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The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Why?

Papa bull

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I think that cliche' is caused by yet another cliche'.

A fool and his money are soon parted. If people could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to get a deep breath of oxygen instead of methane, they might realize that rich can get poorer and poor can get richer and the real truth is that the SMART get richer and the DUMB get poorer. Give an idiot a fortune and they'll still wind up broke. Give a smart man a small amount of money and he will use it to improve and increase his fortune. Give an average man a small amount of money and it won't change his lot much at all in the long run.
 

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I think that cliche' is caused by yet another cliche'.

A fool and his money are soon parted. If people could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to get a deep breath of oxygen instead of methane, they might realize that rich can get poorer and poor can get richer and the real truth is that the SMART get richer and the DUMB get poorer. Give an idiot a fortune and they'll still wind up broke. Give a smart man a small amount of money and he will use it to improve and increase his fortune. Give an average man a small amount of money and it won't change his lot much at all in the long run.

Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage.

The smartest of us are far smarter than the least of us.

When a stronger person a abuses their strength it is obvious to the one being abused.

Not so much when the smarter abuse the less so. The latter is often unaware its even happening.
 

Papa bull

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Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage.

The smartest of us are far smarter than the least of us.

When a stronger person a abuses their strength it is obvious to the one being abused.

Not so much when the smarter abuse the less so. The latter is often unaware its even happening.

Good point. If someone was particularly stupid, they wouldn't even know they were being intellectually abused. I see that happen in debates on a regular basis.
 

Mach

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Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage.
The smartest of us are far smarter than the least of us.
When a stronger person a abuses their strength it is obvious to the one being abused.
Not so much when the smarter abuse the less so. The latter is often unaware its even happening.

That's absurd. There are countless people who in their vast intellect develop vast ego, or isolating depression, or chase a really hard problem and suffer their life away, in contrast to someone more humbly pursuing what ends up being a great life, solving real life problems with common sense, etc. That idea that you or anyone else can declare such things as absolutely better or worse, is fallacy on your part. Learn some gd humility.

Hell, being really smart can make you a threat, can result in you being overqualified, or overpriced. Success in the marketplace laughs at central planning like you're trying to do in declaring that you KNOW what's best and by extension, what is not. What a joke.
 

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Good point. If someone was particularly stupid, they wouldn't even know they were being intellectually abused. I see that happen in debates on a regular basis.

And I'm quite sure some very smart people have figured out how to game the system, turn it to their advantage.

So this has to have some bearing on the whole "rich getting richer" thing.
 

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That's absurd. There are countless people who in their vast intellect develop vast ego, or isolating depression, or chase a really hard problem and suffer their life away, in contrast to someone more humbly pursuing what ends up being a great life, solving real life problems with common sense, etc. That idea that you or anyone else can declare such things as absolutely better or worse, is fallacy on your part. Learn some gd humility.

Hell, being really smart can make you a threat, can result in you being overqualified, or overpriced. Success in the marketplace laughs at central planning like you're trying to do in declaring that you KNOW what's best and by extension, what is not. What a joke.

Where did I say anything about central planning?

Where did you get ALL of this from my post?

You are WAY too defensive.
 

soot

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SMART get richer and the DUMB get poorer.

I know some pretty smart people who are relatively poor.

I know more than a few exceptionally smart people who are middle, lower middle class at best.

Making money requires a lot more than just smarts.
 

Mach

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And I'm quite sure some very smart people have figured out how to game the system, turn it to their advantage.
So this has to have some bearing on the whole "rich getting richer" thing.

And other people who think they are smart rationalize for ego-sake that the game is rigged to justify their dismal failure at playing the game, or their outright avoidance of it.
On average having brains helps, but there are very poorly educated individuals who after years in an industry know their ****. They don't know anything else, but they know their industry, and it's often entirely sufficient to succeed. And being content with mediocrity may results in countless examples of someone just slogging it through and eventually being the last one standing, while the intellectual ivy league asshole chases the money or prestige and ends up with neither.
 

Diving Mullah

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I think that cliche' is caused by yet another cliche'.

A fool and his money are soon parted. If people could pull their heads out of their arses long enough to get a deep breath of oxygen instead of methane, they might realize that rich can get poorer and poor can get richer and the real truth is that the SMART get richer and the DUMB get poorer. Give an idiot a fortune and they'll still wind up broke. Give a smart man a small amount of money and he will use it to improve and increase his fortune. Give an average man a small amount of money and it won't change his lot much at all in the long run.

So according to your argument Hollywood is the hub of smartest people in the known universe??!!!

People like Britney, Hilton Girls, Kardashians are freaking noble laureates. But people like Gandhi, Biship tutu, Mandela, Benazir Bhutto, Einstein, Hawking, Darwin, Francis Crickk, Fermi, Plank, are dumb as a door nails(Since they were not rich by any measure). Speaking of Nails.... By your account Jesus must have been one freaking Retard!

Thanks for this brilliant insight!

Diving Mullah
 

Mach

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Where did I say anything about central planning?
Where did you get ALL of this from my post?
You are WAY too defensive.

"Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage."

