The Reign Of Morons Is Here

[head of joaquin]

Show your source.

I love it when conservatives pretend.

 

[mpg]

Why is this thread in this sub-forum?

 

[Moot]

Show your source.

House Democrats Have Appointed Conferees

House Budget Committee Democrats Urge Boehner to Immediately Appoint Budget Conferees | House Budget Committee Democrats

http://democrats.budget.house.gov/p...rence-until-speaker-appoints-members-hash-out

Latest News | House Budget Committee Democrats

 

[Surtr]

Charles Pierce is a bit upset

The Reign Of Morons Is Here​

He's also blatantly ripping off Hunter S Thompson.

 

[sawdust]

We have devolved into an Idocracy. It's both the major parties. They think that people inside the beltway believe the same things that they believe in Middle America. Term limits is a bad idea whose time has come.

 

[clownboy]

House Democrats Have Appointed Conferees

House Budget Committee Democrats Urge Boehner to Immediately Appoint Budget Conferees | House Budget Committee Democrats

Van Hollen on MSNBC:

Latest News | House Budget Committee Democrats

Thank you. So then I went looking for why the republicans would reject those calls. first I came across this:

Senate Democrats tried 18 times to get to a conference on a House-Senate budget resolution, but Budget Chairwoman Patty Murray, D-Wash., and others faced persistent GOP objections over concerns that such a conference could create a glide path for raising the debt limit.

So then I went looking for why, and among the intense dem flack from all the usual leftist suspects I found this:

After as many as 20 days into the conference process, House Democrats would be able to force votes on controversial issues known as motions to instruct.

Some in GOP antsy to start budget conference - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com

 

[head of joaquin]

We have devolved into an Idocracy. It's both the major parties. They think that people inside the beltway believe the same things that they believe in Middle America. Term limits is a bad idea whose time has come.

What's idiotic about wanting to fund government?

There is no moral equivalency between the weirdos in the tea party and the Senate.

 

[clownboy]

What's idiotic about wanting to fund government?

There is no moral equivalency between the weirdos in the tea party and the Senate.

Nothing. What's at issue is what's always been and that's how much federal government we want and how much we want to fund. And there is no branch of government called the tea party.

 

[MaggieD]

The Reign Of Morons Is Here

Doesn't this belong in Apps and Gaming?

 

[sawdust]

What's idiotic about wanting to fund government?

There is no moral equivalency between the weirdos in the tea party and the Senate.

What part of the government do you want to fund? Would it be the CIA that is training the Syrian rebels including AlQaeda? Is it the NSA that has it's tentacles into every crevice of the world? Is it the war in Afghanistan where we are fighting for, well, never mind, we are just fighting. How about Obamaphones? The richest guy in the world is the Mexican guy who is supplying all the phones. I'm sure he needs some funding.

The government is broken. It does too much, Obamacare is some of what it does that is too much. Personally they can't shut Washington down long enough. Let this be a wake up.

 

[head of joaquin]

What part of the government do you want to fund? Would it be the CIA that is training the Syrian rebels including AlQaeda? Is it the NSA that has it's tentacles into every crevice of the world? Is it the war in Afghanistan where we are fighting for, well, never mind, we are just fighting. How about Obamaphones? The richest guy in the world is the Mexican guy who is supplying all the phones. I'm sure he needs some funding.

The government is broken. It does too much, Obamacare is some of what it does that is too much. Personally they can't shut Washington down long enough. Let this be a wake up.

Yeah see, that's the thing. You can't run government piecemeal and pick and choose which laws to fund because then nothing would get funded. Everybody wants some laws and doesn't want others.

So, we limit that fight to legislation. Once you lose that fight and a law gets passed, you should fund it. If you don't like the law, dont' act like a baby and threaten to shut down the government -- that's adolescent. Instead play by the rules, win elections and repeal the law. Or replace it.

But that's what elections and legislation are for -- you shouldn't be able to hold funding hostage after you lost a fair election or a legislative battle. If you want to play that way, then virtually no law will get funded, and that's not only undemocratic, it's stupid and childish.

