The Rich, are rich BECAUSE of ME!

[Henrin]

I don't think you even have any idea what you mean. "There is no need for regulations, only courts with access". That literally makes no sense.

You assume far to much in your position when you say they wouldn't be any laws. Do you not even see that or this more of that wonderful hyperbole?

 

[whysoserious]

You assume far to much in your position when you say they wouldn't be any laws. Do you not even see that or this more of that wonderful hyperbole?

Why don't you cite an example instead of talking down your nose to me? How do you have a law without regulations (the regulations basically being the guideline for the law)? You sure do use that word hyperbole a lot. Have you ever seen Kids in the Hall?

 

[Camlon]

Some Simple Math:

10 x 40 = 400, 400 x 4 = $1,600 for a month(10 is 4 bucks more than fed min wage)

For families with 1 to 4 members:

Rent: $600 to $1400
Power, water sewer & garbage: $100 to $200
Food: $200 to $600
Sundries: $70 to $160
After all that, there's nothing left for TAXES, auto insurance and fuel, or medical copays and emergencies .. nevermind iPhones, cable TV and Dolce & Gabbana!

First off, why is only one family member working? For a mother with a child, you will only need a one bedroom apartment. Then a one bedroom apartment cost about 400 USD in for instance Kansas. Also, they will recieve various credits for children. Don't really know how much they are, but let's say 400USD.

Food; judging from what my friend spend. He spends about 20 USD per week on food. So I would say 200 USD should be enough for a mother and a child per month. So in total the cost would be 500 USD. That would give them room of 1100 USD to spend on other things.

 

[whysoserious]

First off, why is only one family member working? For a mother with a child, you will only need a one bedroom apartment. Then a one bedroom apartment cost about 400 USD in for instance Kansas. Also, they will recieve various credits for children. Don't really know how much they are, but let's say 400USD.

Food; judging from what my friend spend. He spends about 20 USD per week on food. So I would say 200 USD should be enough for a mother and a child. So in total the cost would be 500 USD. That would give them room of 1100 USD to spend on other things.

That's not the case here. 20 USD will probably get you through 2 days at best on a healthy diet. One reason only one parent might work is that daycare may be more expensive than what they earn. Others may be more conservative and believe that only the man should work while the woman stays home.

 

[Camlon]

That's not the case here. 20 USD will probably get you through 2 days at best on a healthy diet. One reason only one parent might work is that daycare may be more expensive than what they earn. Others may be more conservative and believe that only the man should work while the woman stays home.

Beans cost 1 USD per pound
Cabbage cost 1 USD per pund.
Rice cost 1 USD per pound

So for 3 dollars, you will have food for 2 days. You can't just eat healthy, you also need to eat smart.

 

[whysoserious]

Beans cost 1 USD per pound
Cabbage cost 1 USD per pund.
Rice cost 1 USD per pound

So for 3 dollars, you will have food for 2 days. You can't just eat healthy, you also need to eat smart.

I live here and I shop weekly. I think I know how much it costs to eat. 6 bananas for instance is going to be about 2 dollars, 2 oranges will be about $2.50, chicken breast strips (the cheapest of the chicken buys) is about $4.00. That's already almost $10 and we are no where close to having food for even two days.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who lives in the US and lives on $20 a week for groceries.

 

[Camlon]

I live here and I shop weekly. I think I know how much it costs to eat. 6 bananas for instance is going to be about 2 dollars, 2 oranges will be about $2.50, chicken breast strips (the cheapest of the chicken buys) is about $4.00. That's already almost $10 and we are no where close to having food for even two days.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who lives in the US and lives on $20 a week for groceries.

Why do you think I said "You can't just eat healthy, you also need to eat smart."

Bananas are expensive, similar with oranges and chicken. I only buy them as a luxury. You said that 20 USD would only last for 2 days in America, but that seemed to only be the case if you are careless.

If you eat cabbage, rice, and beans for dinner. You can live on 10 USD per week. If you add some other vegetables/grains in your diet to become more healthy, then you can certainaly live on 20 USD per week in America. In fact food prices in America is pretty much identical to New Zealand, so if it is possible in New Zealand then it is possible in America.

 

[whysoserious]

Why do you think I said "You can't just eat healthy, you also need to eat smart."

Bananas are expensive, similar with oranges and chicken. I only buy them as a luxury. You said that 20 USD would only last for 2 days in America, but that seemed to only be the case if you are careless.

If you eat cabbage, rice, and beans for dinner. You can live on 10 USD per week. If you add some other vegetables in your diet to become more healthy, then you can certainaly live on 20 USD per week in America. In fact food prices in America is pretty much identical to New Zealand, so if it is possible in New Zealand then it is possible in America.

So you think people should live off of cabbage, beans, and rice? True, you'll get some protein from the beans, but I think most people would prefer some meat in their diets here. Also, its kind of a staple to make sure that you have some fruit daily as well. But you may be right, if you stick to just those basics you might be able to pull it off and still be relatively healthy. I am not aware whether or not sticking to rice, beans, and cabbage is a healthy diet or not.

