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The Reason People Hate Greta Thunberg

Felis Leo said:
Ohhh, you're doing the thing.

mister-gotcha-by-the-great-matt-bors-dont-be-a-mister-gotcha-v0-siwsfakh4l6a1.jpg
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But a person upset about climate change *can* directly control their own carbon footprint. At the very least, they can not make it worse through gratuitous stunts. Or if they won't do that, they can at least refrain from scolding others for climate change.
Felis Leo said:
Do you actually care about improving society at a systemic level,
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I'm quite sure that you would say no, given what *you* think constitutes improving society at a systemic level, which reads as extremely radical to me. I tend to be more focused on banal issues like good urbanism, housing policy, the nuts and bolts of immigration policy, and free trade. Stuff that most activists like Greta Thunberg would find extremely boring and therefore unimportant.
Felis Leo said:
or do you just want to attack everyone else who does because they are forced to participate in these systems and you can always call them out as hypocrites when they do so?
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Greta Thunberg is not "forced to participate in this system" to reduce climate change. She lives in Sweden. No one forced her to travel to Gaza. There are 8 billion humans alive today, and most of them have never been to Gaza.
 
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Mycroft said:
Yeah, that's something else little Miss Greta should be talking to Hamas about. Hamas has just as little regard for their own people as they do for Israelis.
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It's not Hamas blowing them up. And, if you were aware of the story as to why Hamas was born, you'd know that Israelis played a big part.
 
Middleground said:
It's not Hamas blowing them up. And, if you were aware of the story as to why Hamas was born, you'd know that Israelis played a big part.
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It is Hamas that is deliberately placing their own people in harm's way.
 
NolanVoyd said:
Greta isnt anti semetic.

Calling everyone who criticizes Israrael anti semitic is a really dumb lie, and hurts the cause.
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It's not just a dumb lie, it's actually a white supremacist position. Nazis think all Jews are loyal to Israel first.
 
Mycroft said:
Yeah, that's something else little Miss Greta should be talking to Hamas about. Hamas has just as little regard for their own people as they do for Israelis.
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And why is your position "we should be more like Hamas?"
 
Dans La Lune said:
Greta Thunberg has devoted her life to justice and morality, and in doing so, she exposes the immorality of people who seek injustice. She is among the best of us, and she brings attention to causes that people find uncomfortable or are ideologically committed to opposing.

People who are morally bankrupt hate a do-gooder, because they cynically believe people should be in it for themselves and not for the good of others.
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This reminds me of the MAGA faithful who truly believe the only reason the Left hates Trump is because he loves America :rolleyes:


Why is it so difficult for folks to accept that other people may think differently than them.?
 
Dans La Lune said:
Greta Thunberg has devoted her life to justice and morality, and in doing so, she exposes the immorality of people who seek injustice. She is among the best of us, and she brings attention to causes that people find uncomfortable or are ideologically committed to opposing.

People who are morally bankrupt hate a do-gooder, because they cynically believe people should be in it for themselves and not for the good of others.
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She's an ignorant narcissistic attention whore who has no expertise or abilities beyond standing in front of a camera and mugging for attention.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Do you acknowledge that it's possible to go too far in reacting to October 7th? What is too far in your book? Killing every man, woman, and child in Gaza?

The U.S. was attacked on 9/11 by the Taliban. We didn't bomb Kabul into dust.

It seems that you believe what Hamas did on October 7th justifies anything and everything the Israelis do. Is that your moral position?
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The Taliban weren't cowards like Hamas and didn't hide behind civilians.
 
JMB1911A1 said:
The Taliban weren't cowards like Hamas and didn't hide behind civilians.
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Understandable why they should be praised since they enjoy putting women in their places and are killing gay people. Admirable people.
 
trumptman said:
She's an ignorant narcissistic attention whore who has no expertise or abilities beyond standing in front of a camera and mugging for attention.
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Are we still talking about Greta, the Kardashians, or someone on OnlyFans? ;)
 
Mycroft said:
That's not my position.
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Yes it is. Hamas has no regard for the innocent lives in Gaza, neither does Israel, and neither do you. Your reaction to our pointing out the myriad horrors inflicted by the IDF is "well people die in war." Funny, Hamas says the same thing about Israeli civilians. You have a lot in common.
 