 

[sawdust]

Yeah see, that's the thing. You can't run government piecemeal and pick and choose which laws to fund because then nothing would get funded. Everybody wants some laws and doesn't want others.

So, we limit that fight to legislation. Once you lose that fight and a law gets passed, you should fund it. If you don't like the law, dont' act like a baby and threaten to shut down the government -- that's adolescent. Instead play by the rules, win elections and repeal the law. Or replace it.

But that's what elections and legislation are for -- you shouldn't be able to hold funding hostage after you lost a fair election or a legislative battle. If you want to play that way, then virtually no law will get funded, and that's not only undemocratic, it's stupid and childish.

You think the tyranny of the majority justifies bad legislation. You would have been a good slaver or abolitionist. Standing up for what you believe in is never childish.

 

[Moot]

Thank you. So then I went looking for why the republicans would reject those calls. first I came across this:

"...Senate Democrats tried 18 times to get to a conference on a House-Senate budget resolution, but Budget Chairwoman Patty Murray, D-Wash., and others faced persistent GOP objections over concerns that such a conference could create a glide path for raising the debt limit..."

If raising the debt ceiling was a concern then they should have gone to conference, because now they have to raise it because they didn't go to conference to negotiate lowering it. :roll:

So then I went looking for why, and among the intense dem flack from all the usual leftist suspects I found this:

After as many as 20 days into the conference process, House Democrats would be able to force votes on controversial issues known as motions to instruct.

Some in GOP antsy to start budget conference - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com

Nothing you've posted disputes the fact that Republicans refused to go to conference to negotiate the budget. You even posted a link with Republicans saying they wanted to go conference but Boehner wouldn't allow it.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

If raising the debt ceiling was a concern then they should have gone to conference, because now they have to raise it because they didn't go to conference to negotiate lowering it. :roll:

How do you negotiate lowering the debt ceiling when running deficits?

 

[Moot]

How do you negotiate lowering the debt ceiling when running deficits?

How do you lower the deficit unless you increase revenue and lower spending? How do you create revenue unless you create jobs. How do you create jobs unless you have a jobs bill. How do you have a jobs bill unless republicans in the house pass one? How do you lower spending unless you negotiate on what to lower spending on?

How do you negotiate the budget if republicans refuse to go to conference to negotiate?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

How do you lower the deficit unless you increase revenue and lower spending? How do you create revenue unless you create jobs. How do you create jobs unless you have a jobs bill. How do you have a jobs bill unless republicans in the house pass one? How do you lower spending unless you negotiate on what to lower spending on?

How do you negotiate the budget if republicans refuse to go to conference to negotiate?

I could create jobs beginning tomorrow without government spending a dime. Declare ourselves energy independent within five years and open all federal lands and offshore open for exploration and production...

 

[Moot]

I could create jobs beginning tomorrow without government spending a dime. Declare ourselves energy independent within five years and open all federal lands and offshore open for exploration and production...

Dang, why don't you run for president?

 

[head of joaquin]

I could create jobs beginning tomorrow without government spending a dime. Declare ourselves energy independent within five years and open all federal lands and offshore open for exploration and production...

Funny thing, Carter tried to make us energy independence. Reagan declared that socialism and ended his programs to do so.

It's almost as if conservatives aren't honest about their real agenda.

 

[sawdust]

How do you lower the deficit unless you increase revenue and lower spending? How do you create revenue unless you create jobs. How do you create jobs unless you have a jobs bill. How do you have a jobs bill unless republicans in the house pass one? How do you lower spending unless you negotiate on what to lower spending on?

How do you negotiate the budget if republicans refuse to go to conference to negotiate?

Government creates jobs by creating an environment of confidence and stability in the private sector. They can also incentivize job creation with tax policy. Obama thinks that jobs are created with subsidies and government spending. When the government buys things, it does create momentary employment but not permanent employment. If they buy a bridge there are bridge building jobs until the bridge is finished.

Obama's policies are reactive to creating a healthy private sector, not proactive. I honestly believe he doesn't believe in markets or likes capitalism. A jobs bill doesn't create jobs and that's not what we need. The last jobs bill they created protected union retirement accounts and did exactly nothing to create jobs.

