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The regulation free alternative

sbrettt

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In my opinion, this is a big problem for folks who wish to ban guns of any type, or any accesory.
The Illicit Arms Trade
This link shows black markets have already been established to meet the demand by people who either can't get firearms, or people who want guns, magazines, suppressors, ect. which have already been banned. If you banned Semi-auto rifles, and/or high-cap mags what makes you think the black markets wouldn't simply step up to meet the additional demand? If you acknowledge that they would how would you solve this problem?
 
In my opinion, this is a big problem for folks who wish to ban guns of any type, or any accesory.
The Illicit Arms Trade
This link shows black markets have already been established to meet the demand by people who either can't get firearms, or people who want guns, magazines, suppressors, ect. which have already been banned. If you banned Semi-auto rifles, and/or high-cap mags what makes you think the black markets wouldn't simply step up to meet the additional demand? If you acknowledge that they would how would you solve this problem?

they say prostitution is the oldest profession. I disagree the oldest profession is an arms dealer. it started with one cave man trading a sharp rock for a piece of meat
As long as you have a demand for guns or any other weapon there we be a market for them legally or illegally
 
they say prostitution is the oldest profession. I disagree the oldest profession is an arms dealer. it started with one cave man trading a sharp rock for a piece of meat
As long as you have a demand for guns or any other weapon there we be a market for them legally or illegally

The weird thing is, I've never heard any proponents of banning firearms even attempt to address this.
 
The weird thing is, I've never heard any proponents of banning firearms even attempt to address this.

And they won't, because then they would have to admit that bans, restrictions and background checks serve no purpose other than to provide government with the ability to claim they have it under control.
It's all about perception.
 
And they won't, because then they would have to admit that bans, restrictions and background checks serve no purpose other than to provide government with the ability to claim they have it under control.
It's all about perception.
I want to see Diane Fienstien try to answer this. (I'm pretty sure I spelled her name wrong.) :lol:
 
In my opinion, this is a big problem for folks who wish to ban guns of any type, or any accesory.
The Illicit Arms Trade
This link shows black markets have already been established to meet the demand by people who either can't get firearms, or people who want guns, magazines, suppressors, ect. which have already been banned. If you banned Semi-auto rifles, and/or high-cap mags what makes you think the black markets wouldn't simply step up to meet the additional demand? If you acknowledge that they would how would you solve this problem?

that isn't the issue. the people who lead the anti gun movement are hard core Democrat party activists who want to eliminate the power of pro gun groups that funnel money and votes to pro gun candidates. People with illegal guns aren't the ones sending money to the NRA or the NSSA or USPSA or Safari club International.
 
that isn't the issue. the people who lead the anti gun movement are hard core Democrat party activists who want to eliminate the power of pro gun groups that funnel money and votes to pro gun candidates. People with illegal guns aren't the ones sending money to the NRA or the NSSA or USPSA or Safari club International.

That's a good point, but regardless the least they could do is address this. When they advocate banning guns and mags they're advocating for no regulation, because instead of stores selling them and choosing to sell their rifles without full-auto, they're asking cartels if they want to sell them without full-auto capability. It's obvious which one they'll choose. Not to mention, the black markets might offer a suppressor with your AR, or a larger mag than 30 rounds. I'm sure you know this, but there's drum mags made for AK's. Imagine if that little **** at Sandy Hook had 70+ rounds to work with.
 
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In my opinion, this is a big problem for folks who wish to ban guns of any type, or any accesory.
The Illicit Arms Trade
This link shows black markets have already been established to meet the demand by people who either can't get firearms, or people who want guns, magazines, suppressors, ect. which have already been banned. If you banned Semi-auto rifles, and/or high-cap mags what makes you think the black markets wouldn't simply step up to meet the additional demand? If you acknowledge that they would how would you solve this problem?
The black market has, and always will exist. It can never be stopped, no matter what measured are taken, because there's no rigid structure to cripple, no figureheads to eliminate. It's just people selling things to people. Sure, you can arrest some dealers of illegal items here and there, but that's just a drop in the ocean, and nobody is deterred by police. They just become more cautious. Billions of dollars in narcotics, stolen goods, and illegal arms, amongst other things, are moved every day in this country. If anybody thinks the law can change that, they're living in a dream world.
 