JMB1911A1 said:
Are we still talking about Greta, the Kardashians, or someone on OnlyFans? ;)
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In this thread, Greta.

If you want to start a thread on the others then have at it.
 
trumptman said:
She's an ignorant narcissistic attention whore who has no expertise or abilities beyond standing in front of a camera and mugging for attention.
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Isn’t that literally every political activist? Their goal is to bring public attention to the issues they care about. What makes her so worthy of your ire?
 
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The extremists despise anyone who considers Palestinian civilians human.

Unless you want all Palestinians dead, you will be considered a terrorist supporter.

Even doctors and surgeons and other medical staff who have worked all over the world on multiple assignments to assist vulnerable people are not immune from the criticism and lies about their characters if they also go to Gaza.
 
It's not a stunt when others have died attempting to do the same thing.

They would have been apprehensive and worried getting on that boat but their end goal would have been to deliver the aid they were carrying.
 
Gatsby said:
But a person upset about climate change *can* directly control their own carbon footprint. At the very least, they can not make it worse through gratuitous stunts. Or if they won't do that, they can at least refrain from scolding others for climate change.
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But that is inane. We are talking about global climate change. Individual acts of self-denial are useless. To draw an analogy, this would be like the two of us debating in the 1850s that the proper to answer to ending slavery would be convincing individual slave owners granting manumission to their slaves instead of total abolition and granting citizenship to the slaves. The first route puts the onus on individuals to create individual solutions to a systemic problem. The second is a systemic solution to a systemic problem, and actually achieves the desired goal despite the disruptions.

Gatsby said:
I'm quite sure that you would say no, given what *you* think constitutes improving society at a systemic level, which reads as extremely radical to me. I tend to be more focused on banal issues like good urbanism, housing policy, the nuts and bolts of immigration policy, and free trade. Stuff that most activists like Greta Thunberg would find extremely boring and therefore unimportant.
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I want nuclear energy, solar and wind power to replace our carbon-based fuel network, and rebuilding American infrastructure to enable 15 minute cities and mass public transportation of the kind one finds in Japan, along with mass-construction of housing by the government. These are extreme solutions, but I think they will inure to the American people's benefit.

Gatsby said:
Greta Thunberg is not "forced to participate in this system" to reduce climate change. She lives in Sweden. No one forced her to travel to Gaza. There are 8 billion humans alive today, and most of them have never been to Gaza.
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She is drawing attention to the plight of people who are trapped by the Israelis in Gaza and who are being murdered by the Israeli military in Gaza by the tens of thousands. Perhaps that elicits and eye roll and a smirk from you, but I think it is valid to use whatever platform or social influence one has to draw attention to mass atrocities and to shift public sentiment against the government committing the atrocities, especially since Israel is so dependent on outside trade, finance and military support. A Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign against Israel would be far more effective than the one launched against Apartheid South Africa, since South Africa was and is mostly self-sufficient when it comes to food and fuel, and Israel is most certainly not and is heavily reliant on imports.
 
