world, because only someone who knows everything is not at all capable to deciet. God chose not to make us omniscient. He chose to make us human, and to allow us to learn things. You suggest that makes Him malevolent, I just suggest that we are His creation and He is allowed to make us any way He likes. Arguably, angels are informed in that manner. But we know they already exist. So then, if God created angels in this manner, then wouldn't it make sense that we were created differently than that?
These tools are pathetic compared to the tool omniscience would be in avoiding sin, no matter how much my nature tugs me toward sin. If you'd like, I'll explain why they're pathetic.
In otherwords, you want to be ominscient like God? Funny how that's how Eve fell isn't it? God gives you a way to wipe away every sin you make, no matter what it is. You're believe that that is a pathetical tool is your own, and it is, in my opinion absolutely ridiculous.
No, I don't think so. Do you know what was going through Eve's head? Were you there? In any case, in our day, it is ignorance.
No, but the Bible does tell us what was going through her head. We don't do so in ignorance, we do so in knowledge. But even if we were doing these things in ignorance, you have a way to clense yourself from them don't you?
But, let's clarify this 'ignorance': We are expected to be obedient to a God we cannot see, hear, touch. We are expected to simply believe, on paltry evidence, the fantastic claims that: 1. God exists 2. We are sinful in his eyes 3. The Bible is his word 4. Jesus was god, shoehorned into man's flesh 4. That he died and rose again as payment for our sins. 5. That believing in this outrageous set of tenets is how we cash in on the benefits. 6. That if ya don't cash in, yur gonna burn in hell.
So really, you're not ignorant to any of this are you? You are just choosing not to believe it. Which is a completely differnt thing. You aren't ignorant of your choice, you have just made a choice to the contrary, as I have stated before. By the way, where do you read in the Bible that you will "burn" in Hell?
Any one of these things standing alone is enough to make me roll my eyes. All of them together is characteristic of really good storytelling, but also characteristic of pure fantasy. So, if it does all happen to be true, I am definitely, currently, ignorant. This is no way to run a Universe.
No, you're not ignorant. You have been told these things, you are aware of their potential existance, and yet you think you have a better answer. That isn't ignorance, it's rejection. And that is what all of this is about. You aren't ignorant to God or His message, you are simply rejecting it because you think you have a better answer.
This depends on what you mean by "knew" in your first sentence. I believe that people wouldn't do bad things if they were persistently certain of the ultimate outcome of doing bad things.
Then I can honestly tell you that you are fooling yourself. Plenty of people act in horrible ways, fully aware of the consequences of their actions.
Yes! Amazing what evolution can concoct, isn't it? Natural selection caused both cultural memes and genetic disposition to lead toward a mankind that was more oriented toward cooperation and societal order. You don't think that is more plausible than a god that creates hells for people who eat from lucious looking trees? Especially given the mountains of evidence that support this naturalistic notion?
But many of the issues of right and wrong in the Bible are not matters of the social, but rather of the spiritual. I am still telling you that you have far too much pride in we as a species, and it will get you no where to believe this, because you will only come to see in history that we are definitely no closer to what is "right" as we continue to evolve. And there is not even an ant hill of evidence that would support your naturalistic notion, you are, in this instance, fabricating information.