The weird thing is, I've never heard any proponents of banning firearms even attempt to address this.

Please as e. They don't know an AR15 from a shotgun, a magazine from a clip, or their ads from a hole in the ground and you expect them to consider the long term effect of feel good legislation?
 
The weird thing is, I've never heard any proponents of banning firearms even attempt to address this.

Not that I'm advocating for this but European countries have had success in keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals despite any attempt to establish a black market for them, of course no system is perfect but they've had fairly good success in controlling firearms in their countries.
 
Not that I'm advocating for this but European countries have had success in keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals despite any attempt to establish a black market for them, of course no system is perfect but they've had fairly good success in controlling firearms in their countries.
And they have had great success keeping firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens as well.
 
And they have had great success keeping firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens as well.

Well ya, I'm not saying I'm advocating for it but that is a cost. You can't really have an armed society without arming criminals as well, the sheer volume and lack of controls on so many firearm sales not to mention those lost in theft mean that the US could not disarm criminals without disarming or starting a massive amount of restriction on citizens.
 
Well ya, I'm not saying I'm advocating for it but that is a cost. You can't really have an armed society without arming criminals as well, the sheer volume and lack of controls on so many firearm sales not to mention those lost in theft mean that the US could not disarm criminals without disarming or starting a massive amount of restriction on citizens.

actually the obvious fact is

restrictions on legal gun ownership impacts honest people almost completely while impacting criminals not very much if at all.

given all the evidence proving this statement true, I no longer believe that most gun control advocates are merely ignorant people hoping to deter criminals. The obvious conclusion is that most of them want to destroy the ability of honest people to own guns. THe least malignant of them believe it is a price worth paying (liberals tend to want others to pay the price for their feel good schemes)--disarming 1 million honest people is worth it if ONE violent gun crime is stopped.

the rest of them-the goal is to actually disarm honest people for reasons that have nothing to do with crime control
 
actually the obvious fact is

restrictions on legal gun ownership impacts honest people almost completely while impacting criminals not very much if at all.

given all the evidence proving this statement true, I no longer believe that most gun control advocates are merely ignorant people hoping to deter criminals. The obvious conclusion is that most of them want to destroy the ability of honest people to own guns. THe least malignant of them believe it is a price worth paying (liberals tend to want others to pay the price for their feel good schemes)--disarming 1 million honest people is worth it if ONE violent gun crime is stopped.

the rest of them-the goal is to actually disarm honest people for reasons that have nothing to do with crime control

What are those reasons?

Anyway if you look outside the United States there are plenty of examples of gun restriction on ordinary folks which also keeps guns away from criminals, even inside the United States there are places with heavy gun control but little gun crime. However I believe that has to do with other factors since given the ease of transport within this country and the freedom of movement between state borders it would not be difficult to own a weapon that was illegal in say California if you were a resident of that state and really wanted one. Heck all you would have to do is drive to Arizona or Nevada and drive back.
 
Well ya, I'm not saying I'm advocating for it but that is a cost. You can't really have an armed society without arming criminals as well, the sheer volume and lack of controls on so many firearm sales not to mention those lost in theft mean that the US could not disarm criminals without disarming or starting a massive amount of restriction on citizens.

But you can have an armed society that makes crimnals fear it.
 
What are those reasons?

Anyway if you look outside the United States there are plenty of examples of gun restriction on ordinary folks which also keeps guns away from criminals, even inside the United States there are places with heavy gun control but little gun crime. However I believe that has to do with other factors since given the ease of transport within this country and the freedom of movement between state borders it would not be difficult to own a weapon that was illegal in say California if you were a resident of that state and really wanted one. Heck all you would have to do is drive to Arizona or Nevada and drive back.
I dont know that being a proponant of a black market gun trade is what we need to be looking at doing.
Why do you care what guns people own.
 
What are those reasons?

