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The Republicans’ Gay Freakout

I am not Christian, but you dont sound like you are either. I am a conservative and do vote Republican, and so the institution of Marriage and Life are on my agenda and it bugs the hell out of me that idiots that say they are in my party have no idea what a very fundamental part of the party is all about.

your party and religion will go the way of the dixiecrats if they court people with your views much longer

you'll end up joining the southern baptists and the christian liberty party - with its whopping 2 candidates for congress - out of frustration that no one else sees your hatred as a national priority

or you'll get over it. The choice and the problem is yours
 
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Republican Christian here. I don't give a crap about gays. Or abortion for that matter. It annoys the hell out of me that the idiots in my party let that even remotely be a factor in elections.

i would like it to not be a factor as well, but it's rather difficult when one party does everything possible to destroy your rights that were thought to be secured 40 years ago (like to not be discriminated against in cities like durham and ann arbor)
 
Freedom of religion doesn't require people to participate in activities which run counter to their religion. If you didn't want legislation like this to become necessary, you shouldn't have persecuted people for exercising their religious freedoms. Not sure what you expected. :shrug:

Actually freedom of religion doesn't have anything to do with your job or laws, unless the government or laws are targeting specific religious beliefs or religions in the laws. if a person believes that God doesn't like single dads but has no issue with single moms, and their state allows single parent adoption, that person cannot refuse to deal with single fathers or simply refuse to allow single fathers to adopt because such adoptions violate his religion.
 
A gay wedding is most certainly a homosexual activity. Being forced to photograph it is participating in a ceremony that a gay marriage is, by definition, a homosexual activity. If it were a heterosexual activity, a man and a woman would be getting married. Certainly the levels of self deception are not so deep on the other side as not to be able to even register that something so fundamentally immoral to one side should be made by law suit a requirement by the other side?

Complete bull****.

If you photographed an interracial marriage, are you participating in interracial activity ?

No, you'd be participating in photography, you know, your occupation.

Now, if you can't handle your occupation, ****ting on gay people's rights won't help you.
 
Oh really? Soooo, ruining a person's life and lively hood because they don't want to participate in a SSM is not forcing? Give me a break already, you are fooling nobody.
For quite awhile now we've had laws (varied depending on area, I think?) that basically are designed to prevent stores and businesses from discriminating against customers for a variety of reasons, both real and imagined.

So far as I am aware, the only recent change has been to add gay persons (and more specifically, married gay persons) to the list.

If you take issue with such laws, then fine, that's a position I can understand (although I probably disagree, depending on specific circumstances).
If you're taking issue specifically with the addition of gay persons and SSM to the "do not discriminate" list, then that's hypocritical.
 
For those who thought obergefell meant they will have to 'move on' from discriminating against lgbt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/opinion/sunday/the-republicans-gay-freakout.html?_r=0

"OUR infrastructure is inexcusable, much of our public education is miserable and one of our leading presidential candidates is a know-nothing, say-anything egomaniac who yanks harder every day at the tattered fabric of civil discourse and fundamental decency in this country.

But let’s by all means worry about the gays! Let’s make sure they know their place...

It takes forever in this country to build a new bridge, tunnel or train line, but it took no time flat for politicians in the Tar Heel State to convene a special session, formally ostracize North Carolina’s L.G.B.T. voters and wrap conservative Christians in a tight embrace. Who says America’s can-do spirit is dead?...

Apparently conservatives love the concept of local control when the locality being given control tilts right, but they have a different view when it leans left."


very well-written IMO. Remember the 'states' rights' nonsense? Well whatever happened to citys' rights??



This only emphasizes the need for federal protections (the only kind i believe in, precisely because anything less is only transitory), or else this farce will drag on and on for decades more

I do not accept the illegitimate, arbitrary edict in Obergefell, and I hope both the next President and the states where majorities do not approve of homosexual marriage will refuse to comply with it. That would be a very sharp reminder to the Supreme Court that it has no power to enforce its decisions.

Your obvious contempt for the Tenth Amendment is hardly surprising, but it IS revealing. Most of the people who share your views on this subject share your disrespect of the Constitution.
 