 

[Camlon]

So you think people should live off of cabbage, beans, and rice? True, you'll get some protein from the beans, but I think most people would prefer some meat in their diets here. Also, its kind of a staple to make sure that you have some fruit daily as well. But you may be right, if you stick to just those basics you might be able to pull it off and still be relatively healthy. I am not aware whether or not sticking to rice, beans, and cabbage is a healthy diet or not.

I don't expect people to live on beans, cabbage and rice. I expect people to have some luxeries once in a while. America is not poor country. However, if you only eat neccecities and can eat for 90 USD per month. I think 200 - 250 USD should be enough for a mother and her child who want to save money.

In New Zealand we have a challenge called, living below the line. That means you are going to live on less than 1.5 USD per day for a week.

 

[whysoserious]

I don't expect people to live on beans, cabbage and rice. I expect people to have some luxeries once in a while. America is not poor country. However, if you only eat neccecities and can eat for 90 USD per month. I think 200 - 250 USD should be enough for a mother and her child who want to save money.

I wouldn't argue that. They could probably get close, if not in that range. Baby food can be quite expensive, but I do think a mom and her kid could probably do that - especially if the kid is in a public school because most public schools offer a free lunch (or really cheap lunch) to students.

 

[Awesome!]

I think this is great. A liberal learning how to live on less without talk of the greedy 1% or can't do anything without government help etc. There is hope! Not sure about that diet though, probably would be farting up a storm eating cabbage and beans...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It cost .50cents to cut down the 2 trees needed to make the bed and cut it into appropriate sections (he got the logs himself from off his property).

Now I really have to call bulls***.

50¢ to cut down two trees and cut them up? What is minimum wage these days? Around $8/hour, I think. At $8/hour, 50¢ would buy only 1/16 of an hour, or three minutes and forty-five seconds of labor. I'm sure this gentleman considers his time and labor to be worth more than $8/hour, but even assuming he does not, are you going to claim that he can cut down two trees, and cut them into the necessary pieces, in only 3¾ minutes?

Its only stupid if all you care about is money.

That is rather the point of running a business, isn't it?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You have no idea what I meant, do you?

I very much doubt if you have any idea what you meant. How, then, can you possibly expect anyone else to know?

 

[Henrin]

I very much doubt if you have any idea what you meant. How, then, can you possibly expect anyone else to know?

Come on, of course I know what I meant.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Now I really have to call bulls***.

50¢ to cut down two trees and cut them up? What is minimum wage these days? Around $8/hour, I think. At $8/hour, 50¢ would buy only 1/16 of an hour, or three minutes and forty-five seconds of labor. I'm sure this gentleman considers his time and labor to be worth more than $8/hour, but even assuming he does not, are you going to claim that he can cut down two trees, and cut them into the necessary pieces, in only 3¾ minutes?

He didn't even pay his employees an hourly wage. He paid by the foot. That .50 cents was chain saw gas cost.

That is rather the point of running a business, isn't it?

Not necessarily. If it was then there would be no ice rinks, bowling alley's, theatre's etc etc as those types of buisnesses are not known for thier money making opportunities. When was the last time that you heard of multiple AJ's Bowling Alley's all owned by a the same multi-millionaire?

 

[Gipper]

That's not the case here. 20 USD will probably get you through 2 days at best on a healthy diet. One reason only one parent might work is that daycare may be more expensive than what they earn.

A good argument for not having a kid in the first place. I don't go out and buy a Cadillac I can't afford, so she shouldn't go and have a kid she can't afford.

They'd repo my Cadillac, just like they should do with her kid.

Also, I feed myself pretty well on about 35-40 bucks a week. I wouldn't go 20 though. I had enough bologna sandwiches and mac & cheese in college.

 

[whysoserious]

A good argument for not having a kid in the first place. I don't go out and buy a Cadillac I can't afford, so she shouldn't go and have a kid she can't afford.

They'd repo my Cadillac, just like they should do with her kid.

Also, I feed myself pretty well on about 35-40 bucks a week. I wouldn't go 20 though. I had enough bologna sandwiches and mac & cheese in college.

You're right, they should have aborted it.

 

[KevinKohler]

You and I define "greed" very differently.

Greed is wanting more than you need.


Taken to the extreme, is wanting MUCH more than you need. To the point of wanting to have everything.

 

[KevinKohler]

I agree. I think that the definition of "greed" may be an issue here. If people defined greed the way I do, surely they wouldn't support "greedy" activity.

To me "greed" is when the desire to acquire money or property or control exceeds ones ability to use good moral judgement.