Anyway if you look outside the United States there are plenty of examples of gun restriction on ordinary folks which also keeps guns away from criminals, even inside the United States there are places with heavy gun control but little gun crime. However I believe that has to do with other factors since given the ease of transport within this country and the freedom of movement between state borders it would not be difficult to own a weapon that was illegal in say California if you were a resident of that state and really wanted one. Heck all you would have to do is drive to Arizona or Nevada and drive back.

This has been explained to you many times

1) political attack--trying to ban guns causes pro gun groups to be on the defensive

2) philosophical reasons-some think banning guns for honest people sends a message that "violence is wrong". Some sympathize with criminals and don't think its right for them to be killed when they cannot help being what they are. Some gun haters are cowards who see guns as a totem representing the belief that personal safety is an individual duty.
 
This has been explained to you many times

1) political attack--trying to ban guns causes pro gun groups to be on the defensive

2) philosophical reasons-some think banning guns for honest people sends a message that "violence is wrong". Some sympathize with criminals and don't think its right for them to be killed when they cannot help being what they are. Some gun haters are cowards who see guns as a totem representing the belief that personal safety is an individual duty.

3) Nothing in this post addresses anything I said.
 
But you can have an armed society that makes crimnals fear it.

I dont know that being a proponant of a black market gun trade is what we need to be looking at doing.
Why do you care what guns people own.

Do criminals fear it? We have very high crime rates in many places with extremely few gun laws.

Also I'm not a proponent of it, you didn't read what I said. It said its possible, not that we should do it.
 
3) Nothing in this post addresses anything I said.

well welcome to the club. You never really take a solid stand but rather beat around the edges trying not to sound anti gun while sniping at those of us who don't worship the democrat party and its nefarious anti gun schemes. You asked why people support limiting guns to honest people and I explained why. apparently you don't even remember what you asked

your first sentence in response to me was WHAT ARE THOSE REASONS
 
Do criminals fear it? We have very high crime rates in many places with extremely few gun laws.

Also I'm not a proponent of it, you didn't read what I said. It said its possible, not that we should do it.
Criminals would fear it.
Lots of things are possible, dosent make them practical.
 
Not that I'm advocating for this but European countries have had success in keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals despite any attempt to establish a black market for them, of course no system is perfect but they've had fairly good success in controlling firearms in their countries.
Japan was failing miserably, and they are a relatively small and controllable island, right up until the point where they start handing out massive prison sentences for crimes committed with guns. Suddenly...people were no longer invested in the black market trade. We could do the same thing in this country with life sentences for violent felons using firearms in the commission of a crime.
 
Japan was failing miserably, and they are a relatively small and controllable island, right up until the point where they start handing out massive prison sentences for crimes committed with guns. Suddenly...people were no longer invested in the black market trade. We could do the same thing in this country with life sentences for violent felons using firearms in the commission of a crime.

Sounds like a plan. Life for armed robbery. I am all for it.
 
Sounds like a plan. Life for armed robbery. I am all for it.
Your typical anti-gun liberal wont be. Because they dont really care about violent crime...all they care about is targeting guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.
 
Criminals would fear it.
Lots of things are possible, dosent make them practical.

Japan was failing miserably, and they are a relatively small and controllable island, right up until the point where they start handing out massive prison sentences for crimes committed with guns. Suddenly...people were no longer invested in the black market trade. We could do the same thing in this country with life sentences for violent felons using firearms in the commission of a crime.

Like I said "it's possible" I didn't say "we should do it" I didn't say it was "practical." But there's no denying that gun control can work to reduce gun crime, if done a certain way, but again I'm not saying it should be done that way. We have that freedom and I don't support giving it up, but of course like all of you know freedoms have consequences responsibilities. And one of those consequences of our loose(when compared to other nations) gun laws is that criminals have easy access to those weapons. For example we all know that a common way weapons enter criminal hands is that they are stolen, however other nations have avoided that problem by allowing so few people to have weapons which means that break-ins don't typically result in stolen weapons because there are no weapons to steal in the first place.

That's a consequence of having the kind of gun laws that we do. But again I'm not saying that consequence is worth giving up our right to own firearms, but I cannot deny that consequence exists.
 
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