To Obama's credit, he did increase the amount of section 179 deductions which encourages businesses to buy machinery. Other than that, most of what Obama has done has been destructive, including the auto bail out.

 

[clownboy]

How do you lower the deficit unless you increase revenue and lower spending? How do you create revenue unless you create jobs. How do you create jobs unless you have a jobs bill. How do you have a jobs bill unless republicans in the house pass one? How do you lower spending unless you negotiate on what to lower spending on?

How do you negotiate the budget if republicans refuse to go to conference to negotiate?

Wow, you have it partly right. But it's not a republican/democrat question - it's a majority party/minority party question. Both have ways to obstruct, get their own way, and the methods available are different. The majority party sets the rules for any conference (the senate sets the rules for the budgetary conferences), the instuctions, so it's basically their playing field. The minority party, especially where they have control of the house, have refusal rights.

The deficit can easily be eliminated by making a balanced budget and sticking to it. What I think you're talking about is lowering the debt which can be lowered by spending less than is budgetted for (and maybe including extra debt payments in that balanced budget).

 

[Moot]

Funny thing, Carter tried to make us energy independence. Reagan declared that socialism and ended his programs to do so.

It's almost as if conservatives aren't honest about their real agenda.

Their agenda is to obstruct, deny and blame. Thats it, thats their plan.

 

[polgara]

How do you lower the deficit unless you increase revenue and lower spending? How do you create revenue unless you create jobs. How do you create jobs unless you have a jobs bill. How do you have a jobs bill unless republicans in the house pass one? How do you lower spending unless you negotiate on what to lower spending on?

How do you negotiate the budget if republicans refuse to go to conference to negotiate?

Greetings, Moot. :2wave:

Item 1. Agree

Item 2. Agree

Item 3. Why is a "jobs bill" necessary? I always thought businesses created jobs based on the need for workers.

Item 4. Depends on Item 3.

Item 5. Agree.

Item 6. How were budgets handled prior to this administration?

 

[clownboy]

If raising the debt ceiling was a concern then they should have gone to conference, because now they have to raise it because they didn't go to conference to negotiate lowering it. :roll:

Nothing you've posted disputes the fact that Republicans refused to go to conference to negotiate the budget. You even posted a link with Republicans saying they wanted to go conference but Boehner wouldn't allow it.

No, a couple republicans in name only wanted to go to conference, roundhells McCain was the primary leader of that handful. And you are correct, nothing I posted disputes that they refused to go to conference. But you ignore the why, why they refused to go to conference. In this venue, budget conference, the senate sets the instructions, the rules which could have forced compliance on the republicans without any compromise on the part of the dems.

 

[clownboy]

Funny thing, Carter tried to make us energy independence. Reagan declared that socialism and ended his programs to do so.

It's almost as if conservatives aren't honest about their real agenda.

No, he didn't and in fact much of his energy policy made things far, far worse. Were you even alive during that time? Carter's intentions were in the right place but his talents weren't. Great humanitarian, terrible president.

Jimmy Carter on Energy & Oil

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

There are procedures and protocol for passing bills and amendments in congress and allowing a few baby congressmen who can't get their way run rough shod over the constitution and hold the country hostage isn't the American way. Instead, it's taking this country from a super power and turning it into a banana republic.

A plague is in the house.

Congress Fails to Prevent Shutdown - WSJ.com


"In their final exchange, in the waning hours before Monday's deadline, the House passed by a 228-201 vote a short-term spending measure that would have funded agencies through mid-December while delaying for one year the law's requirement that most individuals carry health insurance or pay a penalty. It also would have limited government subsidies for lawmakers' own health-care premiums and those of their staffs. The Senate rejected it shortly afterward, 54-46"

You have a minority of one, the president, who thinks he has the right to delay some provisions of Obamacare, give waivers/exemptions to others...you see, he doesn't have that right, besides which bills do go through a certain process and the spending bills start in the house...and you can see how they voted in the house, not a minority but an obvious majority...they are a part of the co-equal branch, have their own power and are...using it, legally and as intended...only the totalitarian minded would think otherwise...