You're making an absolute declaration. YOU know that it's the ONLY trait that confers true (unconditional?) advantage.
By contrast, you KNOW that no other trait does so.
Further, you know that in ever case (ad infintum) that it's always an advantage.

That you make this declaration as being true, and that means for everyone else...that's akin to central planning. Call it god complex, or just an error, that's not the central theme so ignore it entirely too, all good.

I'm just informing you that you know don't such things with any credible certainty, and that such hubris about intellect has lead to countless personal and historic examples of personal failure, calamity, etc.
 

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And other people who think they are smart rationalize for ego-sake that the game is rigged to justify their dismal failure at playing the game, or their outright avoidance of it.
On average having brains helps, but there are very poorly educated individuals who after years in an industry know their ****. They don't know anything else, but they know their industry, and it's often entirely sufficient to succeed. And being content with mediocrity may results in countless examples of someone just slogging it through and eventually being the last one standing, while the intellectual ivy league asshole chases the money or prestige and ends up with neither.

What does any of that have to do with the very smart being able to get away with gaming the system?

Bearing in mind that they devise said systems.

Do you think an average person came up with complex derivatives?
 

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"Bear in mind that intellect, raw brain power, is the one trait that confers a true advantage."

You're making an absolute declaration. YOU know that it's the ONLY trait that confers true (unconditional?) advantage.
By contrast, you KNOW that no other trait does so.
Further, you know that in ever case (ad infintum) that it's always an advantage.

That you make this declaration as being true, and that means for everyone else...that's akin to central planning. Call it god complex, or just an error, that's not the central theme so ignore it entirely too, all good.

I'm just informing you that you know don't such things with any credible certainty, and that such hubris about intellect has lead to countless personal and historic examples of personal failure, calamity, etc.

Look me in the eye and tell me the smartest person you know can't completely fool the least intelligent person you know if they chose to do so.
 

AlabamaPaul

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What does any of that have to do with the very smart being able to get away with gaming the system?

Bearing in mind that they devise said systems.

Do you think an average person came up with complex derivatives?

I could support a carefully drafted financial transaction tax proposal to alleviate some of your concerns...
 

Papa bull

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I know some pretty smart people who are relatively poor.

I know more than a few exceptionally smart people who are middle, lower middle class at best.

Making money requires a lot more than just smarts.

Absolutely. You have to apply the intelligence to money matters. If you apply it to collecting pokemon cards or memorizing the Bible word for word or mastering World of Warcraft, you probably won't fare well.
 

Papa bull

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What does any of that have to do with the very smart being able to get away with gaming the system?

Bearing in mind that they devise said systems.

Do you think an average person came up with complex derivatives?

I think it's smart to use whatever the rules allow that will profit you the most. I don't think smart is a bad thing.
 

specklebang

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Where were you when I needed you:). Exactly that. http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-spending-and-debt/138622-speckle-tax-final-solution.html The transaction tax would finally level the playing field and our masters don't want that.

Also, poor people have poor ways. I know a lot of poor people and they make bad decisions - one of them being they give too much charity that they can't afford. Sweet, but foolish.

OTOH, rich people (some) have forgotten to share with their workers thus dragging their own country down.



I could support a carefully drafted financial transaction tax proposal to alleviate some of your concerns...
 

Mach

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Look me in the eye and tell me the smartest person you know can't completely fool the least intelligent person you know if they chose to do so.
Irrelevant.

You have absolutely no experience in sales I would have to guess. Sales is largely about treating everyone as if they are fools, because the really intelligent make just as foolish purchasing decisions as the foolish. Someone with the gift of persuasion can get your buy. The intellectual are busy, often in their overly intellectual jobs, they don't have any more time than anyone else to analyze every purchase decisions or the job benefits offered, etc. Some do, but most do not. Sure rationally you may go analyze the pros and cons later and understand the flaws in their reasoning, and commend yourself for being smarter...and it may be true. But at the end of the day you bought it, and in many cases you'd never think to analyze it, and frankly, you wouldn't even want to. Many of us buy for emotional reasons, we want to feel good about it, the rest be damned. Hell, much of our modern marketing is based on status and association with status. Sure the designer stuff has no intellectually valid benefit in terms of material or performance, but the cool sports star is wearing it.

Just temper your absolutes and remember that any strength is also a weakness. I've seen some dumb but cunning people...hell some animals are arguably super dumb but institutional can do some amazing things to us "smart" humans. The rabbits in my backyard outsmart me all the god damned time the little furry demons...
 

AlabamaPaul

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Where were you when I needed you:). Exactly that. http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-spending-and-debt/138622-speckle-tax-final-solution.html The transaction tax would finally level the playing field and our masters don't want that.

Also, poor people have poor ways. I know a lot of poor people and they make bad decisions - one of them being they give too much charity that they can't afford. Sweet, but foolish.

OTOH, rich people (some) have forgotten to share with their workers thus dragging their own country down.

This is why I used the caveat "carefully drafted". I would not support a tax on all financial transactions, but stock trades, options, credit default swaps, derivatives, etc... could all be in play above some minimal amount...
 