I do not accept the illegitimate, arbitrary edict in Obergefell, and I hope both the next President and the states where majorities do not approve of homosexual marriage will refuse to comply with it. That would be a very sharp reminder to the Supreme Court that it has no power to enforce its decisions.

Your obvious contempt for the Tenth Amendment is hardly surprising, but it IS revealing. Most of the people who share your views on this subject share your disrespect of the Constitution.

It sounds like you think the constitution only means what you want it to mean.

What an obscenely perverted argument.
 
But that is the point. If you have a right to discriminate, it is immoral for there to be illegal discrimination. What you are doing is criminalizing an individual right in order to protect a non-existent right. You don't have a right to not be discriminated against. We have made it unlawful to do that, but at the cost of another right. So, yes, you are in the anti-rights camp whether you understand it or not.

The right to discriminate is not unlimited. When you make certain choices in life about what you want to do with that life you also tend to place limits on your rights, whether it is working for the government (a male soldier can't say it violates his religion to work with a woman), or working for an employer (an employee can't refuse to serve all Muslims without facing consequences such as getting fired), or running your own business (all businesses open to the public must abide by public accommodation laws).
 
No one should be 'forced' to sell another man anything. If I don't want to sell you a knife simply because you have red hair, that is my business. And since we are both free and equal men, you are out of luck and must purchase a knife elsewhere. Like it or not, I have a right to not wish to deal with anyone I don't wish to deal with. That is how a free society is supposed to operate. we don't have a free society, so the totalitarian side (your side) wins.

This is not reality. Whether it is how you believe it should work or not, we have to balance rights in reality. And reality tells us that people are dependent on others in a society like ours, to a very large degree and we cannot allow people to refuse service to others when they open a business open to the public to sell the public goods and services just because the person selling them has some issue with that other person. That creates hardships on certain people in a way that can do them harm, without causing any demonstrable hardships on the other person.
 
Its bigotry to force someone against their religious beliefs to do something abhorrent to them, sure it is. Its an intolerance that your side would never stand for, showing your own intolerance.

Bigotry = intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

No it isn't. It is called balancing rights and commerce within a society.
 
A gay wedding is most certainly a homosexual activity. Being forced to photograph it is participating in a ceremony that a gay marriage is, by definition, a homosexual activity. If it were a heterosexual activity, a man and a woman would be getting married. Certainly the levels of self deception are not so deep on the other side as not to be able to even register that something so fundamentally immoral to one side should be made by law suit a requirement by the other side?

They are not forced to participate because they chose to enter into that particular business.

Maybe we should make people sign a paper that is explained in detail to them that when they choose to open a business, they are voluntarily agreeing to operate that business in accordance with public accommodation laws which means that certain groups of people might make them uncomfortable doing business with or even violate their religious beliefs so they need to think really damn hard before they actually enter into that business if they want to do that. Would y'all not be saying that a home owner who has to live by the rules of his/her HOA chose to buy that particular property and so chose to live by those rules?
 
Oh really? Soooo, ruining a person's life and lively hood because they don't want to participate in a SSM is not forcing? Give me a break already, you are fooling nobody.

If they are resourceful, determined, and hardworking, like conservatives claim they are, that should mean that they are able to do other things, adapt and overcome to rely on another way to earn a livelihood.
 
worthless strawman, that has nothing with the north carolina law

worthless strawman, that has nothing with the north carolina law
We were having a civilzed discussion about issues.

This is part of a larger nationwide debate, part of the understanding of the authoritarian mindset from your side that the rest of us must cower and accept the unreasonable dictates that are becoming more and more absurd with each coming day.

The very idea that because someone is so conflicted by their own birth gender that they cannot use the proper bathroom designed for exactly that purpose, well, we have yet to develop the word for just how depraved and stupid that idea is. Why must you folks attempt at every turn to deprive us of every least little bit of our dignity and what little privacy we have remaining in a public bathroom?