I sell signs. Of course I want to make all the money I can selling signs as long as doing so is moral and legal. From time to time I have someone to ask for a product that is clearly not the best product for their need. I am the sign professional, not them, so I council and guide then into making a decision that is rational and will give the the most sign for the least amount of money. A few weeks ago someone from a local college called me wanting 100 "cut vinyl yard signs", I could immediately tell that they were spending the colleges money and didn't really care that cut vinyl signs cost $30 each, they were just placing an order as they were told to do. I asked a few questions and determined that there was no need for "cut vinyl" and that a product that would fill there need for just $4 each would be 100 screen printed signs since all the signs were identical (cut vinyl is for very small quantities). I probably could have screen printed the signs and charged them $3,000, and they probably would have paid, since they didn't know any better. Instead, I recommended the screen printed signs for $400, and they agreed that made better sense. I did what I felt was the moral thing to do, even though some people would probably suggest that a more profitable sales technique would have been to have taken the order for 100 $30 signs.

When these Wall Street fellows were making morgages that they new were very risky, and then bundling them into CDO's, and paying rating companies to give the CDO's a top rating, they by God KNEW that they were selling a crap product for a top price under misleading circumstances. Or when they call their clients and try to push a particular stock on them, just because management has told them that they would be given a bonus for selling shares of that particular stock, that is fixing to go under, thats greed. The investors is not an expert, the salesperson is presenting himself as an expert, has a certain responsibility to only sell products that they think will provide good results to the customer. When they make their recommendations based not upon a good value to the customer, but based soley upon making more money for themselves, thats "greed". It is most certainly a sin, and while it may not be illegal, it is certainly immoral.

What is not "greed" is the desire to make as much money as one can, while acting with good moral judgement. So if I have a product that costs me very little, but is of good quality and utility, and as long as I represent the product to be exactly what it is, and as long as I am not putting the customer into duress with sales tricks or high pressure tactics or threats or any of that nonsense, then I am not greedy when I try to sell as many units as I can, regardless of the fact that I am making a big profit from each unit.

The desire for riches is not the root of all evil, but greed is the root of a lot of evil.

Morals are irrelevant, as they vary from person to person, religion to religion, and situation to situation.

 

[TurtleDude]

Greed is wanting more than you need.


Taken to the extreme, is wanting MUCH more than you need. To the point of wanting to have everything.

real greed is demanding you have the right in determining what someone else needs and taking from HIM what you think YOU Need

 

[KevinKohler]

Without laws and regulations, there would be nothing to punish for and there would be no one to monitor their activity. That, my friend, is a bad plan.

I agree it's a bad plan, but I believe he is talking about something totally different. He is saying, without regulation, a company that spills mercury in the water will still be held liable for that action, to the society that relies on that water. I could be wrong though...I am no anarcho capitalist.

 

[KevinKohler]

That's not the case here. 20 USD will probably get you through 2 days at best on a healthy diet. One reason only one parent might work is that daycare may be more expensive than what they earn. Others may be more conservative and believe that only the man should work while the woman stays home.

You get money spent on daycare back at the end of the year, and if you can't live a week on 20 dollars, then you must have a very expensive diet. I feel like we have had this conversation before...

 

[KevinKohler]

I live here and I shop weekly. I think I know how much it costs to eat. 6 bananas for instance is going to be about 2 dollars, 2 oranges will be about $2.50, chicken breast strips (the cheapest of the chicken buys) is about $4.00. That's already almost $10 and we are no where close to having food for even two days.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who lives in the US and lives on $20 a week for groceries.

OK, well, first, don't buy the chicken breast strips, lol. If you MUST have white meat (I like the dark), buy the entire breast, it's always cheaper per pound. In CT, one of the most expensive states to live in, a pack of breasts costs around 4.99 per pound. Skip the oranges, they are out of season, and will cost more as a result. Bananas, too. Go with apples right now, they are in season. Pears, too. And for that chicken, you can also buy big packs of legs or thighs at around 1 buck a pound. You can also pick up some ground beef, 3.99 a pound or so these days (THAT **** has gone up in price), some egg noodles, a pint of sour cream, and a pack of mushrooms. Next, pick up some rice, and some broccoli, and a thing of teriyaki. You got the makings for 2 HUGE meals, making more than enough leftovers for the rest of the week. And you didn't break the bank.

The reason why americans spend so much on food is because people don't know how to cook anymore. So they buy ready to eat food. Which costs a lot more, and delivers a lot less.

 

[1Perry]

Greed is wanting more than you need.

I can not say for sure how much I'll need. Can anyone tell me how long I'll live? What costs will be 25 years from now?

 

[KevinKohler]

I wouldn't argue that. They could probably get close, if not in that range. Baby food can be quite expensive, but I do think a mom and her kid could probably do that - especially if the kid is in a public school because most public schools offer a free lunch (or really cheap lunch) to students.

Formula costs a FORTUNE. BUT. There are so many freaking ways to get it for free, according to my wife, that it's just silly. There are ALWAYS massive coupons for it, between 5 and 15 dollars off, and the like. You put yourself on a couple of mailing lists, and yeah, you deal with some spam, some junk mail, but you get your formula for half off or more.