Mach

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What does any of that have to do with the very smart being able to get away with gaming the system?
Bearing in mind that they devise said systems.
Do you think an average person came up with complex derivatives?

We don't do nearly as much of that as in other societies, fraud, collusions, corruption, lots of good laws preventing it, lots of corporate ethics disincentivizing it. I think it's a testament to our society that we have reduce the necessity of simple outsmarting or being outsmarted to such a degree in our market. Sure it could always be more so, but there comes a time where you give up too much for too small of a gain in a different area, so to speak.

I think for many "smart people", the evidence is that they too didn't understand complex derivatives. The dumb but untrusting individual might have avoided it following old wisdom of don't buy what you can't pay cash for that their papa taught them...the intellectual went all-in on the derivatives and lost their shirt?
 

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I think it's smart to use whatever the rules allow that will profit you the most. I don't think smart is a bad thing.

Like anything else its what you do with the tools you have.

The problem arises when the amorally smart get to make the rules.
 

specklebang

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Why not all? This way everyone pays something. If you make 20K a year, you'll pay $400. If you are making mega-bucks, why you'll pay more. So wqhat's wrong with EVERY (non-cash) transaction being taxed. Speckle-tax is carefully drafted. Specklebang For President 2016.
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my naime is bugaboo and I improved this massage


This is why I used the caveat "carefully drafted". I would not support a tax on all financial transactions, but stock trades, options, credit default swaps, derivatives, etc... could all be in play above some minimal amount...
 

AlabamaPaul

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Why not all? This way everyone pays something. If you make 20K a year, you'll pay $400. If you are making mega-bucks, why you'll pay more. So wqhat's wrong with EVERY (non-cash) transaction being taxed. Speckle-tax is carefully drafted. Specklebang For President 2016.
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my naime is bugaboo and I improved this massage

You've got to go where the money is and where it doesn't affect the average individual. Otherwise, you end up with little more than a "sales" tax...
 

soot

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Absolutely. You have to apply the intelligence to money matters. If you apply it to collecting pokemon cards or memorizing the Bible word for word or mastering World of Warcraft, you probably won't fare well.

I agree with that in theory, but I think there's a awful lot of ground between spending your life trading OTC derivatives and spending your life trading pokemon cards.

Your initial theory was: Give an idiot a fortune and they'll still wind up broke. Give a smart man a small amount of money and he will use it to improve and increase his fortune. Give an average man a small amount of money and it won't change his lot much at all in the long run.

My point is, maybe yes, maybe no.

Just by way of example, I have a friend who is in the Army and has been for the past 19 years.

These days he's a very senior Special Forces Medical Sargeant. He has a Masters Degree in Psycology from AMU. He speaks passable Arabic and Farsi. He's cross-trained in numerous special operations and counter terrorisim disciplines.

Suffice it to say that the guy is no dummy.

If you gave him a little money he'd piss it away on his kids and if there was some left over he'd probably use it to fix up the house some.

If you gave him a lot of money he'd do the same, but maybe throw a new Harley into the mix.

According to your standard he'd net out the way you expect a man of "average" intellect would.

But there's absolutely nothing average about this guy's intellect.

What you're failing to consider are things like motivation, desire, aptitudes, ethics, and a host of other factors that figure into the equation.
 

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We don't do nearly as much of that as in other societies, fraud, collusions, corruption, lots of good laws preventing it, lots of corporate ethics disincentivizing it. I think it's a testament to our society that we have reduce the necessity of simple outsmarting or being outsmarted to such a degree in our market. Sure it could always be more so, but there comes a time where you give up too much for too small of a gain in a different area, so to speak.

I think for many "smart people", the evidence is that they too didn't understand complex derivatives. The dumb but untrusting individual might have avoided it following old wisdom of don't buy what you can't pay cash for that their papa taught them...the intellectual went all-in on the derivatives and lost their shirt?

But I'm going to bet the clever monkeys who came up with CDs and those they were working for profited handsomely. Which is the point.
 

Papa bull

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I agree with that in theory, but I think there's a awful lot of ground between spending your life trading OTC derivatives and spending your life trading pokemon cards.

Your initial theory was: Give an idiot a fortune and they'll still wind up broke. Give a smart man a small amount of money and he will use it to improve and increase his fortune. Give an average man a small amount of money and it won't change his lot much at all in the long run.

My point is, maybe yes, maybe no.

Just by way of example, I have a friend who is in the Army and has been for the past 19 years.

These days he's a very senior Special Forces Medical Sargeant. He has a Masters Degree in Psycology from AMU. He speaks passable Arabic and Farsi. He's cross-trained in numerous special operations and counter terrorisim disciplines.

Suffice it to say that the guy is no dummy.

If you gave him a little money he'd piss it away on his kids and if there was some left over he'd probably use it to fix up the house some.

If you gave him a lot of money he'd do the same, but maybe throw a new Harley into the mix.

According to your standard he'd net out the way you expect a man of "average" intellect would.

But there's absolutely nothing average about this guy's intellect.

What you're failing to consider are things like motivation, desire, aptitudes, ethics, and a host of other factors that figure into the equation.

I agree. It's all in how you use it. That goes for "the smart" as well as "the rich".
 
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