I guess we can all thank god the folks of North Carolina are proving not to be pantywaists, eh? Ha ha ha.
 
your party and religion will go the way of the dixiecrats if they court people with your views much longer

you'll end up joining the southern baptists and the christian liberty party - with its whopping 2 candidates for congress - out of frustration that no one else sees your hatred as a national priority

or you'll get over it. The choice and the problem is yours
Yeah yeah yeah, in your dreams.

You see, that is what happened to the DEMOCRAT party when they went off the deep end in trying to subjugate the whole southern region in what was a failing idea, in bathrooms and water fountains no less. Your side is trying to do the same now with these just plain outrageous and silly demands that nobody should even pay attention to. At all.

Its pure lunacy to believe the American public is that naive.
 
They are not forced to participate because they chose to enter into that particular business.

Maybe we should make people sign a paper that is explained in detail to them that when they choose to open a business, they are voluntarily agreeing to operate that business in accordance with public accommodation laws which means that certain groups of people might make them uncomfortable doing business with or even violate their religious beliefs so they need to think really damn hard before they actually enter into that business if they want to do that. Would y'all not be saying that a home owner who has to live by the rules of his/her HOA chose to buy that particular property and so chose to live by those rules?
Occam's Razor.

It would be much simpler if we just had people who are choosing to be this way, that are following a deviant path, not the norm, when they choose they can sign a paper of understanding that since they have chosen this path that the rest of us, people who have a priority 1st Amendment freedom, which is an inalienable right, have the full right not to have their religious beliefs violated nor make a law respecting prohibiting the free exercise of that religion... the state cannot make a law doing so, by the Constitutional mandate, is that not correct?

`"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thereof..."

Pretty succinct, sane and easily comprehensible language. Even Supreme Court Justices should be able to understand.
 
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For those who thought obergefell meant they will have to 'move on' from discriminating against lgbt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/opinion/sunday/the-republicans-gay-freakout.html?_r=0

"OUR infrastructure is inexcusable, much of our public education is miserable and one of our leading presidential candidates is a know-nothing, say-anything egomaniac who yanks harder every day at the tattered fabric of civil discourse and fundamental decency in this country.

But let’s by all means worry about the gays! Let’s make sure they know their place...

It takes forever in this country to build a new bridge, tunnel or train line, but it took no time flat for politicians in the Tar Heel State to convene a special session, formally ostracize North Carolina’s L.G.B.T. voters and wrap conservative Christians in a tight embrace. Who says America’s can-do spirit is dead?...

Apparently conservatives love the concept of local control when the locality being given control tilts right, but they have a different view when it leans left."


very well-written IMO. Remember the 'states' rights' nonsense? Well whatever happened to citys' rights??


This only emphasizes the need for federal protections (the only kind i believe in, precisely because anything less is only transitory), or else this farce will drag on and on for decades more

governments have powers not rights, in our federal system there is only federal and state powers, cities are under state authority.
 
Occam's Razor.

It would be much simpler if we just had people who are choosing to be this way, that are following a deviant path, not the norm, when they choose they can sign a paper of understanding that since they have chosen this path that the rest of us, people who have a priority 1st Amendment freedom, which is an inalienable right, have the full right not to have their religious beliefs violated nor make a law respecting prohibiting the free exercise of that religion... the state cannot make a law doing so, by the Constitutional mandate, is that not correct?

`"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof thereof..."

Pretty succinct, sane and easily comprehensible language. Even Supreme Court Justices should be able to understand.

No one chooses to be gay. And that isn't how our society works. Plus public accommodation laws don't just apply to sexuality. If that is the beef, then it is the business owners who need to be the ones adjusting to society. They have plenty of options available.
 
Your rights end where my rights begin. You can't use your religion as a crutch for discrimination.

But you can use your beliefs to curtail others beliefs and rightS?

Fascinating hypocrisy.
 
Where have I said this?
Lol, you don't even see it. Both sides are equally guilty of trampling on the other sides rights all in the name of "thier" beliefs.
 
Lol, you don't even see it. Both sides are equally guilty of trampling on the other sides rights all in thr nsme of "thier" beliefs.

I have to hear this, give us an example of a right that is trampled by gay marriage.
 
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