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Felis Leo said:
But that is inane. We are talking about global climate change. Individual acts of self-denial are useless. To draw an analogy, this would be like the two of us debating in the 1850s that the proper to answer to ending slavery would be convincing individual slave owners granting manumission to their slaves instead of total abolition and granting citizenship to the slaves. The first route puts the onus on individuals to create individual solutions to a systemic problem. The second is a systemic solution to a systemic problem, and actually achieves the desired goal despite the disruptions.
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I think the better analogy would be if both of us lived in 1850 and agreed that ending slavery was a good goal and disagreed how to achieve it...but one of us actually owned slaves. Yes, "individual acts of self-denial" won't solve the systemic problem, but not owning slaves would be table stakes for participating in a discussion on how best to end slavery. A slaveowner who claimed to be an abolitionist but wanted a personal exemption because he was doing very important things and, regrettably, couldn't be bothered to practice what he preaches...well, best-case scenario he's an out-of-touch hypocrite.
Felis Leo said:
She is drawing attention to the plight of people who are trapped by the Israelis in Gaza and who are being murdered by the Israeli military in Gaza by the tens of thousands. Perhaps that elicits and eye roll and a smirk from you, but I think it is valid to use whatever platform or social influence one has to draw attention to mass atrocities and to shift public sentiment against the government committing the atrocities, especially since Israel is so dependent on outside trade, finance and military support. A Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign against Israel would be far more effective than the one launched against Apartheid South Africa, since South Africa was and is mostly self-sufficient when it comes to food and fuel, and Israel is most certainly not and is heavily reliant on imports.
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I guess my question is why, specifically, it needs to be Greta Thunberg doing that, as opposed to any other generic left-wing omnicause activist. Does a 22-year-old Swedish girl known for climate change activism bring an important new perspective to the conversation around this issue?

Like I said...she's an adult, she can do what she wants. It's just puzzling to me 1) why anyone would care that yet another white college kid from the West thinks they've figured out the solution to peace in the Middle East, and 2) why anyone would continue listening to her about the thing she's best known for, when she pulls stunts that undermine her credibility on that topic specifically.
 
Gatsby said:
I think the better analogy would be if both of us lived in 1850 and agreed that ending slavery was a good goal and disagreed how to achieve it...but one of us actually owned slaves. Yes, "individual acts of self-denial" won't solve the systemic problem, but not owning slaves would be table stakes for participating in a discussion on how best to end slavery. A slaveowner who claimed to be an abolitionist but wanted a personal exemption because he was doing very important things and, regrettably, couldn't be bothered to practice what he preaches...well, best-case scenario he's an out-of-touch hypocrite.
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That really raises the question: Which climate change activists either individually or organizationally do you respect?

Because if you cannot name any or indicate why your respect them, I think it is fair to say that you do not care about this issue except to find ways to stymie any attempts to bring about change. And I think having a conversation as to why you are against government action to stop crises, like mitigating climate change or stopping the Gaza genocide would be a far more interesting conversation, rather than the individual behavior of any given climate change activists.

Gatsby said:
I guess my question is why, specifically, it needs to be Greta Thunberg doing that, as opposed to any other generic left-wing omnicause activist. Does a 22-year-old Swedish girl known for climate change activism bring an important new perspective to the conversation around this issue?
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Why would that matter? People with social cache often lend it to draw attention to crises. Celebrities, musicians, public intellectuals, famous influencers, etc. draw public attention to various social causes all the time. Most of the time, they are not subject matter experts on the crisis at hand. After all, did George Harrison have deep ties and a doctoral understanding of the complexities of Bangladesh that disqualified him from starting a benefit concert for Bangladesh during the genocidal campaign Pakistan waged against them during their war for independence and their famine? No. Did it matter? I mean, perhaps it caused you to sneer (I do not know how old you were in 1971), but I am not sure too many Bangladeshis were upset by this.

Gatsby said:
Like I said...she's an adult, she can do what she wants. It's just puzzling to me 1) why anyone would care that yet another white college kid from the West thinks they've figured out the solution to peace in the Middle East, and 2) why anyone would continue listening to her about the thing she's best known for, when she pulls stunts that undermine her credibility on that topic specifically.
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Has she claimed she has the solution for peace in the Middle East? As far as I am aware she just wants a cease fire and for Israel to stop slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian men, women and children, and for aid to be delivered to the Gazans who are imprisoned by Israel. Maybe there is more to it than that. But even if she is so conceited that she thinks she has all the answers, I do not see why her concerns should be ignored when they seem to mirror the growing sentiments of most people both in Europe and the United States, a majority of whom no longer support Israel.
 
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